Gun Gift

[Bobson]

I know this question has been asked a thousand times in as many different ways...

I have a young brother in law who I’m particularly proud of. He’s bucked the familial trend and has made some excellent choices about his future. My wife and I want to gift him with a firearm. He’s 18, and old enough to buy one on his own, but he’s a college student and can’t afford it. He also lives in a different state. So here’s what I have in mind.

Call the store, buy $X dollars in gift cards or store credit, and then send my BIL to the store and tell him to go through the process and buy the gun on his own name, except that I would have paid for it.

Alternatively, buy a ticket down there, given him cash, take him to the store, and he buys it on his own name with the money I gave him.

Would I be breaking any law doing it this way?

 

[milemaker13]

So, you're just giving him a gift card and suggesting he buy his first gun? Sounds as legal as anything else.

 

[Bobson]

So, you're just giving him a gift card and suggesting he buy his first gun?

Exactly. It sounds legal to me too, I just want to make sure. I looked up the actual straw purchase laws and this seems perfectly legit... just wanted to get a few other opinions, even though I realize it’s not like this counts as legal advice.

 

[WestKentucky]

It's absolutely legal as long as you are not the one taking ownership of the gun. It would look funny and may get questioned. It throws a big red flag when Jimmy is buying a gun and Randy is the one paying for it. Gift cards in the exact amount are sketchy too. If your thinking about a 400 dollar gun give him 500 dollar gift card and tell him to get some ammo and earmuffs to go along with it.

 

[BigBore44]

What state is he in? Depending on the state, you can buy the gun and gift it to him. That is not a straw purchase. It’s a gift.

 

[Bobson]

He’s in TX. I’m in WA. For now.

 

[chicharrones]

Using a gift card is exactly how I bought a Beretta Neos years ago. I did the same when purchasing Nikon binoculars. Both at Academy Sports and Outdoors in Texas. The Beretta was with an Academy gift card. The other was with a credit card gift card such as Visa.

Easy breezy.

 

[Theohazard]

What state is he in? Depending on the state, you can buy the gun and gift it to him. That is not a straw purchase. It’s a gift.

No, it wouldn't be a straw purchase, but it would be a felony transfer regardless of what state he's in. The OP was very clear that he and his brother-in-law live in different states. Since 1968 is has been a felony to gift or sell a firearm across state lines without going through a dealer.

 

[Theohazard]

To the OP: It doesn't matter who pays for the firearm as long as the person filling out the paperwork is the one who the firearm is actually for. Ignore the people warning you about having a gift card in the exact amount: That kind of thing happens all the time. It's actually encouraged by overly-cautious dealers who don't like it when people tell them that the gun they're buying is actually a gift for someone else.

Even though it's perfectly legal (federally) to buy a gun as a gift for someone and then do the paperwork yourself, many dealers will tell you to buy a gift card and give it to the recipient and have them come in to do the paperwork instead.

Don't forget that since he's 18 the only firearms that can be transferred to him through a dealer are rifles and shotguns.

 

[Mn Fats]

Hmm. Macho man Randy Savage and Hollywood Hulk Hogan in your profile pic? Buying a gun for your BIL? Your a great American.

 

[Spats McGee]

No, gifts are not straw purchases, in and of themselves. They are perfectly legal between residents of the same state, provided that both parties are of age, not prohibited from possession, etc. As noted, however, federal law prohibits your giving it directly to him without an FFL, and it's going to have to be a long gun.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age; . . . .

That's if an FFL is going to transfer the gun. I am not licensed in TX, and I have only briefly looked at its statutes, but it looks like 18 is the legal age of possession for a handgun there. Just can't buy one from a dealer because of federal law.

Also, while I commend your choice of gifts, I have to ask . . . . You mentioned that he's a college student. Have you thought about where he's going to keep it? I have not looked into the issue of firearms possession on college grounds, but if he's going to be in a dorm: (a) keeping a gun there may well be illegal; and (b) keeping a gun there could also be a bad idea on a monumental scale.

 

[Axis II]

My buddy put a rifle on layaway and then forgot about it and when they called they wanted like $250 right that day and if he backed out he would have lost like $50 in restocking fees. My buddy told him go ahead and go get it and he would put the balance on a credit card and the other guy pay him back so he didn't lose the deal and have to give a store $50 for 3min of work. We all load up and go to the store and he tells them he would do the form for the BC and someone was putting the balance on their credit card. The store told him it was illegal. I asked if HE is doing the form and already put $200 down why is it illegal and they kept saying straw purchased and cant gift a gun. They did suggest that the person buy $250 worth of gift cards and then go elsewhere and hand my buddy the gift cards because if they knew he was given the gift card they would scrap the purchased. I kept asking if HE is doing the form who cares whos credit card pays the balance. Total purchase was over $400 he put down like $200. I never understood that if he was doing the BC it was in HIS name and not the guy using his credit card.

 

[Spats McGee]

^^^ I'm not sure where you are, or what your state laws are, but it sounds more like an overly-cautious store than anything else. Perhaps they were afraid that you'd dispute the transaction, or that it was in actuality a straw purchase.

 

[coswabbit]

added:
1. is your BIL a card carrying resident of the lonestar state? he might not be able to purchase a handgun but can purchase a rifle/shotgun, [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3); 27 CFR 478.99(a)]
2. Where is your BIL going to carry since he doesn't qualify for a TX Handgun License?

forgive the question, since you didn’t specifically state what type of firearm, but if your BIL is 18yo...by federal law he cannot purchase a handgun nor handgun ammo from a FFL until he is 21! [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1) and (b)(2); 27 CFR 478.99(b)]

long gun yes by federal law (not sure of texas’s statutes)he may purchase.[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1) and (b)(2); 27 CFR 478.99(b)]

might i suggest a further act of kindness...pay for either a NRA basic pistol or rifle course (no not a tactical kool or conceal course) that will provide the rudimentary safe handling, basic firearm familiarity & overview, etc., so he can make a viable choice in his purchase of his new firearm verses what some silly box store clerk believes he needs or the clerk needs to move out of the store’s inventory.

finally, consideration should be paramount of his storage of his new acquisition while staying on campus as well as while on break(s). some background: http://abc13.com/6-facts-you-need-to-know-about-campus-carry/1451354/

your perception of using gift cards is an exemplary method.

now whom do i have to marry in your family to receive such a gracious boon?

 

[Axis II]

^^^ I'm not sure where you are, or what your state laws are, but it sounds more like an overly-cautious store than anything else. Perhaps they were afraid that you'd dispute the transaction, or that it was in actuality a straw purchase.

If he was doing the form and passed it how could it be a straw purchased? They kept telling those two that he was not the buyer if someone else gave him the money. He told them I'm 34yo so age isn't an issue and already put half down on the gun.

 

[buck460XVR]

No, it wouldn't be a straw purchase, but it would be a felony transfer regardless of what state he's in. The OP was very clear that he and his brother-in-law live in different states. Since 1968 is has been a felony to gift or sell a firearm across state lines without going through a dealer.

But according to the OP he is not gifting the gun across state lines........he is either sending gift card across state lines(Legal, yes?) or going to his BIL's state and taking him shopping.

So here’s what I have in mind.

Call the store, buy $X dollars in gift cards or store credit, and then send my BIL to the store and tell him to go through the process and buy the gun on his own name, except that I would have paid for it.

Alternatively, buy a ticket down there, given him cash, take him to the store, and he buys it on his own name with the money I gave him.

 

[Theohazard]

No, it wouldn't be a straw purchase, but it would be a felony transfer regardless of what state he's in. The OP was very clear that he and his brother-in-law live in different states. Since 1968 is has been a felony to gift or sell a firearm across state lines without going through a dealer.

But according to the OP he is not gifting the gun across state lines........he is either sending gift card across state lines(Legal, yes?) or going to his BIL's state and taking him shopping.

I was responding to BigBore44’s advice in post #5. He suggested that the OP buy the gun as a gift (perfectly legal and not a straw purchase) and then just give it to his brother-in-law (an illegal felony transfer since it’s across state lines).

 

[Theohazard]

If he was doing the form and passed it how could it be a straw purchased? They kept telling those two that he was not the buyer if someone else gave him the money. He told them I'm 34yo so age isn't an issue and already put half down on the gun.

If someone gives you money to buy a gun for them, that’s a straw purchase because you’re lying on question 11a of the 4473. If someone gives you money to buy a gun for yourself, that’s not a straw purchase since you’re not lying on question 11a.

The dealer in question either didn’t know the difference between the two, or they didn’t believe the claims that the person who was receiving the gun was the one actually filling out the form.

 

[BigBore44]

No, it wouldn't be a straw purchase, but it would be a felony transfer regardless of what state he's in. The OP was very clear that he and his brother-in-law live in different states. Since 1968 is has been a felony to gift or sell a firearm across state lines without going through a dealer.

And he also stated clearly that he would “buy a ticket down there, given him cash, take him to the store, and he buys it on his own name with the money I gave him“. That is not across state lines. That is going shopping for a gift. Everything will be done in the BIL’s name, with money given to said BIL. There will be no selling or transfer from except from the store to the BIL. If THAT’s somehow illegal, please, tell me how.

 

[Theohazard]

And he also stated clearly that he would “buy a ticket down there, given him cash, take him to the store, and he buys it on his own name with the money I gave him“. That is not across state lines. That is going shopping for a gift. Everything will be done in the BIL’s name, with money given to said BIL. There will be no selling or transfer from except from the store to the BIL. If THAT’s somehow illegal, please, tell me how.

That’s what he said he was going to do, but that’s not what you advised him to do. You advised him to buy the gun and then gift it to his brother-in-law. Here’s your exact quote:

What state is he in? Depending on the state, you can buy the gun and gift it to him. That is not a straw purchase. It’s a gift.

Buying the gun and then gifting it to him would be a felony unless the gun was delivered to a dealer and they transferred it. And your advice in post #5 made no mention of doing it though a dealer.

 

[BigBore44]

That’s what he said he was going to do, but that’s not what you advised him to do. You advised him to buy the gun and then gift it to his brother-in-law. Here’s your exact quote:



Buying the gun and then gifting it to him would be a felony unless the gun was delivered to a dealer and they transferred it. And your advice in post #5 made no mention of doing it though a dealer.

I did not advise him to do anything. I simply stated an alternative that he could gift the firearm to his BIL. And he can. But, you are correct that I did not mention going through an FFL to do so because he didn’t say he would go that route. It was just an option.

 

[Spats McGee]

If he was doing the form and passed it how could it be a straw purchased? They kept telling those two that he was not the buyer if someone else gave him the money. He told them I'm 34yo so age isn't an issue and already put half down on the gun.

If Person A gives money to Person B to purchase a firearm & fill out a 4473 to get a firearm for Person A, that's a straw purchase. This is so because Person B is not the actual purchaser, but must say that he is (lie) on the 4473 to complete the purchase. In your case, it might not have actually been a straw purchase, but the shop may well have believed it was a straw purchase.

 

[chicharrones]

He’s in TX. I’m in WA. For now.

I have a young brother in law who I’m particularly proud of. He’s bucked the familial trend and has made some excellent choices about his future. My wife and I want to gift him with a firearm. He’s 18, and old enough to buy one on his own, but he’s a college student and can’t afford it. He also lives in a different state. So here’s what I have in mind.

Another thing I forgot to mention when I gave my story about the gift card use in post #7.

There are gun stores around here (Texas) that give public notice that they will not sell Modern Sporting Rifles to anyone under 21. Academy Sports and Outdoors is supposedly one of those stores.

 

[Bobson]

1. The firearm is going to be a bolt action hunting rifle.

2. Yes, my BIL is an honest to goodness, card carrying, legal resident of Texas.

3. He lives at home with his parents, not in a dorm. Storage of the rifle will be at home, locked up.

4. Think we’re gonna go ahead and do my original plan of either sending him money and having him buy his own gift, or I fly down and give him money and he buys his own gift.

I appreciate all the responses.

 

[coswabbit]

1. The firearm is going to be a bolt action hunting rifle.

2. Yes, my BIL is an honest to goodness, card carrying, legal resident of Texas.

3. He lives at home with his parents, not in a dorm. Storage of the rifle will be at home, locked up.

4. Think we’re gonna go ahead and do my original plan of either sending him money and having him buy his own gift, or I fly down and give him money and he buys his own gift.

I appreciate all the responses.

great gift...nicely done!