Gun Loyalty?

[MachIVshooter]

A lot of people like the 6.5 CM, it just gets made fun of a lot. This is because of the fanboi's and their over obsession with it.

That's really the crux of it. Gushing over a thing and touting it as the best thing since sliced bread when it really isn't can turn a lot of folks off to that thing, even if it does have real merit. Enough of the fanboying, especially when it starts to feel like we're having it shoved down our throats, they can even become things we love to hate, more because of what they represent rather than any actual fault of the thing. Subarus and Teslas are another example of this.

 

[Varminterror]

Is this just another 6.5 creed bashing thread in disguise?

Are folks so triggered by a short action, small bore cartridge so badly that they really need to hate on it for 18+ years?

At least try to be original if you're going to beat dead horses...

 

[BreechFace]

At least try to be original if you're going to beat dead horses...

I'll have to work on some more original thoughts to poke fun at the 6.5CM with...

Good suggestion.

 

[westernrover]

I consider 6.5 Creedmoor a product of my generation in the sense that it and the trend around it (efficient cartridges with low bc bullets) came about during my lifetime. My lifetime mostly includes (with respect to firearms) Boomers, Gen-X, Millennials, and Gen Alpha (so far). A Boomer introduced the 6.5 CM and Millennials probably bought most of them.

I'm Gen-X, and my rifle is actually a belted Win-Mag from the Lost and Greatest Generations. My dad, who is of the Silent Generation, was alive when the belted Win Mags were introduced, but too young to be part of the cohort of consumers they targeted. He would have been in High School. He did, at that time, use a 270 on the ranch. I acquired my belted Win Mag by random chance. It was developed during the Magnum trend, started by Roy Weatherby, when big overbore cartridges shot lightweight bullets at 3600 fps for laser-like trajectories and the longest MPBR. There were no laser rangefinders. I am not loyal to it. If I get to use it some, I might gain a sentimental attachment to it, but I have none yet.

For my sons, I bought a 6.5 Grendel, which preceded the 6.5 CM, although I bought it at a time when both were available. In a practical sense, the Grendel does everything the CM does. I don't argue about elk because none of my family are hunting elk all over the place. Deer and pronghorn cannot tell the difference. Later, I bought a rifle in 6.5 CM for my boys. It's outstanding. I can't ask for anything more. I can take it out and with a cold bore, hit a coke can at a known-distance of 300 yards with one shot. I can dial the scope and hit the dead center of a paper plate at 100, 200, 300 yards with successive shots. With a 200 yard zero, MPBR for deer is just about 300 yards. My son took a buck with it at 200 yards without a laser. For longer shots, the laser and dialing becomes useful. Is it an elk gun? I don't care. Am I loyal to it, or is my son? No. I wouldn't sell it, but my son could someday if he wanted to. Would 270 or 308 do the same things? Or 6.5 Swedish, or 260? Sure. Should we shun 6.5 CM for being hipster? Whatever.

I don't think 6.5 CM is even that much of a craze anymore. Certainly, it was for a while, but now there are all the PRCs, the Westerner, ARC, HAMR, Fury, the Backcountry, Blackout, all the different modern straightwalls, Buckhammer, the Legends, etc. not to mention all the 6mm benchrest stuff, PPC, 6x47 Lapua, BR, GT, Norma, Dasher, BRX, UBL, ARC, 6mm CM. Even if we discount the AR cartridges and the straightwalls, it seems like 6.5 CM is less likely to sell today than the PRCs and several new cartridges are vying against them for market share. There's not much reason to hate a nearly 20 year old cartridge in today's world of johnny-come-latelies.

 

[westernrover]

I remember I took the 6.5 Creedmoor to the range once and there was a fella there. He seemed to want me to know that all he ever shot was 30-06 and 223. He told me several times. Couldn't think of a reason why he'd ever need anything else. I suspect he was one of those guys that was still bitter about the switch to 308.

 

[BreechFace]

duplicate

 

[BreechFace]

If I shot 6.5 caliber firearms, I would most likely own a 6.5 Manbun, it seems to be a great balance for antelope, mulies, etc.

I’m just more of a 7mm.

Despite my jabbing at it on here, I’ve talked a few people into it over the years with some advice on what its advantages and limitations are.

 

[md7]

I’m fine with anyone using a cartridge that has the performance they need, at the ranges they need for the type of game they’re taking or paper they’re punching.

With all the choices now days, it’s hard for a guy like me to have em all and I had to choose something.

And so for me it’s 270 Win because that’s what I was handed to kill deer with some 30 years ago and 308 Winchester due to familiarity and being literally surrounded by 308 hunters for a good chunk of those 30 years.

In the same token, far be it from me to knock someone else’s cartridge choice as long is it’s suitable for their needs and effective for what they’re doing with it.

I suppose in my case, it’s more about that you gotta land somewhere and that’s where i fell. Not sure I’m loyal so much as I’m just dancing with the one who brung me.

That and new rifles are expensive! More cost effective to just run what I already got.

 

[Dr T]

Just a note On the 6.5 Swede: I like the cartridge, but I bought a M96 that had been bubba'd by Century Arms and was underwhelmed. I have an EABCO Accuracy barrel for my Encore, but I haven't gotten around to scoping it and breaking in the barrel. It will be interesting to see if it is as accurate as the Contender 30-30 (but I sort of think it won't be.) My only objection to the 6.5 SW (besides the weak brass) is the funky case head size.

 

[3Crows]

I remember I took the 6.5 Creedmoor to the range once and there was a fella there. He seemed to want me to know that all he ever shot was 30-06 and 223. He told me several times. Couldn't think of a reason why he'd ever need anything else. I suspect he was one of those guys that was still bitter about the switch to 308.

Anyone who owns only two rifles in two calibers is an amateur. Tell him you will further consider his uneducated and inexperienced opinion when he has 100 rifles is thirty calibers. You do not know what you do not know until you realize you do not know it because you never tried it. And besides, if I could only afford one rifle, it would be a Marlin in .45-70 .

And I was so enamored with the 6.5 Man Bun that I grew my hair out and bought two of them. Thing is, for the life of me, I cannot figure out how to get all my hair into a bun so I just let it hang all over the place. So perhaps somebody can coin a new hair related term for the new 7mm BC, maybe just call it the new 7mm Hippie. Because I want one. If I can find some money not spent on other things.

 

[BreechFace]

7mm Obsoleter

 

[CowboyTim]

I think, that to some extent, we are a product of how we were introduced to "big" rifles. I grew up on a small dairy farm, been hunting with my dad since I was a little kid. Got my first 22 in 1987 at age 12(Ruger 10/22). Dad didn't think we needed to hunt anything bigger than small game until we were 14. Started deer hinting with an old k98k with a cut down stock and original irons.

Still have a soft spot for 8mm's and 98 Mausers. Carrying that old Mauser around for the first few years I hunted deer made an impression.

If I had a new rifle then, I wouldn't appreciate the history of that old one now.

Probably the guys here that toted around an '03 or an enfield, or even "Grandpa's old 30-30" when they stared out feel the same way.

 

[CraigC]

It's not that I hate the 6.5 CM, it's more like, I'm sometimes puzzled by the reasoning for why it takes decades to cycle through these concepts. And when they do....it isn't all that new. (6.5 Swede.)

Maybe I'll get an upper in 6.5 one day, but right now I'm still trying to learn and maximize all of the potential in my .243.

The 6.5CM was designed explicitly to fit the AR10. The 6.5x55 does not do that. So for the purpose for which it was designed, it was new.

 

[westernrover]

I think almost all the new cartridges have some kind of rationalization. I was just looking at the 300 PRC. The whole line of PRC cartridges are based on the 375 Ruger case, which had a good rationalization: duplicate the performance of the 375 H&H but instead of using a very long tapered case that was optimized for cordite and low pressures, make the case short enough to fit in a standard-length action (the H&H requires a magnum action), have less taper and a 30 degree shoulder. We know that works well, and then we have the proven ballistics of the 375 H&H in a more compact package because we've adapted it for modern smokeless propellants. Once we have the 375 Ruger case, we can neck it up and down to all the other calibers and it doesn't require much more justification than, "because we can." With the PRC, the shoulder was set back far enough to optimize them for the latest, longest, low-drag bullets. That contrasts with the magnums that were derived by shortening H&H cases to standard-length actions (Weatherby and Winchester) because those were designed to maximize case capacity in a short length, and fire lightweight bullets at high velocities. Also, unlike those legacy magnums, the PRC run the gamut of action lengths from short (6.5mm) to long (7mm) and also magnum-length (300). There are other ways to do the same thing as PRC, necking down 416 Rigby cases (the Lapua and Norma Magnums) and necking down 404 Jefferey cases (the RUM and Nosler cartridges).

 

[mm93]

He probably should have titled the story "Cartridge loyalty" as that better describes his story.
Other than a CZ 452 in .17HMR I don't own any guns in remotely modern cartridges, and don't see any reason I would? I prefer old guns in old cartridges, and especially cartridges that started out in the black powder era. I do own some high pressure smokeless cartridge rifles and use them to hunt with, but I'm more interested in rifles from the 1800's chambered in mostly pre 1900 cartridges.
Not loyal to any one cartridge, but I am loyal to just a couple brands of rifles and 90% of my collection I also shoot are either Marlin Ballard single shots, or Remington Hepburn and Rolling Block single shots.

 

[Bentnail63]

So I been fenced on staying with an historic 308 that shoots. I have shot 308s and like them. But I have considered the 6.5cm but since I have not shot it I can't say anything in pro or con other than I find that 308 rifle price is and then by popularity the 6.5cm is more money. I personally see the 6.5cm as another to come along be another caliber. So when will there be a 6.7 gallop or a 6.9 crester come along? Then it will be the next best thing and the 6.5cm will right back there with the 308.

 

[Mosin77]

So I been fenced on staying with an historic 308 that shoots. I have shot 308s and like them. But I have considered the 6.5cm but since I have not shot it I can't say anything in pro or con other than I find that 308 rifle price is and then by popularity the 6.5cm is more money. I personally see the 6.5cm as another to come along be another caliber. So when will there be a 6.7 gallop or a 6.9 crester come along? Then it will be the next best thing and the 6.5cm will right back there with the 308.

This right here is the reason I instinctively distrust jumping on the bandwagon.

I’m sure the 6.5CM is excellent. I’m also sure 6.5 Grendel was and is excellent, along with 7mm-08, etc. If you’ve taken the trouble to tool up for a caliber that does the job, you tend to think long and hard (and have real knowledge of its shortcomings) before you spend the time, money, effort to switch platforms.

When that 6.9 Crester comes out, there will be very convincing gun rag articles and ballistic charts telling us how clearly superior it is to 6.5CM, to say nothing of .270, .308, or .223 Remington. And some people will switch. Enough to form a critical mass and ensure the cartridge becomes a staple? Hard to say. But there will be plenty of guys who shrug and say that it may be a little better (probably not though) and that their 6.5CM has never failed to bring down a deer as long as they do their part.

If I were just starting out I freely admit that 6.5CM brings a LOT to the table. Pretty good compromise of power, low recoil, flat trajectory, accuracy, shorter case than the old “legacy” 6.5s… but if I’m not just starting out and I have a 6.5 Swede that works just fine in my rifle of choice, or a .257 Roberts, or a .308, etc, there’s really zero reason to switch unless I really need some advantage the newer cartridge gives. And plenty of reason to roll my eyes at the breathless hype, when we all really know the deer won’t be able to tell the difference.

 

[WestKentucky]

IMHO, none of the haters seem to care about the actual facts.

I reject your series of well documented and proven ok facts and substitute in my own. .270 win is the best ever. Absolute perfection. Nevermind the lack of heavy bullets due to the poor twist rate of the rifles. 130gr SMK only, not even worth trying anything else. And 4350, don’t forget 4350.

Actuality of it though, I don’t really care for the round, because of its bore size. If it fails to expand it’s a tiny hole leaving very slim margin for error. On paper who cares, but on meat that’s the difference in many cases of a long-track recovery and a lost animal. Bigger hole drops more blood faster. Period. Pump a buck dry and he falls over. Period. For this simple reason alone I prefer larger (and heavier) rounds to a point where they become artillery pieces lobbing in indirect fire. And the manbun name is just too funny not to perpetuate.

 

[Bentnail63]

I reject your series of well documented and proven ok facts and substitute in my own. .270 win is the best ever. Absolute perfection. Nevermind the lack of heavy bullets due to the poor twist rate of the rifles. 130gr SMK only, not even worth trying anything else. And 4350, don’t forget 4350.

Actuality of it though, I don’t really care for the round, because of its bore size. If it fails to expand it’s a tiny hole leaving very slim margin for error. On paper who cares, but on meat that’s the difference in many cases of a long-track recovery and a lost animal. Bigger hole drops more blood faster. Period. Pump a buck dry and he falls over. Period. For this simple reason alone I prefer larger (and heavier) rounds to a point where they become artillery pieces lobbing in indirect fire. And the manbun name is just too funny not to perpetuate.

i know i reach away alittle, but my wife keeps a collection of "Man Buns" on her phone with other teachers that is friends with. I pointed her to read about this, she chuckled also.

 

[SterlingBullet]

Caliber wars are just like the Ford vs Chevy debate.
The free market decides for tens of thousands or millions of different reasons, rational or irrational.
The path of humanity is quite a rollercoaster ride, grab your ticket and enjoy the ride.