Gun Selection: 1930s

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Nightcrawler-
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Lone Star
 
I think that Colt did not chamber the 1911A1 or Government Model in 9 m/m until the mid '50's when they introduced the Commander. .45 ACP and .38 Super were the only choices in the mid '30's.
 
Handguns:

C-96 Broomhandle Mauser.
Merwin and Hulbert revolvers.
Colt 1905 in .38 ACP.
Spanish Astra M-21/400, in 9mm Largo. A full-power blowback.
Webley/Fosbery auto-revolver.
Webley Royal Irish Constabulary and Bulldog revolvers.
Remington Double Derringer.
Colt DA Frontier.


Longguns:

Colt Lightning pump rifles.
Winchester 94's, 1886's, and 92's.
Remington Model 14 pump rifles. "Gamemaster"?
Winchester Hi and Low-wall single shot rifles.
Trapdoor Springfields were very common surplus guns.
Remington Rolling Block rifles.
Enfield #1 Mk. III. bolt guns.
Martini-Henry single shot rifles.
 
Nightcrawler,

There was the .22 Ace, a conversion unit for the .45, which tried to approximate the recoil from the .45 ball ammo.

Other than that, I don't know of any other calibers.

Browning did design a 9.8mm round put into a 1911-style gun that was submitted for Romanian military trials, but it was pretty much unknown in this country, and was never adopted by anyone. Ammo is rare, guns are exceedingly rare.
 
Maybe someone mentioned these already:

-The 30-40 Krag was readily available. Either VFWs or American Legions had them on hand to rent out for deer hunting - might be interesting to work into a 1930s story.
-Weren't full auto BARs and Thompson submachine guns available to the public until 1934?
-The Ithaca Auto and Burgler
autoburg.gif


http://www.webleyweb.com/tle/le970315-03.html

"The Ithaca Auto and Burglar
By L. Neil Smith
[email protected]

Exclusive to The Libertarian Enterprise

The faded magazine ad haunts us across six long decades of stupidity and corruption:


"Here's the Ithaca Auto and Burglar gun, the so-called "Sawed Off Shot Gun" which holdup men fear because its load of sixteen buckshot spread over such a wide circle that a poor gun pointer, who would miss with a revolver or pistol ... is very sure to hit ... handy to carry in the pocket of an auto or in a holster ... Detective Harry Loose ... first induced the banks in and around Chicago to use it, then its use spread to sheriffs, police departments, paymasters, watchmen, express messengers, and it's a wonderful home protector. The U.S. Army demonstrated what American shotguns ... would do during the late war. This Ithaca Auto and Burglar Gun weighs about 1 1/4 pounds, it has 20 gauge 12 1/4" barrels, cylinder bore ... Price, including excise tax, $40.55."

The Ithaca Auto and Burglar was a veritable marvel in its time, a near-perfect blue steel and walnut "magic wand" of self-defense, against strong-arm artists and protection racketeers in the age in which it was introduced, ideal -- because of its light weight, moderate caliber, limited range, and short length -- for women, the elderly, and children who might require it, not only against house burglars, muggers, and the like, but against an abusive or incestuous parent.
If John Lennon had been carrying an Ithaca Auto and Burglar under his coat, the Fab Four would be selling live albums of their fifth reunion concert by now.
It is illegal -- or, more accurately and revealingly, placed beyond the reach of all but an economic and political elite -- and has been since 1934, because its 12 1/4" barrels are 5 3/4" shorter than federal law mandates, and its overall length -- roughly 20" -- is shy, by about the same amount, of the minimum length specified by a statute that should never have been passed or judicially upheld in a nation with something like a Second Amendment in its Constitution.
When I was a kid, my first lesson in politics arose from the fact that my home town, Fort Collins, Colorado, was "dry" -- which is to say that it was illegal to sell "adult beverages" within the city limits, and had been since Prohibition. What made it educational was that this imbecilic situation was maintained at the polls every year by a tacit coalition of self-righteously muttering church ladies like my own grandmother, and -- to begin with -- by bootleggers who plied their trade inside the town, and later on, by proprietors of bars and liquor stores that came to surround the "Choice City" in a tight ring.
If you understand that, you understand the politics of victim disarmament -- commonly and improperly known as "gun control". National politics of the 1930s were dominated by an unprecedented violence and corruption that sprang directly from trying to outlaw production, distribution, and consumption of ethanol. Every bit of the criminal activity -- gang-wars, drive-by shootings, summary search and seizure, asset forfeiture -- that we have come to associate in our times with drug prohibition arose, to begin with, in the "Roaring Twenties".
In those days, Al Capone was the most politically powerful individual in Chicago, in the Midwest, and possibly in the United States. He purchased city councilmen, state legislators, congressmen and senators the same way that I (the daddy of an electronic-age seven-year-old) purchase AA batteries. Others of his kind did as much of the same thing as they could. I leave it to you to figure out whose interests were really being represented in Congress in 1934.
The "weapon of choice" for creatures like Al Capone was hardly the Ithaca and Auto Burglar, or even the infamous Thompson Submachinegun, it was the lives of countless revolver-carrying cannon-fodder thugs, and the influence of crooked politicians.
Who was really protected by the Ithaca and Auto Burglar and the Tommy Gun? Shopkeepers, householders, and especially truck drivers whose vehicles were often stopped and stolen (just as Florida pleasure boats are today) to serve as disposable conveyances for illicit alcohol. One store proprietor with a "sawed off" scattergun could discourage three or four goons who'd come to collect. One truck driver with a "Chicago Piano" could run off a dozen highwaymen.
As surely as the Gun Control Act of 1968 was passed to disarm the militant non-nonviolent blacks who were threatening to overturn the political apple cart ...
As surely as the Brady Bill was passed because a certain variety of men -- well-represented in politics -- are mortally afraid to see women begin to arm themselves ...
As surely as Bill Bennett and Bill Clinton's rifle and magazine law was passed because -- in this dangerous age of multiple assailants, when a single individual's only chance against a gang is often firepower, and the ideal weapons of self-defense are semiautomatic rifles and pistols -- both right wing and left wing socialists couldn't bear the humiliation of Korean store owners successfully defending themselves against their clients during the LA riots ...
The Ithaca Auto and Burglar was stamped out because it threatened gangsters and hijackers who were the real constituency of the congressmen who outlawed it..."
 
All though the double action and the semi-auto had come into vogue, it would probably be a good idea to remember just how many Colt SAA were wandering about as well. Not to mention gentlemen who remembered how to use 'em...;)
 
Tell me about the Astra 400. Was it available in the 'States? What about the 9mm Largo cartridge?

And the Webley revolver. Could one be converted to .45ACP?

There are some other pistols I've heard of, like the Roth Steyr pistol (the world's first striker-fired gun) and the Steyr-Hahn, but I don't know if these would be available in the US.

Now, the Broomhandle Mauser 9mm select-fire version had 10 and 20 round detachable box magazines, right?

Could anybody give me some examples of typical loadings (bullet weights and velocities) back in these days?

Especially:

.45ACP (though I bet it was 230gr@800fps)
9mm
.38 Super
.44 Special
.38 Special
.45 Colt
 
I'd like my story year to be 1930 on the button, maybe, but I might set it a few years later. Just so certain weapons, like the version of the Broomhandle Mauser that was select-fire and had a detachable box magazine would be available. I'd also like to put a Tokarev in there...it officially entered service in 1933, right?

Hmm...looks like the only version of the Mauser to have detachable box mags was chambered for 7.63mm. The character I have in mind would prefer the 9mm version. Was there ever a 9x19 version with detachable box mags, and if not, could one conceiveably be customized to be so?

Might make some "creative alterations" to the timeline, though. Crimson Skies, anyone? :)
 
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Off the top of my head...


.45ACP (though I bet it was 230gr@800fps)

9mm Most commonly 124-gr. FMJ at about 1150 fps.

.38 Super 130-gr. at about 1,200 fps.

.44 Special 220 (?) gr. at about 800 fps.

.38 Special 158-gr. at about 850 fps.

.45 Colt 255-gr. at about 900 fps.
 
What ya want to know about Mauser' pistols? The Schnellfuer with detachable 10 and 20 mags wasnt available until 1932 in US with most (a few) brought in before NFA of 34. The standard broom or bolos were popular in 7.63 with win and rem producing soft point ammo. I dont think that many people had them though . Nothing like Colt Army and Official Police or S&W's ect. I think they were less popular than Lugers.They were a gun a "world explorer" would use.
 
As you do your story be sure to mention that the '30's were what we now call the "Great Depression" and although there were some fine firearms available not many could afford to buy one. Excellent markmanship was important then as it could mean the difference between a good dinner and going hungry.
 
Something I've wondered about, during this period in history:

Were folks still able to pick up ammo for the Spencer & Henry Rimfires in the '30's? :confused:
 
First, go re-read your Dashiel Hammet.

The guns don't matter as much as the story.

Getting a Stoeger catalog is a darn good idea, also do web searches on Dillenger and Bonnie and Clyde. There is a famous pic of weapons siezed from the Dillenger gang that includes a full auto 38 super pistol!

Remember, if your character is an American he's going to pack American heat.

Also the pulp genre should include use of brass knucks, bare knuckles, broken bottles and the occasional ice pick.

Take as much care with the cars and planes and bikes of the time. there are far more car buffs than gun buffs.

Familiarize yourself with the jargon of the time.

Write an outline first, know what's going to happen when, write the in between stuff and you are done.
 
Sorry for the necropost folks. This was from the good old days, winter 03 I had it made. Anyway, this post turned up while I was googling for an Ithaca A&B for sale, which apparently is my only shot (along with the Spanish Holland arms copy) at a baby SxS AOW in Michigan. To that end, it appears they are rare as hen's teeth and beyond my means when they do come up. Looks like it will be a Stakeout 20 or a 590 14" (12 ga. only).
Anyhow, I've spent a great deal of time researching this topic, in fact for my own writing project, as well as amusement. Here's the rundown, as if it still matters to anyone:

HANDGUNS
sidearm
1911, 1911A1 (.38 Super was the choice of the top gunfighters on both sides, in the Motor Bandit days)
Luger 9 (Wilbur Underhill and the oldest Barker (who domed himself with one to avoid another stretch) were a couple fans, not generally well regarded)
BUG
Colt 1903 .32 and safety hammerless .38 ACP
Colt 1908 .25 and .380 (.380: see .38 Super)
Savage 1907 (et al) .32 (IIRC first double stack, Bat Masterson creamed when it came out)
Ortgies .25, .32, .380
Remington 51 .380 (this was the Bentley of "pocket"(for the time) autos, but Patton is the only guy i ever heard of having one)

Revolver (less favored by those in the know)/other
Smith Triple Lock .44 Special, .38-44 HV (which became, 5 years later, the .357 Mag)
Colt SAA (southwestern lawmen), Dick Special, Banker's Special, Official Police, Police Positive Special, New Service, 1917, Fitz Special (rare gun, even at the time, but fits the era like a condom), .41 DA
Throwaway "$2 pistols" (IJ, S&W, H&R, etc.) break top DA .32s and .38's
Remington .41 derringer

Rifle-
Winchester 1907 .351 (see .38 Super. The most important weapon in history you never heard of), 1910 .401
Remington 8/81 .25, .30, .35, and 14 pump
Winchester and Marlin levers, what you'd expect
Springfield aught six
Krag .30-40
Savage 99 (Fred Burke was a proud owner, .250 Savage was the first round to break 3000 fps, and the .300 or .303 (?) was the .308 of it's time, cool gun)

Shotty
lets just start with the Barrow gang and associates, for starters-
Remington 11 riot and sawed off sporting, in 20, 16, and 12, Model 10 12 ga., Model 31 Riot 12 ga., 17 Special Police 20 ga
Winchester 97 Riot, 12 16 ga sawed off, 1887 10 gauge Riot lever gun
(I forget make/model/gauge) sawed off (front & back, what me and the boys used to call a 'crackhead cannon') single shot
There were a limited amount of others, but suffice to say any sporting gun of the period had a riot or trench version of same
Ithaca Auto & Burglar (20, and I'm told 28 and 12 ga as well)

Fullies
TSMG (duh)
BAR and Monitor
now, the oddities-
FA Artillery Lugers with stock and snail drum
Mauser Schnellfeuer .30
Select fire 1911 conversions in .45 and .38
1907 Winchester conversions
Hyde SMG
Marlin 1895 tank guns (belt fed .30-06)

Maxim silencers
Steel plate body aror by Dunrite and Elliot T. Weisbrod co.

Top outlaw armorers- Hyman Lebman of San Antonio, (can't recall the man's name at this time, but a German fellow in Chicago)
the 'Cheaper than Dirt"- Police Supply Co.
all I can think of for now
this post brought to you by large amounts of 5 O' Clock
 
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