Gun Safes - Any secrets

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Archery;

That, of course, depends on the hinges. But probably yes, it'll be bad for them. They will not have been sized to take the extra burden over time.

BCC;

I'll strongly suggest that you not store your ammo in the safe with your guns. If there's a home fire that pops even one primer, when that round goes, it'll probably ignite the rest. Which results in a cloud of incandescent gas in your Liberty. I'm not saying it'll become a bomb, or the bullets will penetrate the walls. What I'm saying is that the gas will pretty much destroy whatever other contents you've got in there.

900F
 
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1. Used, locksmith certified safes are an economically smart solution. Look for old businesses, especially jewelers, going out of business and being torn down. Be willing to remove the safe yourself. Take it to a locksmith and have him go through it and insure it has many more years of use. Real safes are made well. Many will outlast your guns and yourself with little care. The problem with older commercial safes is weight and interior storage space. They were made for cash and documents, not guns. However, if you have a couple of prized irreplaceable handguns and the wife's diamonds, they are the cat's meow.

2. Have more than one safe. Keep a RSC for your inexpensive stuff. They will do the trick most of the time. Bolt it down in a closet against a corner to make it more difficult to lean/pry loose. Bolt it to the wall as well as the floor. If possible, bolt it to two walls and the floor.

3. Get a real safe, and do consider a used commercial unit, for more expensive items and guns. Hide it better than the RSC. Let only a select few people know about this safe. Let the RSC be a decoy. Thieves will probably know you have guns. They see you at the range or buying ammunition. They follow you home, taking notes from the street. The break in comes later. Thieves work against a time frame to avoid getting caught. Keep them busy with the RSC.

4. Take high resolution digital photographs of your valuables that include the serial numbers and your driver's license. Store copies away from your home in a safety deposit box, both on a flash drive and a hard copy. Store copies on a flash drive on a lanyard inside your safe to be grabbed in an emergency evacuation such as Katrina. Finally, consider uploading copies to a secure photo hosting site for use if all else fails. I advise doing this with all your important documents, even including your animals vaccination records.

5. I do not sell safes. This is only my opinion. I am not a professional locksmith, safe vendor or an expert in anything. My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. I have stayed at the Holiday Inn Express.
 
I agree with the others, I guess it depends on how safe you want the firearms to be, I would not go with anything less than a 1 hour heat rated safe, I have the Browning Medallion safe that holds alot of the higher value guns and stuff, but i would recomend if you keep money, important documents in it to buy one of the small fire safes, like the 30 or 40 dollar ones to keep that stuff in just in case the safe does not protect all the things in it, it might give you a little better chance on saving vital records and the cash.
 
I don't know when they stopped, because the new ones are not like this, but my old Liberty safe has a door that is 1/4" with an 1/8" body. I need a bigger safe to add to this one and am in a quandry of what to buy myself. Work has a big old Mosler in the basement. I may try to buy it from them. I don't think they ever use it any more. They gave me the Mosler that used to be in Security, but it is a small safe. (about 30x40x30) I gave it to my brother for putting valuables in.

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Archery;

That, of course, depends on the hinges. But probably yes, it'll be bad for them. They will not have been sized to take the extra burden over time.

BCC;

I'll strongly suggest that you not store your ammo in the safe with your guns. If there's a home fire that pops even one primer, when that round goes, it'll probably ignite the rest. Which results in a cloud of incandescent gas in your Liberty. I'm not saying it'll become a bomb, or the bullets will penetrate the walls. What I'm saying is that the gas will pretty much destroy whatever other contents you've got in there.

900F
Thanks.

I wanted a Sturdy brand. I got some quotes from them. Money is tight now. I also like the Zanoti Armor brand. I have not seen any prices for them yet.

I wonder if a safe were to look like a freezer or refrigerator, if it would be a good idea.
 
I recently purchased a couple a safes from U.S. Safes here in So Cal. They sell blemished and discontinued (colors) safes from Canon Safes. About half price. They have a website but no prices listed....Check out their Ebay store for prices and inventory. Lifetime warranty.
Bruce
 
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I noticed a big fat MADE IN CHINA sticker on the back. Man, I tell you, I turned about three shades of green, and did a lot of cussing. When I got over it, I came to terms with the fact that its a decent safe for short money.

Some of the Centurion Safes (by Liberty) are made in China. I was told by Liberty that the Centurion safes with a single handle are made in China, while Centurion safes with 3 handles are made in the U.S. I don't know if it's fact.

I read this just after buying one of those Liberty safes thinking I had just nabbed a bargain. I've been looking for a good buy for a while and just didn't have the money for a $1200 one. After some research I found out that Liberty made these outsourced Chinese safes all the way up to the 23 cubic ft. Centurions. The aggravating thing about this was that the sales people at Lowes were convinced they were all US made vs the Stack On brand, etc... Liberty's spokes people even admitted that this was not broadcast evidenced by the fact that nowhere on their website do they admit these safes are made in China. I was aggravated by this and let them know it was deceptive advertising or marketing. Those safes have parts mailed to China where they make the safes and install the US locks. The safes are shipped directly to Lowes from overseas so Liberty does not see them( according to Liberty). Even Sams Club supposedly requested Liberty to sell them cheaper Chinese made safes.
I called and shopped around for similar sized safes and found that US safes are upwards of $900 for the 20 cubic ft and larger. There is the shipping to add on to that. At this point I don't know if I should get a refund and save for a truly US made product ( I mean I want to support our economy here) or if I should just accept delivery and be done with it. I think any safe can be broken into and my guns are not necessarily collectors items and should be covered by an extra insurance rider. So $597 with free shipping for a 20 Cubic ft model or save and get the next size up for $1400 after delivery/taxes? I do have an alarm system as well.
 
I don't know when they stopped, because the new ones are not like this, but my old Liberty safe has a door that is 1/4" with an 1/8" body

They stopped as soon as they realized that they could fool people into buying their products at twice the price using half the materials. Just about all of the gun safe manufacturers are guilty of this.

The aggravating thing about this was that the sales people at Lowes were convinced they were all US made vs the Stack On brand, etc...

I don't think you're going to find many people at any big box store that know much of anything.

Liberty's spokes people even admitted that this was not broadcast evidenced by the fact that nowhere on their website do they admit these safes are made in China.

Of course they won't admit it. If you look on a manufacturer's website and it says "Made in US" then it might be. If it doesn't say, then it's an import. They admit it by omission, and sometimes down right lie.

Those safes have parts mailed to China where they make the safes and install the US locks.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but those locks are made in China as well.

The safes are shipped directly to Lowes from overseas so Liberty does not see them( according to Liberty).

Uh huh. Then explain how these exact same safes are shown in the Liberty catalog, on their website, and appear in showrooms of Liberty dealers.

I called and shopped around for similar sized safes and found that US safes are upwards of $900 for the 20 cubic ft and larger. There is the shipping to add on to that.

Anything less than $1,500 that is US built is going to be of questionable quality. Remember what I said above also. Some companies are claiming their safes are made in the US when they are Chinese as well.

So $597 with free shipping for a 20 Cubic ft model

Think about this for one second.

A Chinese company builds and equips a safe manufacturing facility. They have to pay for utilities and slave wages for the employees.

They then purchase raw materials. Steel, plastic, fabric, paint, gysum board, etc... All of these materials have to be converted into a safe.

After the safe is finished, they have to furnish a box and a skid for it. It's then loaded into a container and trucked to a port.

At the port, it's loaded onto a ship and sailed halfway around the world to the US.

From there (usually California), the containers are unloaded and placed onto a train or truck and tranported to a distribution facility. From there, it is trucked to individual retail locations.

At the retail locations, they have overhead such as advertising, rent, taxes, insurance, etc, so the product has to be sold at a profit.

Start subtracting all of these costs from that $597, and you will soon realize that you're actually dealing with a box that cost less than $100 to build.
 
I purchased 2 Sturdy safes - non-fire lined. They are in, but I have not picked them up from where I had them shipped, so I can't opine on them yet, but I am betting they will do what I need.

The reason I went with Sturdy was that in the price range that I paid, there were no other RSCs that had enough material in the side walls for a bolt to hold on to.

Update - I went and picked up one of them. That is all I could haul home at one time in my truck.

I'm very pleased with it. It is quite a beast, and left me wishing I had opted for the next smaller size since I have two. However, extra space = more guns soon, so that is good.

The 7 gauge steel is heavy enough that no one is going to beat a hole in it easily. I own plenty of brute force tools including 6' long pry bars and tanker bars, which are stored out back in a shop, but the way the door fits into the frame I think it would be pretty hard to get a bite with a bar anywhere on it. Two of them bolted side by side from the inside = around 1400 pounds, so no one is going to wander off with it either.

It is not a impenetrable monster such as a commercial safe, but as RSC's go it is very well built. I got a very good price and good service, and would highly recommend Sturdy. There is nothing fancy about it - no frills - it's just a heavy steel box, well fit, solid lock, and it beats the heck out of a closet for storing guns. If someone wanted it bad enough, they could get it, but in my situation they would have to want it pretty bad.
 
I am looking for a safe. Today I saw Patriot safe are 1/2 off with free shipping in the U.S. They likely mean CONUS.
They are assembled in the US but outsource the building of parts.
 
They are assembled in the US but outsource the building of parts.

Are you sure about that? Have you seen their assembly line here in the US with your own two eyes?

It's funny how their US assembled safes are identical to some safes that come here directly from China. It's even more amazing that the Patriot gun safe line is owned by Merlo, one of the largest asian safe importers.

I would ask for a tour so you can see their US based operations.
 
I am looking for a safe. Today I saw Patriot safe are 1/2 off with free shipping in the U.S. They likely mean CONUS.
They are assembled in the US but outsource the building of parts.
Patriot aka Homeland Security aka Sportsman Steel = junk. We're talking world class snake oil salesmen here who specialize in high pressure and BS specs/claims.

Hate to burst the Sturdy bubble, but they're not much better. I moved one of those things for a guy a while back and couldn't believe how much he paid and how little he got. No UL listing and no test information to back up fire claims.
 
I am tempted to just get the biggest RSC I can find and weld 3/16" plates on all sides.

I do Diecast Die repair and have access to steel plates from time to time.

Will this be bad for the hinges, to have the extra weight?
Beefing up the sides/back will have no effect on the hinges as it will be un-hinged weight. If you start adding weight to the door, then you'll have problems.
 
I think this is more of a matter of talking to the proper person. The typical contact at AMSEC that answers these questions is a customer service rep who probably has no background in the security business. They are also reading information out of a book.

I have never had a problem getting real answers when I've needed them, but most of the time I already know and have no reason to ask.
Try asking for the steel thickness on an Amvault safe or the gun safe equivalent which used to be and may still be called The Armory. I'm betting the "proprietary" term will pop up again. I can tell you if they can't/won't. :)
 
Patriot aka Homeland Security aka Sportsman Steel = junk. We're talking world class snake oil salesmen here who specialize in high pressure and BS specs/claims.

I agree with you here. Just a side note, there are several companies that use the Patriot name. I would stay away from all of them, albeit for different reasons for each.

No UL listing and no test information to back up fire claims.

Sturdy uses a ceramic insulation, and it's well known that I'm not a fan. Sturdy and I have had this conversation a few times right here on this very board.

However, the fact that they do not have a UL RSC rating doesn't have a thing to do with the security of their safe. ANY steel box, 12 gauge or thicker, using a UL listed lock would pass this test. Heck, a lot of tool boxes would pass this test.

Try asking for the steel thickness on an Amvault safe or the gun safe equivalent which used to be and may still be called The Armory. I'm betting the "proprietary" term will pop up again. I can tell you if they can't/won't.

Why not measure it yourself using the alarm access hole? Just curious though, why is the steel thickness on an AMVAULT composite safe important?
 
I refuse to get the digital locks, because I have never seen one that works well.
Huh? How many have you looked at? None.
Come see mine, I use it every day.

A Chinese company builds and equips a safe manufacturing facility. They have to pay for utilities and slave wages for the employees.

They then purchase raw materials. Steel, plastic, fabric, paint, gysum board, etc... All of these materials have to be converted into a safe.

After the safe is finished, they have to furnish a box and a skid for it. It's then loaded into a container and trucked to a port.

At the port, it's loaded onto a ship and sailed halfway around the world to the US.

From there (usually California), the containers are unloaded and placed onto a train or truck and tranported to a distribution facility. From there, it is trucked to individual retail locations.

At the retail locations, they have overhead such as advertising, rent, taxes, insurance, etc, so the product has to be sold at a profit.

Start subtracting all of these costs from that $597, and you will soon realize that you're actually dealing with a box that cost less than $100 to build.
So then the U.S. made safes should be cheaper, yes?
No. Instead of cheap labor, the U.S. company has to deal with unions, government regulations, federal taxes, state taxes, real estate taxes, OSHA, worker's comp, lazy employees, frivolous lawsuits, sick leave, maternity leave, vacation pay, EPA guidelines, hazardous materials (paint), and an endless array of paperwork.
So your $100 Chinese safe is the same as your $100 American safe. The money is just spent in other places.

Don't get me wrong. I like buying American, but it's just about impossible anymore.
 
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The fact that safe manufacturers offer a lifetime warranty on the mechanical lock, vs. warrantying the electronic lock for only a couple years, is telling enough to know which is more reliable.
 
So then the U.S. made safes should be cheaper, yes?
No. Instead of cheap labor, the U.S. company has to deal with unions, government regulations, federal taxes, state taxes, real estate taxes, OSHA, worker's comp, lazy employees, frivolous lawsuits, sick leave, maternity leave, vacation pay, EPA guidelines, hazardous materials (paint), and an endless array of paperwork.
So your $100 Chinese safe is the same as your $100 American safe. The money is just spent in other places.

Don't get me wrong. I like buying American, but it's just about impossible anymore.

I agree with you. What I was saying wasn't a "Buy American" rant as much as it was a "$500 isn't getting you nearly what you think it is" rant. :)
 
I agree with you here. Just a side note, there are several companies that use the Patriot name. I would stay away from all of them, albeit for different reasons for each.
I'm referring specifically to the Patriot safes made in CA that pop up at the top of the page when you Google "gun safes". Yes, they pay dearly for such positioning. My advice would be to stay away from factory direct only period.



Sturdy uses a ceramic insulation, and it's well known that I'm not a fan. Sturdy and I have had this conversation a few times right here on this very board.

However, the fact that they do not have a UL RSC rating doesn't have a thing to do with the security of their safe. ANY steel box, 12 gauge or thicker, using a UL listed lock would pass this test. Heck, a lot of tool boxes would pass this test..
So they're on here?... cool. It's always fun to hear different manufacturers attempt to defend their claims. I'd like to see the source of your claim that ANY steel box with a UL listed lock will pass the RSC test.

Why not measure it yourself using the alarm access hole? Just curious though, why is the steel thickness on an AMVAULT composite safe important?
First, there is no alarm access or any other hole in these safes unless it's ordered that way. Most people want to know the steel thickness of a safe (at least the gun safe crowd) when they shop around. In a composite, the steel obviously acts as little more a form to pour the concrete, nuts, bolts, and metal shavings into, but most still want to worry about steel thickness.
 
The fact that safe manufacturers offer a lifetime warranty on the mechanical lock, vs. warrantying the electronic lock for only a couple years, is telling enough to know which is more reliable.
Actually, you're wrong about that. Until recently, Cannon, for example, offered a longer warranty period on electronic locks than they did mechanical... 5 years vs 3. Fort Knox still incorporates the locks into their lifetime warranty which covers both parts and labor.

Might want to check the lifetime warranty on other brands as most cover parts only under that lifetime warranty. Labor is usually 1-2 years. If you get locked out due to a lock failure, paying for parts will be the least of your worries.
 
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If I had said that all manufacturers offer lifetimes on mechanicals and limited years on electronics, you'd be right, and I'd be wrong.

But that's not what I said.

But hey, you're the SafeGuy and this is in fact Champion's warranty.
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If I had said that all manufacturers offer lifetimes on mechanicals and limited years on electronics, you'd be right, and I'd be wrong.

But that's not what I said.

But hey, you're the SafeGuy and this is in fact Champion's warranty.
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Sorry, but you're the one who didn't qualify your statement. For the record, I sell Champion safes as well, but that changes nothing I said about lock warranties.
 
That's okay; no harm done. I was just stating the fact that safe manufacturers offer a lifetime warranty on the mechanical lock while warrantying the electronic lock for only a couple years. If I have to back it up with a copy of a manufacturer's warranty, no problemo.
 
SafeGuy
I visited your site. Nice stuff you have for sale. My research included Ft Knox and Browning. Cadillac RSCs!
I ended up with Sturdy. They have a well designed door and linkage. The fully supported bolts and the 12 bend body helps to make the door strong and tight. They use the S&G 6730 combination lock which I have been told is pretty good. I like that I can change/adjust my own combination.
With the decals installed I like the way my safe looks.

The after the sale service puts me in direct contact with the factory in Fresno California USA. They have been outstanding right down to helping me get it off the truck and into the house.

Comparing Sturdy's product to Patriot is like comparing a new Ford Taurus to a Kia.

Sturdy just added prices to their website! Have a look.
 
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