Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Axis II, Oct 29, 2021.
Whetstone’s wreck your blades!
Unfortunately in my hands, yes........ Give me a sharp blade and a whetstone and I guarantee within 10 seconds I'll have than knife perfectly dull........ It's why I use electric sharpeners.
There are two types of gun guys we should split out of this discussion:
1) Internet gun guys
2) Real life gun guys
It sounds like you're primarily talking about internet gun guys. That's the nature of the internet. Every forum for every imaginable activity or hobby has the same issue with pompous and self-righteous roosters that exist mostly to crow about everything they supposedly know. Often times those online experts are anything but, though you'll find some people at the peak of their game hanging out in these groups as well... it just becomes an effort to figure out who knows something, and who the idiots are.
By the way, I shoot at .260 Remington in my competition gun (nearly a ballistic twin to the 6.5CM), and my last competition gun was a .308 Win. The 6.5CM is undoubtedly ballistically superior for going the distance, but .308 Win is arguably just as accurate at shorter distances, provides a phenomenal barrel life, and uses more readily available components (well, when most things are readily available).
Okay, moving on to "real life" gun guys. I find that the most bravado comes from those who are trying to bolster their resume through a firm application of ego. There are a lot of retail gun counter employees who don't know their butts from a hole in the ground, but they'll be happy to show their "expertise" to anyone who will actually listen to them. The louder they are the less they know in most cases. These types love to act superior, and often lead people in the wrong direction. As an example, one particularly irritating know-it-all at a local gun counter was talking to a young lady who said she was very recoil sensitive, but wanted a gun for self-defense while camping (implying self-defense against humans). Since we have some black bear in this state the guy convinced her that she needed a .500 S&W Magnum for backpacking defense... ridiculous. The same guy tried to convince my wife to get a .380 as a carry gun because a 9mm or larger would just be "far too much for a woman of your size" (my wife has shot a .50 BMG before, and carries a .40 S&W normally).
Don't get me wrong, some gun counters have employees who really do have impressive shooting resumes. A quiet older guy who worked behind the counter at a shop I used to frequent was a Wimbleton Cup winner. Another guy at a different shop was a Grand Master in USPSA and a Master in IDPA. Another guy guided hunts full time in Alaska for several decades... some people know their stuff, but the ones who do often aren't the ones who feel the need to convince everyone around them that they are experts (they follow more of a "quiet professional" lifestyle).
But, caliber debates will exist for as long as guns are measured in calibers. It's just like listening to truck guys go on about the merits of Ford, Chevy, or Dodge.
Maybe this will help.
This is how I sharpen my cooking knives with whetstone once or twice a year (And no, not my video)
If I do that, butter my butt and call me a biscuit.
I choose to converse with civil and competent gun guys, not the donkeys of the sport (and there are plenty).
Donkeys is the word I like for those types of folks too......
Lotsa donkeys in every hobby, at least every hobby I've been part of......cars was way worse than guns, but even something as simplistic as traditional archery has its share of "donkey heads"
I view it as enlightenment opportunity.
But ... Its okay if they disagree with me, I can't force them to be right.
It's ok to disagree. Being loud and obnoxious isn't.
The example of "best" deer cartridge opens up too many variables for a best. If someone picks one cartridge and is obnoxious about it. I make him do the same thing I do anti gun people. A calm, informed argument makes heads explode if they don't listen to reason.
I did NOT see this one coming. One of the best internet ripostes of the year!
So, back on topic. When I was starting out in the gun world ('70s basically, though I'd been hunting in MI since '69), every kernel of information was fresh, new and interesting. We tended to acquire most of our gun knowledge through actual experience and from those elders we knew had experience. Before the internet, it was difficult to pose as an expert, one, because our world was smaller (in terms of what guns and accessories existed) and two, because we all kinda knew who the real experts were (a lot of them wrote books, toured, wrote for the popular outdoor periodicals of the day, etc., and it was relatively easy to verify the credentials and backgrounds of our local guys -- the experienced hunters, our mentors, most adult males back then had all served in the military, many in combat, our local cops and deputies were part of our communities and well-known, etc.
Sadly, with the evolution of the internet, anyone can access any information, easily. Problem is, there's so much crap, it's overwhelming for the newer folks to sift through and find accurate information -- or truth.
Anonymity makes it easy to ridicule, insult, slight, bait, troll, posture and pose. Difficult to verify a poster's CV, background, experience. Kinda like tinted windows on motor vehicles make it easy for the road ragers. The a$$clown riding your tail, swerving around you, brake-checking you won't look you in the eyes as he passes you.
I've walked away from the gun counters, or out of gunshops or away from discussions about firearms stuff simply because I couldn't stomach the blowhards, the misinformation or the posing. I'll walk away from the computer sometimes when the stuff gets piled too deep, too.
This is another problem in our community. A lot of folks profile others, and not in a good way. I've seen inexcusable treatment in gunshops and at the gun counters of women, minorities, gays and others who just didn't "fit the bill" as far as being worthy to be present in the gunshop.
All of which is ironic since now we have the bearded bald guys, full-sleeve ink, tight tee shirts, 5-11 pants, trendy hikers (just like the SEALs wear), ball caps and Oakleys who apparently want everyone who sees them to think, hey, look: "A gun guy!" Had a new officer come through a while back (no longer with us), he was one of these guys, found out he'd been medically discharged from the ARNG due to a training injury... and had been a cook. Sigh. But he talked mad s*** about what a weapons expert he was. Couldn't even meet the basic qual on the M4 the first time.
Yes, there are folks who have expensive gear and who use it well, they are the minority. It's the ones using the tribal association to enhance their self image for social status. Being 68 now, I can say with some experience that it was like that before the internet. Facebook didn't invent it, you could listen to someone spout off and if you knew your subject matter they would trip themselves up every time.
There was a face off like that in the movie "Ronin" where a supposed operator commented on how to set up an ambush, DeNiro's character questions him, points out the elements are shooting directly at each other, and then asks "what color is the boat house at Hereford?" He claimed he trained there, how could you not know what color it was painted? It became a conversation item just before the internet was made available.
We did that for decades before the internet was invented - listen long enough and the ignorant will trip themselves up. Be advised that doing that is now considered a necessary tactic and some go to lengths to sharpshoot others to jack up their own social standing. Lather rinse repeat.
I asked a self professed "Professional racing engine assembler" what cam he was asking to bid a customers engine, and the spec was "lumpy." That's sales talk for a low vacuum carb cam for street shows, entertainment for the masses. I bid one, he still didn't get the job. The customer apparently listened to him long enough, too, and went elsewhere. My specific question was "what LSA" and thats when I got a lecture on his qualifications - or lack thereof.
A coworker expressed in interest in buying a copper wound Lincoln stick welder. one switch position burned out. Sold it but I should have thought twice when he told me he used to own a '63 Cougar GT350 with factory Boss 302. I called him on it and he later refused to pay me the other half of the deal.
I learned when you get told BS, walk away. A quiet exit is what all the other adults do, and later when they ask, you are now in on the joke and also qualified in their eyes. Those were the guidelines in the day - not internet braggadocio or loud posturing.
We were raised with another adult male in the house - a dad. Now, 75% aren't and here we are talking about why it's not a good thing.
THR is predicated on civility and the internet gun jerk isn't tolerated here. There are also social media groups that require the same civility required here. Sure there are tons of sites, groups, shops, ranges, or clubs that tolerate jerks but I'd hope those places aren't supported by the good gun guys.
I'd be willing to bet that most of the ones being referred to by the OP are only type "A" when they have a screen and keyboard to hide behind.
Yes, anytime you get a group of folks with very similar interests, there are going to dissenting opinions about certain details. Mostly it boils down to people needing their own decisions to be approved by others, then being defensive when they don't get the approval they hope for.
I'm fortunate enough to have friends and acquaintances who know things because they've done them. I'll take their word on certain things instead of the word of some internet guru who only knows because someone he knows, that may or may not know, told him.
Type A and Type B personality hypothesisdescribes two contrasting personality types. In this hypothesis, personalities that are more competitive, highly organized, ambitious, impatient, highly aware of time management, or aggressive are labeled Type A, while more relaxed, less "neurotic", "frantic", "explainable" personalities are labeled Type B.
Pfft. 120mm is the way. Quality, not quantity.
Seriously, I drive by VFW’s with M60’s parked and figure I should start a post at my home so I can get one parked in my yard. A measly 105mm, but hey… These days I just have to be happy with 7mm and 7.62.
I changed Deer camps 5 or 6 years ago and my new camp does not have any gun guys like my former club had. I miss the conservations some what, as most were pretty civil.
I would characterize a "good" gun guy as someone always willing to learn; someone who says "Here's what has works for me, but it's not the only option". I try to be that person, not always 100% successfully.
I like the four way breakdown of Field Marshal von Moltke.
• Smart & Lazy: I make them my Commanders because they make the right thing happen but find the easiest way to accomplish the mission.
• Smart & Energetic: I make them my General Staff Officers because they make intelligent plans that make the right things happen.
• Dumb & Lazy: There are menial tasks that require an officer to perform that they can accomplish and they follow orders without causing much harm
• Dumb & Energetic: These are dangerous and must be eliminated. They cause thing to happen but the wrong things so cause trouble.
Separate names with a comma.