Quantcast

Gun for full-time RVing.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by KenW., Mar 11, 2019.

  1. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,082
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    My Dad kept his CCW du jour on him, a S&W Model 65 by the bed, and a Winchester Model 12 stuffed with buckshot tucked away handy in his RV when he made his annual trips from TX to MN and WI to see friends and family. He sold the RV, so now we have to go see him in TX.
    He is a retired LEO also, both PD and US Marshals Office.

    Alaska is, too.
     
    Armored farmer and Thelma_Lou like this.
  2. Thelma_Lou

    Thelma_Lou Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    S&W Model 19 or the 66 if you need a shorter barrel.
     
  3. rfscjeep

    rfscjeep Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    28
    I realize your question is on "tactical shotguns" however, I would use caution with regards to a loaded long gun in a RV when parked. In Wisconsin & Minnesota your CCW permits only cover Handguns in a vehicle. Unless the RV is hooked up on a campsite & up on blocks (not readily movable) it's most likely would be considered a vehicle and not a home. State laws on having a loaded (long) gun in a stationary vehicle would apply.
     
    Armored farmer likes this.
  4. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    3,871
    Location:
    Somewhere in WA.
    We spent several winters in the SW in an RV. We live in WA. I chose to carry a pistol with a mag less than 10 rounds (Sig P-239). I just pay close attention to how that pistol had to be secured when I was on the road. CA was the worst but it can be done. In states where my carry permit was honored I carried it. Where it wasn't I left it secured in the RV when I left it. We boon docked a lot along the border and I chose a pistol because I like to hike in the back country.

    If I remember correctly all of the western states I was in didn't have any restrictions on firearms in RV's in camp if they were legal in that state, even CA.

    I never had a problem and never expected any problems because I was following the law to the letter. Get a copy of this publication and keep it in your RV.

    https://www.amazon.com/Travelers-Gu...578fb0dcf1adc727f3bde&camp=1789&creative=9325

    The night before you travel across a state line read it and secure your firearm to meet the state law. It's a PIA but you will probably know more about the law than the trooper that pulls you over. Also be aware that in some states your license plate # will read out your carry permit to a trooper when they run your plate. That's probably a good thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
    Armored farmer likes this.
  5. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    3,871
    Location:
    Somewhere in WA.
    I think that's correct.
     
  6. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    3,871
    Location:
    Somewhere in WA.
    Quartzsite is a freakin zoo in the winter months because there is so much BLM land there and close to CA. They bring their ATV's and party hardy. Head on down to the southern border if you want some peace. Lots of BLM down there. Escapee parks are generally pretty nice if you want hook ups. NM has some really nice state parks with hook ups also.
     
  7. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Johnson County Texas
    Being a retired LEO and former U.S. Marshall your Dad had nothing to worry about unlike us plebes!
     
  8. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,082
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    I only mentioned it because the OP mentioned he was retired LE, and like my Dad, is covered under LEOSA. He might have unloaded the shotgun while underway, not sure about that.
     
  9. 1MoreFord

    1MoreFord Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    235
    Location:
    Central Arkansas
    As I understand things No handguns are allowed to be transported through Canada regardless of barrel length. AFAIK the 4.2" length is only for legality for Canadian citizens under their strict laws.

    I suggest a bit more research.
     
    Armored farmer and LRDGCO like this.
  10. Obturation

    Obturation Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    Messages:
    336
    Location:
    Northern illinois
    Henry mares leg. Its a pistol and can be very accurate and fast.mossberg 500 is a great choice but im no expert on state laws and such.
     
  11. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,163
    Location:
    DFW (formerly Brazos County), Texas
    Since this is Legal, it seems germane to point out that there are issues related to having no fixed permanent address.

    Some are mundane, vehicle registration, inspections, driver's licensing, insurance, etc. And, for many driver's licenses, there are often residency requirements of nn weeks to apply.

    There's the rather thorny issues in 18 USC 922, that it uses a definition of "residency" to mean the State you intend to reside within.

    And both of those somewhat fly in the face of the desire to "live in the next place the road takes me."

    Said concept not being one addressed by lawmakers in any concrete sort of way, probably as just not imagined.

    If I remember it correctly (and incorrectly is entirely possible) the federal definition of residency is only linked to intent, not to longevity. So, it's not how many days or weeks (although that might matter for State issues), but that you mean to. Which is why you can live in two houses, and be resident in either, for federal purposes--as in buying a firearm and filling in the 4473.
     
  12. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,219
    Location:
    Virginia
    In connection with "full time RVing," we should talk about purchase of guns as well as possession. The way the federal law is set up (the Form 4473, etc.), you must be a resident of a state in order to purchase a gun. You can be a resident of more than one state (for example, having a summer home in another state), but you cannot be a resident of no state and still buy a gun. This is a problem for nomads (RVers) as well as Americans permanently living overseas (expatriates). Therefore, whatever you do, it might be wise to maintain a base (by owning a home, renting,etc.) in a given state.
     
    rodregier likes this.
  13. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    4,876
    Location:
    Plano, Texas
    "Maintaining a base.." or "Owning or renting" do not by themselves meet the requirements of Federal law.
    A person must actually RESIDE in a state with the intention of making it their home.
    Where your drivers license is issued, where you vote, pay taxes, etc is immaterial.

    ATF Ruling on "State of Residence": https://www.atf.gov/file/55496/download
    When you fill out the form 4473 you'll be required to list your current address and state of residence.

    A private mail box at the UPS Store or a post office box ain't gonna cut it. Neither would any physical address where you do not actually reside.
     
    rodregier likes this.
  14. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,219
    Location:
    Virginia
    I think we are on the same page here. Not having residency in a state can be a problem for RVers as well as expatriates. This is what I was trying to point out.

    However, "residency" (intent) can be established by a whole bunch of different factors, including the ones that you mentioned. As a practical matter a driver's license listing a physical address would satisfy most sellers. Maybe a utility bill as a secondary proof of residency.
     
  15. USAF-ORF

    USAF-ORF Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    NEB/GSoTX Snowbird
    Years ago one of my TSgt was transferring from TX to AK. He had a nice collection of firearms that Canada would not allow him to pass through with. He had considered UPS but he also had lots of ammo. So he took a Several Day (drive your car on) ferry from Washington to Alaska. I believe it goes both ways. May be a option for you.
     
  16. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    4,876
    Location:
    Plano, Texas
    True, but you actually have to live at the address you write on the Form 4473.

    The buyer must list his current residence address. If his government issued photo ID does not show that address, then another government issued document showing the buyers name and that current address may be used.

    It's not about satisfying the seller by having the DL match the address, its about the Federal felony you commit if you use an address where you are not currently living. When a buyer/transferee signs the 4473 they are certifying under penalty of law that their answers are "true, correct and complete". Those that actually read the instructions and the statements on those forms would know that....but no one bothers to read the instructions to 10a & 10b either.

    About once a month someone will try and fill out a 4473 and say " I know the paperwork has to match my DL, so I'll use my old address"...…….I then scream NO GUN FOR YOU! in my head while pointing out the felony Mr Customer was about to commit. I then tell them what documents they can use to show current address. Sometimes they have to come back later.


    Only if issued by a government. Bills from a private business do not count.
     
  17. rfscjeep

    rfscjeep Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    28
    In the context of a RV lifestyle of take a "year and travel the USA" or that of a Over the Road trucker. Once you have established a "Home base" within the state you currently reside; that physical address listed on your DL, vehicle registration, insurance card, voter registration, where your mail is collected, etc. now becomes your "Home" or "State of Residence". Travel from there would be "temporary" as long as you intend to return. In this context that would be the address used on Form 4473, not the address of where your RV is parked at today.
     
  18. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    4,876
    Location:
    Plano, Texas
    Not according to ATF.
    ATF doesn't care where your "home base" is, just where you actually reside.
    If you are taking a year and traveling the USA, you aren't making a home. "Home base" is not mentioned in that ATF Ruling I linked to above.
     
  19. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    6,606
    Location:
    West of the Big Muddy, East of the Rockies and Nor
    Well this has strayed from the original question but has opened another one.

    The house is paid off so we are retiring and hitting the Open Road in our new R.V. traveling around the country and spending extended time visiting the kids that live in different States.

    All our banking and bill paying is done over wireless internet and with the security system in our home we are not worried about it. Drivers License address remains the same. Coming back to the house is not so much of a need but rather a want.

    So for the purpose of the BATF for buying a firearm how many days out of the year do I need to return and live in my house to qualify being a resident of that State?
     
  20. rfscjeep

    rfscjeep Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    28
    ATF does not mention time limit.
    Quote's from https://www.atf.gov/file/55496/download
    " A person’s “State of residence” is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 478.11 as “the State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a - 2 - State with the intention of making a home in that State.” Ownership of a home or land within a given State is not sufficient, by itself, to establish a State of residence. However, ownership of a home or land within a particular State is not required to establish presence and intent to make a home in that State. Furthermore, temporary travel, such as short-term stays, vacations, or other transient acts in a State are not sufficient to establish a State of residence because the individual demonstrates no intention of making a home in that State."
    Note the last sentence that says basically, when you travel somewhere else other than your home you can't claim to be a resident of that place if you have no intent of making it your home.

    A couple paragraphs later it does a better job of explaining intention. Note the first 4 words "The same reasoning applies..."
    "The same reasoning applies to citizens of the United States who reside temporarily outside of the country for extended periods of time, but who also maintain residency in a particular State. Where a citizen temporarily resides outside of the country, but also has the intention of making a home in a particular State, the citizen is a resident of the State during the time he or she actually resides in that State. In acquiring a firearm, the individual must - 3 - demonstrate to the transferor-licensee that he or she is a resident of the State by presenting valid identification documents".

    "Held, for the purpose of acquiring firearms under the Gun Control Act of 1968, a United States citizen who temporarily resides in a foreign country, but who also demonstrates the intention of making a home in a particular State, is a resident of the State during the time period he or she actually resides in that State."

    "Held further, the intention of making a home in a State must be demonstrated to a Federal firearms licensee by presenting valid identification documents. Such documents include, but are not limited to, driver’s licenses, voter registration, tax records, or vehicle registration."
     
  21. jstert

    jstert Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2013
    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    ne and sw
    i used to travel alot by car up and down the east coast and far west. in general, most states prohibit loaded long guns in motor vehicles under fish and game statutes. to enjoy widest legal acceptance in a variety of states i would avoid all tactical appearing long guns and semiautomatic handguns. learn to love old school shotguns, rimfire rifles and handguns, revolvers, and centerfire lever-or bolt-action only rifles, all appearing to be intended for target and hunting puposes. no mags over ten rounds. get va, fl and ut ccw permits for wide coverage. when transiting unfree states stop only to gas up and stay on the turnpikes, and have all firearms secured and unloaded. avoid nyc entirely and give northeast leo no excuse for a traffic stop. if going to canada leave handguns behind and limit long guns to 1-2 only. if traveling armed stay out of military bases even if enjoy access. regularly check http://www.handgunlaw.us/ for latest rules and follow them.
     
  22. rfscjeep

    rfscjeep Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    28
    Your home or "home base" is the place where you have established your home and intend to return to and continue to live when your done traveling.
    Form 4473 instructions https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
    "Question 2. Current Residence Address: A rural route (RR) may be accepted provided the transferee/buyer lives in a State or locality where it is considered a legal residence address. County and Parish are one and the same.
    If the transferee/buyer is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty, his/her State of residence is the State in which his/her permanent duty station is located. If the service member is acquiring a firearm in a State where his/her permanent duty station is located, but resides in a different State, the transferee/buyer must list both his/her permanent duty station address and his/her residence address in response to question 2. If the transferee/buyer has two States of residence, the transferee/buyer should list his current residence address in response to question 2. (e.g., if the transferee/buyer is purchasing a firearm while staying at his/her weekend home in State X, he/she should list the address in State X in response to question 2.)"
    My home or "Current Residence" is where I live, not the campground/motel room I stay in temporary sleeping in while working/traveling in another city.
     
  23. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    6,606
    Location:
    West of the Big Muddy, East of the Rockies and Nor
    This residency definination / requirement is outdated and discriminatory. It clearly prohibits purchasing a firearm by anyone that doesn’t live in a government approved residence.

    It is so vague as to be almost meaningless.

    For example I know people who travel in R.V.’s that own a small piece of land that only has a power pole and box to plug into, a place to park and a mailbox on the road. Does a power pole & electric meter prove residency to the BATF?

    Why should homeless people be prohibited from buying a gun? I have been reading articles about how the high cost of renting is forcing people to live in their cars or on the streets. If anything their need for self-defense is greater.

    I wonder if this has ever be challenged in Court and how far it got?
     
  24. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,163
    Location:
    DFW (formerly Brazos County), Texas
    Well, if a person has no place of residence, how can they be brought to trial in the jurisdiction they reside within?

    By the same token, who represents those without residence? Representaion is defined by way of geography.
     
  25. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    4,876
    Location:
    Plano, Texas
    Not exactly.
    ATF doesn't give a whit about where you intend to return, but where you actually are making your home at the moment you fill out that Form 4473.

    Which is entirely different than the situation you describe above: "...In the context of a RV lifestyle of take a "year and travel the USA" or that of a Over the Road trucker...."
    A year is not temporary.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice