Gun safe or more guns?

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Ed, I'm sorry - but I strongly disagree, especially in light of the laws today which tend to want to make a victim into the criminal. Fail to secure your weapons, local punks break in, steal the guns and kill someone....enjoy the lawsuit.
Besides - as a practical matter, most folks have things that would go into the safe and enjoy the added protection.
 
TR: Using your theory, you are responsible if someone steals your car (far more dangerous than any gun) and rams it into a bystander. You should not accept that responsibility. You may be responsible if your minor child does it, but not a stranger.

It does you nothing but harm to accept responsibility for the actions of criminals. Don't do it. Your obligation, by law and reasonable standard, exists only when you have reason to believe the guns could be used by kids (not because someone busted your window and stole your stuff) and is met using cable locks, frame locks, etc...which are free for the asking or a few dollars each. A safe is not the only, or even the most reasonable, way to lock a firearm.

I agree you may have non-firearm valuables to protect...I think I mentioned that in my post...but most gun owners have more $$$$ in their music collection than in firearms.
 
Ed, it's not a theory - it's a somewhat jaded view of our current legal system. Think about it - if the guns aren't locked and a kid gets hold of it breaking into your house, is some overzealous DA gonna bring you up on charges? Do you want to run that risk?
A safe is, to me, just cheap peace of mind....
 
"No safe" and "not locked" are NOT synonymous. A safe is just one of many ways to lock a firearm. A very expensive way that far exceeds any reasonable standard.

Knives, power tools, cars, household chemicals, and many other everyday items are as vulnerable to abuse as firearms. A reasonable person would expect all of them to be locked away from casual abuse. Cars have built in locks, chemicals are stored in (sometimes locked) cupboards in locked houses, many new (especially stationary) power tools have built in locks and those that don't (your chainsaw) are typically kept in locked sheds or garages. Most tool boxes can be locked. If you leave ANY dangerous item lying around you can find yourself liable for damages ... and NOBODY expects you to put ANY of those things in a safe.

It is unreasonable, and more than a little foolish, to accept a special standard for firearms just because. Don't fall for the anti's fearmongering. Firearms are not magic, they aren't evil, and they don't require extreme precautions compared to any of the hundreds of other dangerous things you have around your house. Lock them just as you would lock dangerous chemicals or tools IF you have reason to believe irresponsible people (i.e. minor children, drunks) will be around. Otherwise lock your doors when you leave and you are fine.

Is a safe better? Absolutely. I have a safe. I like safes. But better isn't necessary.

As for theory...Every hypothetical is a theory until proved. It is unlikely your theory (jaded view) will ever be proved in either of our cases.
 
Between buying a safe or more guns I'd say get the safe if you have a sizable collection of firearms (one that will out value the safe).

I recently got a safe and am very happy I did so. Nothing would suck quite as much as losing all my guns due to theft or a fire. Gun safes are also great places to store other important and valuable stuff like birth certificates and titles to automobiles and property. They are certainly a lot more secure then most office safes you find.
 
Well, to each his own - yet while you advise others against a safe, you already have one. While I'd not tell someone with 1 or 2 guns (and not likely to get more) to buy one, I would advise those planning to start collecting to get a safe - in the long run it beats coming home to find 'em gone, especially since most homeowner insurance covers only a VERY small amount of gun loss - something like 2k, IIRC. Heck - any 3 pistols I own will total that (or more).
 
Just to be accurate: I didn't advise against a safe, I said it was unnecessary.

Safes have value. They are good. They aren't necessary or necessarily the best place to spend your money, especially if you only have a few firearms and are in a low threat environment (suburban, etc).

If you are in a high threat environment you should consider off-site storage first. Having a safe installed in your apartment in the bad part of town, or your dorm room, just makes your situation worse. Get a self storage unit and install the safe there, or better yet move.

Just my $36.85.
 
That's right -- you aren't going to need a collection.

Let's say you have a gun collection worth $5K (though this works just as well for 50K or 500K...maybe even 38K). At any given time you can use only a fraction of that (2 hands, right?), the rest you store. You don't use the stored collection. You use a weapon or two.

Let's say you live in a high burglary risk environment. You can choose to to store everything in your home, exposing everything to a single event (fire or burglary), or you can store maybe $4.5K worth of the guns off-site in a lower risk environment (better part of town, better security, fewer people in the building using candles for mood lighting) and keep a pistol and shotgun at home, securing them with cable locks when not in use.

A gun in your safe isn't going to be useful if someone busts down your door or mugs you as you walk in the park. Doesn't matter if the safe is at home or in a self-storage unit.
 
Ed - I've lived in high risk environments. Perhaps you haven't had to, but I have. A weapon or two restricts you in terms of location and/or selection. So, thanks for your concern - but I'll keep mine close by and handy.
 
Risk is subjective. Dunno if we'd view each other's situations as "high risk" and don't see how it answers the OP's question. I got a theory... but I'll leave it unsaid. :)


IMO safes are great, but:
A) they aren't perfect so you still need insurance.
B) they can create security risks of their own by telegraphing the existence and location of valuables.
C) they restrict mobility...not walking around mobility but "I don't like this neighborhood let's leave" because they are expensive or difficult to move.
D) Not all residences offer a suitable location for safe mounting, and unattached safes are a waste of time.
E) they take up money that could go to making significant quality of life enhancements (better home, more guns, etc) without necessarily providing long-term savings.
F) they are not necessary for meeting potential legal obligations.
G) They are not cheap. Oh, you can get a small utility firesafe good for pistols for $300, but a reasonable gunsafe will cost 3-10 times that.

Which translates, to me, into: you should buy the best gun safe you can after you are well settled in an otherwise secure location and have the resources to make the purchase painless -- OR as soon as you have items which cannot be replaced in a reasonable time frame. That can mean sentimental value, true collector's items, NFA items, or ANY weapon if you live in a restrictive jurisdiction with difficult to get permits for each purchase.

If you need a safe you know you need it. You can articulate a set of reasons why it is necessary. If you don't? Buy guns, buy ammo, go shooting.
 
No matter how it's twisted, I am not responsible for the actions of another person that I have never met. There isn't a DA in the world that will convince a jury to convict me because someone broke into my house and used a gun that they stole from my residence.
 
Well, I didn't have a safe for about 10 years, but I only had 5 guns, none worth more than ~$300, and nothing I was too scared about a criminal getting his hands on (pump shotgun, a couple .22s, and a muzzleloader).

When our new president got elected, I bought an AR-15. Now I had something I WAS worried about a BG getting ahold of, and the value of my collection was greater than the cost of a safe. That was how I made my decision I needed one. Now I don't feel guilty when I bring home another gun.
 
My Opinion

Every gun owner needs at least a good RSC, in this day and age; as there
are far too many crack/meth headed thieves roaming the neighborhoods
just look'in for a residence too break into, grab all the valuables that they
can tote and make a fast get-a-way. Then they trade the valuables to a
"fence" for drugs too support their habit. We need to make it as difficult
as possible for these types, with hopes that a legally armed citizen can
stop 'em dead in their tracks~! ;)
 
Buy a good safe that comes with a fire rating

There is a good peace of mind that comes with owning a good safe. Good safes are not cheap. My safe is a Liberty safe. It was on sale for 1,100.00. It holds 20 or so rifles depending on how you place them and a dozen or so hand guns, again depending on placement. An added bonus is that you also have a nice secure place for jewelry or important papers, laptops, etc when you head out on vacation. You also want to secure it so that the entire safe cannot be removed from your house and loaded onto a pick-up truck. This is the most difficult part. Talk to the dealer about methods of securing the safe to the floor.
 
In my neck of the woods there have been several instances where kids got hold of a weapon while visiting another kid's home. In 99.0% of the cases the law has held the gun owner responsible. If there are children about, yours or your neighbors, guns of any type need to be locked in a safe or locked with trigger guards or other locking devices. All are cheap compared to what will be fall you if your gun is taken and used by a kid....this means anyone under 18 years of age. Kids come in all sizes. Home defense is not an easy matter. Every gun I own is locked in a safe except one. That one's storage is known only to me. Hopefully this reduces my risk.
 
Sigh. Nobody here is advocating leaving unlocked guns around. Everyone here agrees that gun owners can be prosecuted for leaving unlocked guns in places where they have reasonable cause to believe children could access them, when those children cause harm. The discussion is very far beyond that.

Safes are just one way to lock firearms. They have some strong advantages and also some very strong disadvantages.

Many people here advocate safes in cases where they are very far from optimal. Some go so far as to say that safes are the only responsible choice. That sort of thinking does gun owners no service. It is perfectly safe and responsible to have guns without a safe. In some cases buying a safe is not the responsible thing to do. If you are at a point in your life where a safe is the right choice by all means buy a safe. If you aren't -- if the money could be better spent on something else -- then you shouldn't think you have no security options at all, or that your choice is evil.

The "must have a safe to be responsible" meme is the product of anti-gun rhetoric.
 
I think you mistake my desire to keep what's mine with a decision to bow to anti-gun idiots. While MOST of my collection is in the safe, you can bet that there's a number of 'em that ain't.

The trick is ta figger out whether they're close to me or not.... :D
 
A gun safe is also a moderation aid....

Safes not only make it difficult for kids to access guns, the also make it difficult for a burglar to disseminate our weapons for who-knows-what eventual purpose. Guns are very marketable items, much like some prescription drugs. Nursing homes, hospitals, etc always lock up the narcotics because that's the stuff that gets swiped. It's just the responsible thing to do. Guns get priority attention from any thief and we do have a civic responsibility to at least not make it easy for them to steal our firearms. If someone steals my TV, at least they can't use the TV to harm others. They can definitely use my guns to do harm, so I keep them locked up.

It's kind of like not leaving harmful chemicals within easy reach of a toddler. There are certain minimum steps one should take.

About the "moderation" in the title: I tend to be an accumulator so I use my safe to limit myself. It's at capacity so I need to remove something to make room for anything new. It keeps the sprawl down.
 
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Legalities aside, having a solid and secure safe available makes perfect sense for the responsible homeowner and gun owner. The last thing any of us wants is for a thief to steal a prized firearm (or an entire collection) for want of a sensible and reasonably priced purchase.

I don't know about anyone else, but the thought of some lowlife walking down the street with any one of my firearms tucked away on his person sends shivers down my spine.
 
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