Gun Safe Location?

[Sniper66]

Buying a gun safe is past due. I've been dragging my feet because there is no easy location in my small home. It's on a slab with no basement so it has to be either a bedroom or the garage. At present the garage gets the nod. There is simply no room in the house. Are there any problems I should prepare for in an unheated garage? I'll plan to build a cabinet around it to conceal the safe from service people and others who might wonder why I have such a large safe. The one I am considering is about 48" wide. Plan B would be a much smaller one that would fit in the house and only contain my most valuable firearms. I don't really have an extravagant collection, but do have a few guns that are priceless to me; family heirlooms and a few hard to find items. I'll appreciate your thoughts.

 

[OARNGESI]

Mine is in my bedroom in one corner next to a dresser I don’t care for the garage because the idea of someone backing a truck up to my safe is off putting but many do it personally I wish some one would make a safe that couldn’t take the place of your box spring kind of similar to how hotel beds are

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Several options. Small safe to fit in a closet like a Snap Safe as it lets you put it together in the room and so can't be removed whole. Worth a look.

Or, I would think about a Job Box for the garage with some work to the interior to hold things as you like. Check out the old Tread Lock chests for ideas. Plus, a Job Box may draw less attention while also being very solid.

No matter which you do think about a Golden Rod in them as well as some vapor barrier packs and desiccants to keep things from rusting.
I like the idea of a well used Job Box as it may draw less attention, if you buy a new one make it look "used" when you get it.

 

[CapnMac]

Tricky part about slab-on-grade is that there's often a lot less 'slab' than most imagine. Only having 3 1/2" of concrete is all too common. The slab will easily carry a couple tons of safe. But, getting bolts to hold in only 2.75-3" of penetration is tricky (concrete is circa 10x weaker in tension than in compression). Sometimes, a toggle bolt set in Hilti epoxy actually makes more sense. Sometimes.

Now, you point about building a cabinet around a garage safe is valid. Build that bad boy out of galvanized studs and fill the bays with rockwool and you gain another hour of fire protection (if you get a door up to that). Use 4x16x8 concrete block and you'll get a bit more fire protection in a total anonymous enclosure. Both of those options also allow you to put some stout shelves in to stow stuff over the safe.

Now, a person can argue that a CMU closet (particularly with a currugated steel deck "lid" with a concrete topping) actually would take the place of a safe (you'd want a steel door in a rated HM frame with a stout deadbolt).

 

[Deus Machina]

Anchor in the slab if at all possible. If you can, reinforce the slab, or get under it somehow and bolt it through the slab to a big ol' steel plate.

My first thought about placement: do you have an air compressor or something? Tool storage? If possible, build a closet big enough to hide the safe with a separate compartment and door for the compressor/tools/supplies and materials. Reinforce the ever-loving crap out of the safe side, but only as much as you want for the other side. Tearing into a compartment for a compressor tank or a closet full of paint stripper and lumber is a deterrent for searching the other side.

 

[George P]

Garage i not necessarily a bad thing; a lot will depend on the humidity there. When I lived out in arid Northern NV, being in the garage was no issue. In Florida, it can be. IF you put it on the garage slab, put a horse stall mat under it; they usually run about 3/4" of solid rubber and will keep the steel from coming in contact with the concrete.

 

[Labguy47]

I live in Florida, no basement here. I recommend one that goes between the studs.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

If you have a closet that has space at the end a safe could fit into that and not be obvious. Especially if you can keep the clothes hanging in front of it.

 

[rb288]

Bolted to the floor and wall in my bedroom, close to my bed.

 

[shoobe01]

Several aspects to consider:

• Visibility — If no one can see it, then they don't know it's there so if you don't tell everyone and avoid displaying a Gadsen flag in front of the house then reduced chance contractors and neighbors know about it, or where it is.
• Break in resistance — Do get a safe and one rated well. Don't assume hiding is enough!
• Theft resistance — The easier it is to install, the easier it is to just steal the safe. Once installed, bolt it down, and bolt it down well (as has been said above) as the back of a garage etc can allow for things like dragging it out with winches.
• Fireproofing — Fire resistance times are for paper. Lots of paper in stacks can handle a lot of heat, and singed paper is still paper, can be read, traded, etc. Guns are not the same at all. 30 minutes of "fireproof" is maybe 8 minutes for the guns. Get the best fireproofing you can afford and plan accordingly.
• Fire resistance — Sticking the safe along an outer wall can help reduce heat a lot. If not on the ground floor, planning for where it will fall (outside, instead of into the hot basement is better) on collapse, etc. Adding more walls, as discussed above, is also good. Drywall is the main fire resistance inside safes, so a studwall (ideally with steel studs!) around the safe, and doubled-up drywall, will add some decent time to the fire resistance, can add some obscuring or barriers for breakin.
• Avoid other threats — Garages? They are full of flammable things. At least, cars which are full of gasoline. Your 30 minutes is for house fires, wood, fabric, foam, paper, etc. 25 gallons of gasoline 6 ft away? All bets are off. So think about distance, other barriers. If you have a shelf of chemicals, think about making a latching cabinet of chemicals instead; even if not explicitly fireproof, with good fire service response, 2 minutes of fire-resistance may be enough to save the house (and safe).
• More layers of protection — Everything is time based. You don't have fireproof anything, but fire resistance for a time period. The rated time assumes you have an alarm or occupants/neighbors to raise the alarm, and a fire department in reasonable range. Same for break-in. Networked security cameras are cheap, so (what I am doing) if you have the safe entrance where no one normally goes, set a camera to look there and send an alert for motion there to your phone. If you are going to get to the safe and the phone buzzes, ignore it. Otherwise check it out to see what set it off. And keep the local PD number in your phone so there's no 911 transfers if you are well away from home and need them to come stop the bad guys.

 

[cheygriz]

Garage, bolted in.

 

[George P]

If you have a closet that has space at the end a safe could fit into that and not be obvious. Especially if you can keep the clothes hanging in front of it.

48" w, and I am betting at least 24 if not 28 deep PLUS the dial and handle might male it difficult to fit through a standard-sized door frame. That was the issue I ran into.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Well, maybe a couple smaller safes might work then..?

 

[Kendahl]

I'm aware of one burglary where they stole the entire safe. The owners were gone on vacation when the burglars struck. Best guess is they backed a truck into the garage, which is where the safe was located, and had enough accomplices to lift it into the truck. Most burglars are petty criminals looking for property they can fence with minimal exertion on their part and no confrontation with the owners. They strike when no one is home and hit the master bedroom for jewelry, the medicine cabinet for prescription drugs and the living room or family room for electronics. (That suggests you should pick other rooms for hiding places.) Petty criminals can be defeated by a locked container that is strong enough to resist a sledge hammer and a pry bar and difficult to steal outright because it's too big and heavy or is bolted down.

My idea of the ultimate in safe storage would be:

• A safe large enough for my collection including future additions.
• Bolted down in a corner with the door opening against a wall.
• 2x4s or 4x4s bolted to the floor and walls around the safe to block access to pry bars.

If I wanted to make it a major project, I would build a sturdy cabinet, with a locking door, around the safe. The walls would fit closely enough to block access to pry bars but would leave room to slide the safe straight out after the bolts securing it to the floor were removed. This would provide multiple levels of security. After the burglars broke through the cabinet door, they would be faced with demolishing the entire cabinet to give themselves room to work on the safe.

 

[LoneGoose]

Lots of good advice here. So I'll throw in my two cents:

Instead of KendaHL', 2x4s, I went with angle iron. I bolted them to a block wall and then put the safe against that wall (bolted to the floor). The safe covered the bolt heads, and there wasn't enough room to get a chain or strap around it. Good luck.

 

[shoobe01]

I'm aware of one burglary where they stole the entire safe. The owners were gone on vacation when the burglars struck. Best guess is they backed a truck into the garage, which is where the safe was located, and had enough accomplices to lift it into the truck...

Many thefts of all sorts involve removing items en masse. Standard operating procedure for safes of all sorts, increasingly common for ATMs. I know of cases like people stealing entire bike racks from the front of schools; this is one reason those are so often now embedded in concrete, because it became just common enough.

Equipment helps. Hoists, winches, liftgates. Borrow a truck from work or first steal one, then steal stuff from homes with it. Even just the now-ubiquitous flatbed "towtruck" can steal most anything as it tilts down, has a winch to haul it onto the truck. Look bored and wear a hi-viz vest and no one will probably ask what you are up to as it's just another workman. This happens. Video of neighbors waving to the thieves and all.

 

[SilentStalker]

I have not read through all of this and not sure if I could offer more than the others even tho I am pretty knowledgeable on this subject. First things first, get the best/biggest safe you can afford. Most are a waste of time and money. Make sure it’s bolted down but I would not put it in the garage for several reasons. Next, in short you need to layer security, get a dog or dogs, security system and try to hide it as best you can. I repeat, layer and do not put in the garage if you have any other area it could go. Does your garage face the street? If so, you are advertising everytime you open the garage unless you can make it look like a refrigerator or something.

 

[kheeka]

Seems like most suggestions here for beefing up a safe install are all defeated by a simple angle grinder with a cutting wheel. Face it their is no such thing as an impermeable safe especially gun safes, best you can hope for is to slow them down.

 

[Whiterook808]

Mine is in the garage, bolted down. Attack Wife is home all day when I am at work, armed and ready. I live in a suburban environment and the neighbors would have the police on the way if someone backed a truck up to my garage. I have retirees on both sides and across the street, someone is around most of the time.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Garage, bolted down, structure behind to make cable attachment difficult. I have 1/8" angle steel to support the safe off the floor and protect from tools being used under the safe.

The safe is a Sturdy with enhanced walls and door. A brown flannel sheet draped over it makes it melt into the shadows. When away, I park a car in front of it. I have a rechargeable desiccant hanging off the rack.

I don't store flammables in the garage and lock up tools that could be used for break in.

 

[Jim Watson]

Once upon a time safes could be had with phials of "war gas" in the doors.
Drill or rough up one and get gassed.
Google says at least some were loaded with phosgene.

 

[Ignition Override]

Remember funerals. Have somebody inside your home whenever you leave to attend any.
Burglars check newspapers etc to see who died. They know the funeral date and who the survivors are.

A former coworker had a small, lightweight safe stolen when he went to his father's funeral. They know that you will be gone for a while as they Watch you leave and wait about 10 min. to make sure.

 

[FL-NC]

I keep my 2 in "my" room in the house (advantage of a 4 BR house with only 2 people living in it). They are quality safes, in a low crime area. It took 6 in-shape guys to move them (while empty) inside a totally empty house after moving them through an empty garage (they won't even fit through the front or back door) with a plan and the correct equipment. I feel they are as secure as they can be, unless someone wants to take out a wall in the front of the house, and then employ a plan and the required equipment- which I feel would not go unnoticed, especially since my neighbors can't NOT pay attention to what goes on around my house. As far as the garage, I kept my safes for a while in a garage at a previous house, in a high humidity area- I liberally coated the metal on my guns with motor oil applied with a small paint brush, and never had any issues with corrosion, including during months-long overseas deployments.