Quantcast

Gun for my Daughter?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by josmund, Aug 31, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. josmund

    josmund Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Kansas
    My 20 year old Daughter has a new place at college. O'l Dad visited last week and I'm a little uncomfortable with the safety standards. ( freestanding house, two 20 yr. old girls, college neighborhood ).

    I'm thinking some personal protection is in order. She has long gun experience and has passed Hunters Safety classes. A handgun will be new. I'm thinking a revolver. Thoughts on which one? Any other advice?
     
  2. downunderhunter

    downunderhunter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    Australia
    I can't help you with gun selection, but I can recommend that you also line up some training and make sure she is across all local laws relating to SD. Good on you for getting the ball rolling to sort it out.
     
  3. Black Knight

    Black Knight Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,440
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    One other thing you may consider is a good sized dog. A well trained protective dog can be worth much more than a gun. The dog can be a good alarm system, defensive weapon if needed, and a casual companion when out and about. A good defensive handgun is always a boost but will she be able to keep it with her or will it stay in her home? Having done security around a college campus I imagine she will only be able to keep it at home. The closer she is to the campus the higher the likelyhood of a break-in. Should this happen could the culprit steal the gun? Could the culprit use it against her? A good dog may aleviate this situation. Consider all your options.
     
  4. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,963
    Location:
    Central PA
    You know your daughter. Is she prepared to think defensively and does she have the mindset to recognize and respond to a threat and point and fire a gun at someone if she needs to? Is she prepared to be responsible for that firearm, in the socially tumultuous circumstances of college life?

    Does she know and understand self-defense law, and when a gun is NOT an appropriate response?

    Do you feel that giving her a handgun is giving her a tool she's able to use effectively?

    Are there other options (cans of OC spray, for example, upgraded and automatic locks, a good security system, adequate lighting, maybe a dog, etc.) that you could help provide which would be more generally conducive to security?

    Can you get her some training in use of lethal force matters, and in handgun skills?

    Which gun really doesn't even matter at this point. Dozens of different models and types would all be just fine -- IF she's prepared to use them appropriately and well.
     
  5. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    And they're off.....

    First, Id sit down with your daughter & talk to her about what she wants, needs or will/can carry. ;)
    Firearms are not props, fashion or political statements, accessories or add-ons. They are lethal weapons that can injury or kill someone. :uhoh:
    If your daughter is unwilling or unable to deploy lethal or deadly force, then no gun or weapon will help her in a critical incident.
    She will need to choose what weapon(gun, Taser, OC spray, impact weapon, etc) she will carry then learn how to store it, carry it, clean it & use it.
    There are no easy answers. What one person(young or old, male female whatever) needs or can use, another person may choose a different weapon.
    You might want to advise her & her room/house mate to get a C2 Taser or maybe some chemical spray(OC or pepper). This can help them become more tactically aware & responsive before they(or your child) gets a loaded gun.
    Make sure she understands the local & state gun laws/lethal force statues.
    Formal classes from a respected program(not a gun show attendee in a parking lot or your barber's cousin who knew a ex state trooper, :rolleyes:).
    Have her keep any books, magazines, DVDs, course records, receipts etc to later document her skill training. It may come up later in a court action or investigation but it may not.
    As the old saying goes: if it's not written down then it didn't happen. :D

    As for guns, Id suggest a simple 5/6/7 round stainless steel revolver in .38spl or .357magnum. My first handgun in 1993 was a 5 shot .357magnum SP101(DA only). A spurless or DA only format would be ideal if you can find it. JG Sales of AZ had a few police trade in DAO S&W model 64s(a few NYPD contract runs).
    DA only revolvers are safe, easy to clean and she can avoid bogus claims or cocking a hammer/shooting reckless(panic). Many US police agencies used DA only type K frame revolvers for decades.
    Another choice is the Ruger GP100 .357magnum or the smaller SP101 series.
    These robust, well engineered revolvers can last for years. After market grips & even red laser aimers are available for the models. :D

    Have her use only factory made, police type handgun rounds. No reloads or hand loads for home defense or CCW.
    Teach her to clean & check the weapon(s) too. The revolver shouldn't sit in a drawer or purse for years and not be checked/cleaned.

    See; www.nra.org www.gunvideo.com www.brownells.com www.handgunlaw.us www.ruger.com www.taser.com www.saberred.com www.qmuniforms.com www.galls.com www.policehq.com .
     
  6. gazpacho

    gazpacho Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,167
    Unless she has written permission from the university, she will NOT be able to carry on campus. Breaking that law is a federal offense (I think).

    I would highly second the recommendation for a Taser (brand name). Check to see if she can carry that on campus, as I have heard of instances that it was allowed. Ditto for CS spray.

    For at home, shotgun with #4 buck. Get one with a flashlight mount.

    What ever you get for your daughter, make sure the housemate is also good/compliant/trained with it.

    For a handgun, many a Smith model 10
     
  7. josmund

    josmund Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Kansas
    All of the above are very valid and thought provoking points.

    After reading the post, I will look at non lethal options for home protection. She is not ready for the responsibility at this stage of her life.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  8. z7

    z7 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,118
    A good dog can go a long way and campus regulations are a pain, but I will chime in from a little personal experience.
    When my wife (girlfriend at the time) moved out to college her dad gave her a smith and Wesson revolver, nice little pocket 38 special. He had the trigger polished and it was a pleasure to shoot. Problem was she couldn't get any pattern at all. She and I would go shoot and we sent several hundred rounds down range with that little gun over a few years and she could put all 5 on a silhouette from 7 yards, but they were all over the place. This was with a good instructor (family friend is a us marshal firearms instructor).

    I eventually came to believe it was the long trigger pull. I let her try my glock 23 and that 7yard group was a paper plate. She now has a glock 27.

    From that I learned you may need to try several ideas and that a revolver may not work for everyone. An autoloader is just as safe, or dangerous to the operator depending on familiarity, respect and discipline. They are all tools, its up to the user to determine how it is used
     
  9. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,963
    Location:
    Central PA
    No, not a federal law violation. COULD be a state law violation, depending on the state.

    Very well would be a University policy violation that could get her kicked out of school, if discovered.
     
  10. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,963
    Location:
    Central PA
    Sounds like a good idea.

    We all love guns here. We're mostly very defensive, use-of-force minded. But you want to help your daughter, not hand her a potential problem that she's just not going to be prepared to use.

    If nothing else, consider that having a handgun locked in a drawer back in a bedroom is probably almost zero help in 99% of situations in which a young lady might find herself in danger.

    The greatest help you could really give a college gal is a head for "situational awareness" and mindful defensive thinking. There are dangers in college, especially to women, but the best defense is avoiding certain kinds of situations. You CAN help her, and get help for her, to stay safe. And those aren't shooting problems.
     
  11. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    Post #8, revolvers & semi autos.....

    I disagree with post #8.
    Id say a DA or DA only revolver is safer or better than a semi auto pistol for a new or entry level shooter.
    Yes, a new gun owner could learn to use & fire a pistol, but a simple, stainless 5/6/7 round .38/.357 revolver is good to learn the basics.
    After a few months or maybe a year or 2 then you can buy a semi auto like a M&P or Glock. ;)

    Semi auto pistols are far better than revolvers for most uses but a J frame revolver or K/L frame size will do just fine.
    Many cops, security officers & CCW license holders used .357magnum or .38spl guns for decades.

    I'd add that to advise her to get some OC spray or a C2 Taser is smart. The X2 version is good too, for multiple subjects but with a retail price of about $1200.00, it's not for everyone or the budget. :uhoh:
    Most US law enforcement agencies use the X26 Taser. The C or civilian version is okay, but for the value & the design, Id choose the C2. Id also suggest a bright color like red or yellow so the women can clearly see it & it's not mistaken for a loaded firearm. :uhoh:
    And yes, those incidents do occur. A female police officer drew & fired her sidearm by mistake :eek: mixing it up with her issued Taser EDW(electric discharge weapon).
    Another corrections officer in Texas did the same thing during a violent struggle with a prisoner during a transfer. He rolled on his side, drew his sidearm instead of his X26 Taser, shooting the prisoner in the lower torso.

    As for OC sprays, Id advise buying the Zarc Vexor microspin(check local laws/ordinances) or the Saber Green. Vexor is used by many federal state & local PDs & corrections with great results. I own a Mark IV size for security posts.
    DO NOT buy the OC Vexor with the yellow safety feature. It's difficult to operate quickly & to use it one-handed or with gloves takes effort. :mad:
    The Mark III size is fine for most defense uses. The Fox Labs Mean Green is great. It's strong & includes a green dye to mark the attacker. I got the cone style from www.copsplus.com . They offer many products & cases/gear. The S/H is fast & the prices are good. :)
    I was looking for Saber Green Crossfire(mark III) but the firm does not sell Saber Green Crossfire to single customers, only PDs-corrections or retailers.

    A decent white-light or compact defense type light could help her too. I like the new Fenix PD-35. It's very strong & can offer different stages. I like that it includes the strobe feature to distract-disorient a violent subject. I may get a Fenix PD-35 soon. I owned a PD32 series which was okay for most uses. I lost it during a business trip to western PA in Nov/2013, :( . Surefire, Streamlight, Fenix, 5.11 Tactical. They market different styles & power levels.
    A good white-light is a "EDC" item many armed professionals or CCW permit holders own, ;) .
     
  12. Sunray

    Sunray Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    11,573
    Location:
    London, Ont.
    "...is a federal offense..." Get her kicked out of nothing else.
    You need to take her shopping. For both the iron and the lessons. The firearm must fit her hand and suit her. Plus she'll require CCW and shooting lessons. Hunter's Safety has nothing to do with it.
    Doesn't have to be a big dog. Little dogs all think they're pit bulls and criminal tend to be afraid of dogs.
     
  13. josmund

    josmund Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Kansas
  14. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    Simplisafe.com Ruger/Kimber OC sprays.....

    One good resource is www.Simplisafe.com . If your daughter & room-mate can install a home security & CCTV system, Id do it. See the landlord or property manager first to make sure repairs/changes/upgrades/etc aren't a problem with the lease-renter agreement. ;)
    New security systems can be used with smart phones & tablets. I don't use Simplisafe.com but a few members on the forum gave it high marks.
    I'd add that you or your daughter can also get pro-active & be aware of the local LE patrol zone(sector), non-emergency contact #s, fire/EMTs, the nearest medical center/ER/urgent care/animal control.
    Some campus public safety offices or law enforcement units have "mutual aid agreements" or "concurrent jurisdictions" with the city or town's PD/county police force.
    When I lived in Charlottesville VA in the early 1990s, the city PD had a arrangement with the University of Virginia to allow some officers to patrol both areas & UVA sworn officers could answer calls for service in certain areas.
    To learn where or if any registered sex offenders or parolees are currently living near the property is smart. There are websites, smart phone apps & soc media designed for this specific purpose. ;)
    My state's LE agency has links directly to this information & it's open source.
    When I last checked it, it was shocking how many registered sex offenders were near my apt complex. :eek:
    Id close by saying a dog would be good. Convicted felons often say a barking dog or knowing a large dog may be in the home makes them think twice. A pet will help her learn responsibility & offer companionship too. :D

    RS
     
  15. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    8,203
    Location:
    WNY
    www.corneredcat.com for reasonable SD advice. The site will lead one into a great discussion of gun choices.

    Even though she can't carry on campus, it is not a bad idea to have a firearm in private housing. Of course, training, mindset, etc. are very important.

    Best thing for young women on campus - SD courses, be ready to fight, avoid frat and athletic team social events, substance abuse.
     
  16. mac66

    mac66 Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,004
    Location:
    Michigan
    Apparently no one actually bothers to read this stuff so I am deleting my comments. I will say that if the OP decides to get his daughter a firearm it should be something she is comfortable, confident and competent in shooting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  17. MikeRiggins87

    MikeRiggins87 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    I would buy her a Glock 42 with hollowpoints. Revolvers are out of date in my opinion.
     
  18. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,768
    Location:
    Central Fla
    Having a weapon for protection is one thing. Having the mind set to kill somebody is a horse of another color!
     
  19. Schutzen

    Schutzen Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    Far Western Kentucky
    SD firearms for a 20 years old are real issue. I would not even consider a handgun. Most if not all states require you to be 21 years of age to CCW.. By al means begin teaching your daughter about handguns and handgun marksmanship, but wait until she is over 21 to get her a handgun.

    As others have brought up, if she is in University Housing, it is very likely she will be prohibited from keep a firearm in her residence. If she lives in private/commercial housing, that is a different situation.

    My choice for the year until she turns 21 would be a 20 gauge youth model shotgun with#4 buckshot. A youth model is short enough to be reasonably maneuverable inside and is a very effective SD firearm. If she is tall enough to reach it, and excellent place to store her shotgun is on rubber coated hooks screwed into the wall above the inside of a closet door. It is readily accessible and very unlikely to be discovered by anyone.

    I would also advise you to have her take the NRA course, "Refuse to be a Victim." Yes, it does deal with firearms, but it also addresses mindset and awareness.
     
  20. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    2,147
    Location:
    MN
    Well, given that she's 20, she couldn't get a CCW permit anyway, and even if she did have one, if it's not against the law to carry on a college campus where she is at, it is almost definitely a violation of school policy that can get her expelled.

    Most school policies will also ban TASERs, but often allow defensive sprays.
     
  21. CMC

    CMC Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    224
    Location:
    Florida
    A pocket knive is something she can have with her at all times , Benchmade makes a small Griptilian with pink handles, I got my 19 year old grandaugther one and she loved it.
    For Home a small aluminum baseball bat will work.
    As far as handguns a small 22 like a Ruger or a Walther will be a good place to start and she can shoot with you when she comes home.
     
  22. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    13,304
    I'd pass on that. If she needs to use it she doesn't need to be distracted by the strobe and alarm. Any criminal who's spent any amount of time in jails or prisons will be used to the strobes and alarms in there, and won't be deterred. Stick with proven OC sprays like those from Fox Labs and Sabre Red.
     
  23. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    8,202

    ^^^This. Most 20 year old girls, living in a house with others, who allow other college age/mentality people to enter the house, IMHO, would be better off with pepper spray or a dog than a new firearm. It's been 40 years since I went to college, but my youngest son is still there. Theft of any personal item of any value is still a big risk, even when you know and trust your roommates. Not all college kids are as adult as they think. For the most part, she would not be able to carry the weapon to and from classes. My son is a RA and on the "who's at risk" board. Females to and from class are accosted the most. They suggest pepper spray.

    But as others have said, you know your daughter and her capabilities with a firearm. Using a weapon for SD is different than just passing hunter's safety. Taking her to the range on weekends home and shooting handgun will be a great way to see what her abilities are and to instill confidence and proficiency. After that I might consider some sort of firearm.
     
  24. AverajeJo

    AverajeJo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    49
    Get her some KravMaga classes. She will kill him even if he has a gun and she does not. :0)
     
  25. dmurdach

    dmurdach Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Du Quoin, IL
    I've got to add my $.02 here. I think a dog is a great deterent/alarm/protector, but they are also a very big responsibility and can be a big long term cost. Raising an animal is a big responsibility as well and one should only get one if you are financially prepared and have the time to care for it.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice