Gun Registration bill in MN!!!

Discussion in 'Legal' started by craig101, Feb 24, 2008.

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  1. craig101

    craig101 Member

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    Hi,

    every day during the session, i read the new bills introduced. i saw these earlier in the week. it seems some want to eliminate private party sales.

    currently, if you have a CCW or purchase permit, you can sell a pistol or "assault weapon" to another CCW or PP holder without going thru the police or FFL. if you do do the transfer/check thru the police, they CANNOT by law, keep any records of these transfers.

    these bills want to change that and force these people to go thru an FFL. it would also eliminate the requirement of the police to destroy said transfer records, although i think that is moot, as these bills mandate that the transfers go thru an FFL.

    there is more info at twincitiescarry . com

    or here: http://joelrosenberg.livejournal.com/238404.html

    maybe F4GIB can chime in as well on these bills.

    Craig
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  2. F4GIB

    F4GIB Member

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    Unfortunately, the anti's and the metro DFL are both totally IRRATIONAL in their hatred of gun owners.

    They love 'poor, mistreated' gangbangers and blame us for the shootings that occur (70% of all shootings) in only two (2) zip codes in Minneapolis.

    Not only don't I live in Minneapolis, I never shop, eat, or recreate in the town. Never spend a penny there.
     
  3. Richmond

    Richmond Member

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    MN anti's

    Much like the recent court of appeals case in MN

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=337214

    this illustrates that the anti's in MN will keep trying to erode the gains made for gun owners in recent years. We have to remember that we won a battle with the passing of the Minnesota Citizens Personal Protection Act (MN's "shall issue" CCW statute) but the struggle continues.
     
  4. DENALI

    DENALI member

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    Your mistaken on those buy sell requirements. In the state of Mn, it's lawful for any citizen in good legal standing to sell to any other private party ccw or not...
     
  5. craig101

    craig101 Member

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    not quite denali,

    624.7131 Subd. 10. Transfer report not required. A person who transfers a pistol or semiautomatic
    military-style assault weapon to a person exhibiting a valid transferee permit issued pursuant to
    this section or a valid permit to carry issued pursuant to section 624.714 is not required to file
    a transfer report pursuant to section 624.7132, subdivision 1.

    more importantly,

    624.7132 Subd. 14. Transfer to unknown party. (a) No person shall transfer a pistol or semiautomatic
    military-style assault weapon to another who is not personally known to the transferor unless the
    proposed transferee presents evidence of identity to the transferor.
    (b) No person who is not personally known to the transferor shall become a transferee of
    a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon unless the person presents evidence
    of identity to the transferor.
    (c) The evidence of identity shall contain the name, residence address, date of birth, and
    photograph of the proposed transferee; must be made or issued by or under the authority of the
    United States government, a state, a political subdivision of a state, a foreign government, a
    political subdivision of a foreign government, an international governmental or an international
    quasi-governmental organization; and must be of a type commonly accepted for the purpose of
    identification of individuals.
    (d) A person who becomes a transferee of a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault
    weapon in violation of this subdivision is guilty of a misdemeanor.



    here is the registration part of the new bill:

    Subd. 10a. Record keeping. All reports of transfer shall be maintained in a manner,
    5.23as determined by the Department of Public Safety, that facilitates efficient crime gun
    5.24tracing and ensures that the records are available for all lawful purposes, including being
    5.25available to federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies for purposes of civil or
    5.26criminal law enforcement investigations.


    either way you look at this bill, it AIN'T good!

    C
     
  6. RedLion

    RedLion Member

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    how likely is it that the bill will pass?
     
  7. jfh

    jfh Member.

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    how likely is it that the bill will pass?

    I think its liklihood of passage rests on how much the metro / liberal wing of the Democrat (here in MN, that's DFL) feel emboldened by presidential politics in an electon year.

    They were emboldened by the midterm election results of two years ago, when they dealt the Republican House majority a stunning defeat. They had succeeded in holding off a "conservative" majority in the Senate for years. The original CHL law was a stinging rebuke to them, particularly since the "blood in the streets" mantra did not come about by licensees.

    Today, with the help of Republicans, the House overturned a Gubernatorial veto of the Transportation bill. In sum, the resurgent conservatism in Minnesota is in retreat, and I suspect the Metrocrat antigunners will pounce.

    However, a number of the outstate / rural Democrats are not real comfortable with the Democrat national antigun agenda--

    In short, I don't think we will know the liklihood of success for an antigun bill this year--but nothing would surprise me.

    Jim H.
     
  8. goalie

    goalie Member

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    I am not allowed on that site, not that I would visit if I was able to.

    What info exactly are you talking about that is not in this thread?
     
  9. craig101

    craig101 Member

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    here is what Joel posted at TC carry in his live journal.

    Gun registration in Minnesota?
    I knew that this Minnesota legislative session was going to be ugly, but, sheesh . . . Paymar, in the House, has a whole slew of awful bills. But the worst is, well, dreadful.

    California-style gun registration is coming to Minnesota, unless you stop it.
    It's HF 3324. The companion bill -- same language -- in the Senate is SF 2989. Buried in jibber-jabber about "assault style weapons" and the usual gun grabber gibberish, this is nothing more or less than a permanent gun registration scheme for the state of Minnesota. If this bill becomes law, every time a handgun or supposedly scary rifle is transferred -- even between two private parties -- the state would keep a list of who bought it, and who sold it, and when.

    Got an old revolver that your buddy has an eye on? No, you couldn't just ask to see his carry permit or purchase permit and hand it over -- or even loan it to him for a couple of weeks.

    Nope; the two of you would have to go down to a gun shop -- if your local gun shop hasn't been zoned out of business you might not have that much of a drive -- hand it over the the clerk,, have him book it in, and pay the clerk to run a background check on your friend. Your friend who, by the way, already has either a carry permit or a purchase permit, and who already has gone through a criminal background check that can be repeated -- under current law -- by the authorities any time that they please.


    And it gets worse. If there's a glitch in the NICS system, and your friend doesn't get immediately approved, the clerk can't just give your own gun back to you; he's got to run a background check on you -- which, of course, you have to pay for -- before he can.

    And the state gets to keep records of that transaction forever. Forever.

    Who is behind this gun registration scheme won't surprise anybody who has been following these issues. As you'd expect, it's Heather Martens (picture from 2005 at right), the head of the tiny but well-funded astroturf "Citizens for a 'Safer' Minnesota" -- the folks who told us that the 2003 carry reform law would cause the sky to fall -- who has been, err, pumping this bill at the Capitol.

    Gun registration for law-abiding citizens, not criminals. As usual.
    Like all the others, this silly "gun control" bill wouldn't do a damn thing about stopping criminals from getting guns; they don't submit to background checks at all. When was the last time you heard of a gangbanger going down to city hall to apply for a purchase permit, or to his sheriff's office to put in his paperwork for a carry permit? Ever have a wait getting to the clerk because there's a long line of Crips or Bloods or Bogus Boyz ahead of you?

    Me, neither.

    What to do.

    I was starting to type "let's kill this dog of a bill", but that's unfair to man's best friend; I like dogs.

    If you want gun registration in Minnesota, here's what you can do: sit on your hands. If you don't much care, either way, that'll work, too.

    Me, I want to stomp on this cockroach of a bill before it breeds. Takes a lot of feet stomping to kill cockroaches, though.

    Here's how you can stomp on it. You don't have to go up to the Capitol and spend a day lobbying against it, although that would be great, if you want to. All you've got to do is write a few letters and emails, and make a few phone calls.


    First, call, write and email your state Senator and Representative and tell them -- politely, please, but firmly -- that you strongly oppose HF3324 and SF2989, the statewide gun registration bills, and ask them to oppose this "expensive gun registration scheme." Don't accept a weaselly answer -- politely but firmly demand that they let you know their position on it. If they haven't looked into it yet, that's fine; get back to them in a week and follow up. Never yell or threaten; never accept less than a straight answer.

    If you don't know who they are, it's about time to learn that; you'll find that out right here. Don't fail to call, write, and email if you know that they're on the other side, or if you know that they're on our side. Our friends (both Republican and DFLers) need to hear from us; our, err, non-friends do, too.

    Second, do the same thing with every member of the Senate Judiciary committee -- which will be hearing SF2989 -- and the House Public Safety and Civil Justice committee, which is where HF 3324 has gone. You'll find the House committee here, and the Senate committee here.

    You don't have to write a long letter, and it's perfectly okay to call their offices during off hours and leave a short voice message. Just give your name and phone number -- that's so they know that it's not just a couple of people calling over and over again -- mention that you're one of their constituents, if you are, and say something like, "I'm calling to ask you to oppose SF 2989 and HF 3324. Law-abiding Minnesota citizens deserve better than an expensive, California-style gun registration scheme. Please let me know where you stand on this issue."

    And then -- after you've done it -- please point your friends here and ask them to do the same.

    We all can -- and I hope will -- stop this gun registration scheme in its tracks, if we all do our part.

    Me, I've got some letters and emails to write and some more phone calls to make. You?

    ETA: here's a bunch of useful email addresses, all in one place:

    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
    [email protected],
     
  10. Jaenak

    Jaenak Member

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    Okay, so the police know that you own a pistol. So what? I can only see this as being a bad thing if you're planning to use it in a crime. Besides, if it gets stolen, report the theft to the police so they know not to blame you for the resulting murder.

    Also, craig101, DENALI was right. The laws you posted simply say that you can't walk up to a person in the supermarket and say "Hi, want to buy my pistol?" You actually have to know that they are themselves.
     
  11. Andrewsky

    Andrewsky Member

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    Good plan. I go to the U of M here and quite frankly, I wish I didn't. Every week students get mugged at gunpoint by nice, local African-American gentlemen who are actually really nice people who just had a rough childhood.

    If I could legally carry I wouldn't do anything in this city without a full-size pistol on my hip or in arm's reach.
     
  12. jfh

    jfh Member.

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    "Okay, so the police know that you own a pistol. So what?"

    This observation is, I submit, nothing short of naieve thinking on your part, Jaenak. Big lists are begat from little lists.

    It seems to me that Joel R succinctly described the problem:

    "...If this bill becomes law, every time a handgun or supposedly scary rifle is transferred -- even between two private parties -- the state would keep a list of who bought it, and who sold it, and when."


    We don't need that. Ever.

    Jim H.
     
  13. Andrewsky

    Andrewsky Member

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    It won't matter too much to me or the police whether or not the gangbanger who stuck a gun in my face to steal $10 had a registered pistol or an unregistered pistol, will it?
     
  14. oae

    oae Member

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    getting "proper authorities" to approve gun transactions?

    Sometimes gun owners are their own worst enemy. Jaenak, why would one want to have the so-called "proper authorities" approve or not approve a lawful Minnesotan their unalienable right to sell, trade or borrow a firearm? I am a law abiding citizen of Minnesota who happens to believe that if I sell, trade or borrow a firearm from or to another Minnesotan, the government has NO BUSINESS in my privacy or my guns.

    As firearm laws become more and more government intrusive, when will American citizens figure out that we are incrementally heading toward government gun registration and eventual gun confiscation?

    With the government's help, the guns you now purchase legally from an FFL anywhere in our country are in reality, registered guns. That is a fact. But...one of the few freedoms left to us as gun owners is that we still can sell, trade or borrow firearms currently without government approval or knowledge. If gun rights are unalienable, then why would anyone want the government to define their rights that are not supposed to be infringed upon?

    Our government is entwined with just about everything we do. They feel the need to infringe on more of our rights. As our powerful government grows more powerful, they, through their unchecked power exert more control over individual liberty. Making the claim that the government needs to know of these private party transactions to stop criminals just doesn' hold any water. Criminals always steal firearms from the law abiding and violent criminals just don't attend gun shows.

    OAE
     
  15. ReadyontheRight

    ReadyontheRight Member

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    So...

    "The murder was done by someone with a .357 magnum. Simple. Let's round up all the people we've registered as having a .357 magnum..."

    Suddenly no one has to account for those who DON'T have a registered handgun. Not my job...

    That's "So what?".

    Registration leads to lazy, feel-good law enforcement and tyranny over the law-abiding. Please review the past 220+ years of U.S. Constitutional law and the reasons very smart people created this Constitutional Republic in the first place.

    "So what?":rolleyes:
    :barf:
     
  16. Gingerbreadman

    Gingerbreadman Member

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    Which kind of politician should letters about state bills go to? I see a state representative, a state senator, a U.S. representative, and two U.S. senators listed on this "district finder" page that I am looking at. I am trying to get more involved in this stuff, but I don't recall learning about who is responsible for what back in high school civics. I want to help annihilate these bills.
     
  17. MDHunter

    MDHunter Member

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    In maryland...

    this is how some of us do it in Maryland:

    Check on the state legislature website and find out what committee will be hearing the bill. Then write a letter to ALL of the members of that committee, telling them that you strongly oppose this legislation and why, and ask them to give it an unfavorable report. Get a bunch of your friends to do the same.

    Before bills are heard in Committee, most committee members have their staffers keep track of the amount of correspondence in favor of a bill, and the amount of correspondence opposed. If they don't already have a position on the bill, they will take this mail input into consideration.

    Sharpen those pencils fellas, and get crackin...

    Good luck,

    Michael
     
  18. Gingerbreadman

    Gingerbreadman Member

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    HF3324:
    http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/cco/journals/2007-08/J0221081.htm#7858


    SF2989:
    http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/journals/2007-2008/20080221081.pdf#Page19

    The ones in bold are the comittees that will be considering these bills, correct?
     
  19. NGIB

    NGIB Member

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    Glad I left Minnesota in 1972 never to return, just a little to much like a very cold California in my opinion...
     
  20. MDHunter

    MDHunter Member

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    YUP

    Gingerbreadaman - you got it, the committee that those bills were referred to (the ones you bolded) are the committees that will hear that bill. The state legislature website has email and phone and address info for all of them.

    If anyone on this thread is a Microsoft Word whiz, you can create Mail Merge lists for each of the committees in the House and Senate that hear gun bills; then, you can draft a letter, pull up Mail Merge, and the mail merge will fill in the name and address of each committee member on a separate page, so you can create a set of letters that can be sent to all of the members on the committee in about 30 minutes! If someone on the thread from MN is a Word whiz and has the time, they can create the list and then walk you through how to use it. A guy did it for us on our Maryland Shooters forum, and it was a great help to all of us in drafting letters to the committees.
     
  21. Gingerbreadman

    Gingerbreadman Member

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    Here is the contact information of everyone on the two committees. I'm going to look into the "mail merge list" stuff in a little bit, but if anyone esle wants to, be my guest.

    Committee on Public Safety and Civil Justice:
    http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/comm/committee.asp?comm=6000

    Chair: Joe Mullery [email protected]
    Vice Chair: Jeremy Kalin [email protected]
    Lead-GOP: Paul Kohls [email protected]
    Karla Bigham [email protected]
    Tony Cornish [email protected]
    Chris DeLaForest [email protected]
    Tom Emmer [email protected]
    Debra Hilstrom [email protected]
    Mary Liz Holberg [email protected]
    Sheldon Johnson [email protected]
    Scott Kranz [email protected]
    John Lesch [email protected]
    Leon Lillie [email protected]
    Dave Olin [email protected]
    Michael Paymar [email protected]
    Brita Sailer [email protected]
    Steve Simon [email protected]
    Steve Smith [email protected]
    Torrey Westrom [email protected]


    Committee on Judiciary: http://www.senate.mn/committees/committee_bio.php?cmte_id=1016&ls=85

    Members:
    Chair: Mee Moua [email protected]
    Vice Chair: Mary A. Olson [email protected]
    Ranking Minority Member: Warren Limmer [email protected]
    Member: Don Betzold [email protected]
    Leo Foley [email protected]
    Linda Higgins [email protected]
    Julianne Ortmann [email protected]
    Pat Pariseau [email protected]
    Linda Scheid e-mail form at: http://www.senate.mn/members/member_bio.php?mem_id=1057&ls=85
     
  22. RedLion

    RedLion Member

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    What would we tell them?

    Would we tell them that they are wasting tax payer money by authorizing government oversight that would have no effect on crime? I can't think of very many things to say that people of their attitude would understand.
     
  23. SoCalShooter

    SoCalShooter Member

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    That's for me to know and not you!
    Good luck guys, once you get that registration they only make it worse, trust me I live in California.
     
  24. Jaenak

    Jaenak Member

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    Hmm...okay. So, that I've gathered so far gun registration would have just two problems.

    1. The owners of registered firearms would get arrested for crimes unregistered owners did.
    2. The government would be able to dictate whether or not you get to sell your gun to your neighbor.

    I see some problems here.

    First, just because a person was murdered with a .357 and you own a .357 doesn't mean you have anything to worry about. You are after all innocent until proven guilty. Sort of. They still have to match the ballistics, gather witnesses, find a motive, disprove your alabi, and prove you were at the scene of the crime with your gun when the crime happened. If you didn't do it and it's just a big screw up, then you'll be okay. Broke, but okay. Yes it's not that easy and it's happened the other way before but if you have a decent lawyer and you honestly didn't do it, then you really will be all right.
    Second, if you have to consult the government to sell your pistol to your neighbor I agree it's a pain and it doesn't really seem as if it's anyone else's business but the only time the sale would be turned down legally would be if your neighbor is a felon. I don't know about any of you but I don't care how much I like the guy, if he's a felon, I am NOT selling him my gun. However, if your neighbor is not mentally unstable, is not a felon, and is of legal age, if the government still says no, then it sounds like the 2nd ammendment would have been overruled by that time and it'd be time for a rebellion anyways.

    I'm still not understanding why this bill would be a bad thing. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me.
     
  25. Big_R

    Big_R Member

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    I read this story earlier this week in the local paper (very left leaning). The whole time I kept thinking that a good measure of the legislators from both sides of the aisle who voted in shall-issue are still in the legislature. I have a feeling this one won't get that far.

    The meat of the bill are activities I already take (except filing a report) if I sell a weapon to a private party. I don't sell to people I don't know, and I don't sell to people I wouldn't trust to own that particular weapon. Unfortunately, not everyone takes the same precautions.

    Ryan
     
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