Gun Registration

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txcoyote

Yeah, I know. What I meant is Texas doesnt require registration. I had to fill the paper and he has to give it to the feds. I know the feds know, but the state doesnt require registration.
 
Actually, they don't give the paper to the feds, they do pass on certain information, not including the serial number. And the form 4473 stays on file, which ATF can ask to see under certain circumstances. (Real or imagined.)
 
now if we've learned anything from the movi..... I mean documentary Red Dawn, its that our enemies can use the forms and registration we fill out to come confiscate/harm those of us with weapons. all joking aside (hhhmmm doesn't actually feel like that was a joke), it seems like time has shown registration to be an ineffective way to curb violence but an easy way to get people to give away their freedoms. oh but Tellner I do believe those are refreshing words to come out of someone elses mouth. usually I just mumble them to myself since conservatives and liberals alike tell me to shut the heck up.
 
Big Gay Al

I actually didnt know that. So it stays on file there unless the feds request it?
 
Desperado

So it stays on file there unless the feds request it?
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Yes, but upon the store going out of business, or a change of hands to a new FFL'ed person, those forms all get forwarded to the BATFE. I'm not certain what they do with those forms once they are in their hands, but they will eventually get those 4473's.

Woody

Though we may still exercise our Right to Keep and Bear Arms after filling out a bunch of paperwork, the real issue is the unconstitutional infringement the paperwork represents. That is where the infringements upon our right began. Look what those infringements are today... B.E.Wood
 
In most areas you may sell you firearm to another person with no paper work required. If you bought the gun from a FFL dealer, there's a 4473 with your name on it. Should that gun wind up in some criminal involvement, you are going to get a visit. In a private sale it's best for you to record information from the driver license of the purchaser and keep it in your personal records. CYA is what it's about.
 
Canada sure can't serve as a shining example - but we do make a good "horrible warning".

Registration = future confiscation list. We KNOW this, we don't just suspect it - it's been done up here. Don't let it happen down there.

Oh, and it only cost 2 Billion bucks - and includes registration for at least one hair dryer and soldering iron....
 
"Yes, we keep no records..."

Yes, but upon the store going out of business, or a change of hands to a new FFL'ed person, those forms all get forwarded to the BATFE. I'm not certain what they do with those forms once they are in their hands, but they will eventually get those 4473's.
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A friend of mine was an FFL holder and ran a gun shop for years. According to him, there's an unmarked warehouse in TX, protected by a triple layer of 10 foot high fences, topped with concertina wire and patrolled by M-16 toting "security consultants."

Inside this warehouse are all the form 4473's that the BATFE has collected up over the years. Data entry people are entering the info. from the 4473's into a data base, 24/7/365.

This guy is not a tin-foil hat wearing wild-eyed hillbilly. He is a rational, educated man. Make what you will of what he says, but I would be more surprised if this were not taking place that if it were.

For those of you that think registration is no big deal, it serves but one purpose: To expedite future confiscation. History has proved this again and again.

History cannot be denied.
 
I had heard of the BATFE wharehouse for the 4473 forms, however It was my understanding that they were prevented by law from entering the data from the forms into any sort of database and creating a master list.

However they might be able to create an 'indexing' program which whould have the same effect.

Some of the old skool FFL's used to have a going out of buisness 'accidental bonfire' back before there was a law which actually punished them signifigantly for record keeping inconsistancies.

All this is stuff I've heard from different FFL's over the years, so take it with a grain of salt.

It is my understanding however that while the federal government is prohibited from creating a masterlist of firearms ownership, there is no such provision for preventing government from doing it at the state level.
 
I had heard of the BATFE wharehouse for the 4473 forms, however It was my understanding that they were prevented by law from entering the data from the forms into any sort of database and creating a master list.
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Do you really think the BATFE would hesitate in breaking one more law, considering all the laws they have already broken??

Not a freaking chance!
 
I hate registration, but California requires all handguns to be registered. It's either registration or break the law. Long guns only require a 4473, and if you think that's not registration too, you are deluded. Do you really think the federal government will just throw that information away?

The NRA is our best bet on this one. Join them, and participate in their lobbying efforts to restrict or eliminate registration. Given the choice between fighting registration in court or breaking the law, all of us benefit when one of us chooses to fight in court, or in the voting booth.
 
You know... I'm a very strong proponent of responsible social initiatives toward promoting public safety. I will admit that I am somewhat liberal in most of my political views. I have spent the last 13 years engaged in child welfare and criminal justice / law enforcement-related professional work. I have never shot anyone, and I very, very sincerely doubt (and hope anyway) that I will ever be presented with the need to do so. I do not in any way meet the negative stereotype that many anti-gunners have of a gun-owner, despite the fact that I own many. I believe that there are many very well-meaning and reasonable anti-gun activists, and that there are plenty of pro-gunners that do the movement a great deal of harm through their militant and aggressive expressions. Nonetheless, I enjoy shooting, and my firearms, immensely.

I do not however (as much as this will undoubtedly offend some readers), consider the right to unrestricted firearm ownership as more important the safety and welfare of others. I come from a country where registration and restricted ownership is simply a fact of life; where gun laws exist, ostensibly, to ensure the safety of the community. As a result of my beliefs, and my background, I have struggled with the idea of gun registration for many years. The fact of the matter is, not only would I would embrace registration, I would turn in my firearms tomorrow if I felt for a moment that doing so would make the world a better or safer place.

All that said however, despite trying hard, and despite a very vested interest in the matter, I have personally never found one iota of validity in the assertion that gun registration is necessary, or even beneficial, to the promotion of public safety. Anti-gun activists suggest, to use a gross oversimplification, that a gradual criminalization of gun ownership will ultimately lead to a safer and less violent society. It isn't hard to understand why they would believe this, as it makes perfect sense prima facie. However, very few social phenomena (violence, oppression, racism, etc) are explainable or controllable in simple and unilateral terms. Social dysfunction of any sort is usually the result of a broad array of socio-cultural factors and influences. Violence in America is certainly no different. The argument in favor of gun registration is, IMHO, specious, and based more in emotion that reason. It certainly doesn't bear out empirically. Gun laws fail for exactly the same reason that wholesale criminalization of drugs, prostitution, etc. has failed; it addresses the RESULT of dysfunction, rather than the cause of it.
 
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