Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Gun shop ethics. Where to draw the line?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by csbassplayer2003, Mar 13, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. csbassplayer2003

    csbassplayer2003 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Illinois
    Ok I my neck of the woods, we have all of 2 places to shop for guns. One is a mom and pop type gun stores with limited hours, but generally friendly folks and so so pricing. The other is a shop has a range attached to it. Other than those two, its an hour to the nearest Cabelas and also involves crossing state lines (so no direct handgun purchases). One of the two stores me and my friends are about fed up with (the one that has the range). Not only are the people rude, and arrogant, but downright unethical.

    Example 1.

    Whatever you have bought already isn't good enough. In this case, My Safariland holster wasn't near as good as his nylon Bianchi (which was obviously overpriced). The WWB ammo I usually shoot is crap compared to this Aguilla target ammo that is 10 buck more A BOX of 50.

    Example 2.

    Taking advantage of customers.

    Was there buying a mag holder for my P220 and one of the counters was right behind me. Guy there looking at revolvers. I overhead that his house had been broken into, and he was asking about a Ruger GP100. The said "those are very rare and hard to find" (later come to find out, ANY gun is hard to find for them, so they can use it as a means to increase the price). Pure BS, but what happened next floored me even more. The clerk reached into the case and pulled out a used SW 686, obviously costing a lot more. Rural king down the road had 2 GPs so they couldn't have been that hard to find (they just recently opened a firearms department). But guess what? They guy fell for it. I wanted so bad to tell the guy the clerk was BS, but that is a private business, and obviously I would have gotten in trouble.

    Example 3.

    Putting customers in danger.

    My buddy was there one afternoon looking at Glocks. Their prices were somewhat competitive. He overheard a younger lady asking about 9mm defense ammo. What did the clerk hand her? Remington FMJ ammo. Why? "because it has less recoil". I don't even want to speculate on the implications of this, but needless to say, this directly puts her in danger. My friend at that point walked out and vowed never to come back.

    At what point do you say "it is not worth it" due to a businesses ethic and how they treat the customers or lie to them? Again, one of 2 local shops, the other being smaller and having limited hours. What would you do?
     
  2. SharpsDressedMan

    SharpsDressedMan member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,957
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Either plan on trips to the big towns several hours away for gun purchases (I'm sure there are ones that are professional and will appreciate your business), and then limit ALL your small purchases, accessories, ammo, etc, anything that can be shipped direct, to online or mail order. etc. Half of your complaints against the little shops is crap over accessories (mine is better than yours, etc). If you don't speak of the little stuff, just keep it business, and limit your interest and POSSIBLE purchases to the big items that you MAY order from them, and only if the price is right, they will either respect you or let you know you are not welcome at all, (which doesn't seem like that much of a loss to lose THEM).
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  3. Bubba613

    Bubba613 member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,953
    You don't like it? Don't go there.
    Pretty simple.
     
  4. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,890
    What Bubba said...
     
  5. BassHunter

    BassHunter Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Southern Illinois
    What part of IL?
     
  6. B yond

    B yond Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,270
    Guns are one of those topics where a lot of people who know a little think they know it all...nobody actually does. There's also a lot of opinion and subjectivity involved in firearms topics.

    I can't stand some of the BS I hear in gun shops, and I've heard it in most of the ones around here. I hear a lot at the range too.

    I avoid the gun shops with questionable ethics and poor safety measures. You'll never get away from the know-it-alls though, that's just the nature of the beast.
     
  7. ShroomFish

    ShroomFish Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    Florida
    About every gun shop where I live has lazy employees, not to mention grouchy and sexist.. There is only one that I will deal with anymore and they treat you like family as soon as you walk though the door:)

    The one shop AKA the "Sexist Shop" in my book, I had went in there one day with my 62 year old grandmother whom wanted a reliable semi-auto hand gun that she could keep on her nightstand (I live with her but I works nights, and all my handguns suck(ed))... We asked to see a Glock in 40 S&W (recoil does not bother this woman lol) and he was very hesitant and then let her see it, with-in 30 seconds RIPPED it out of her hands and gave her a lecture on Trigger Discipline (Her finger never touched the trigger....).. Last time she ever went there.... A month later I stopped by to check a set of rims the owner of the shop had for sale, and ended up looking at 2 pistols and 3 AR's with no problem what so ever...
     
  8. 50 cal

    50 cal Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    131
    Location:
    Illinois
    I'm in south cental illinois. This sounds like the same crap I have to deal with. Usually,I just save my money for Knob Creek.
     
  9. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,414
    Location:
    South Western, OK
    Lawton, OK is the third largest city in the state. Lawton does not have one gun shop. There is a plethora of rip off pawnshops with FFLs. Duncan, OK is 35 miles away and they have one gun shop. The guys prices are sky high and i won't buy from him.

    My guns are ordered through a pawnshop in another town.
     
  10. SwampWolf

    SwampWolf Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,997
    Location:
    North Central Ohio
    Another plus for what Bubba advised. I'd add that, when it comes to transactions being conducted beween the shop and their customers, minding your own business can save you a lot of unnecessary angst.
     
  11. THE DARK KNIGHT

    THE DARK KNIGHT Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,550
    Location:
    NJ
    Normally, markets operate on supply/demand.

    It seems that gun markets typically operate on BS/demand.

    Also, to those saying "don't go there" - that advice doesn't work very well for someone like the OP with nowhere else to go.
     
  12. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,115
    Location:
    Central PA
    My personal take is the same at a gun shop as any other retail establishment. If you see something you really don't like, speak to a manager or the owner (not the counter flunky) and tell them professionally and politely what you saw and what you feel was wrong with it. Don't push a confrontation. Don't make the manager take sides in the presence of his employee. Just state your case and observe his/her reaction. If the manager is receptive and acknowledge your concern, great. If not, you can explain (again, politely and calmly) how serious you feel the problem was, and even tell them you cannot continue to patronize the business if that's really how you feel.

    Then, follow up with a letter to the owner. Don't threaten ("Im going to tell everyone I know never to go to your shop and report you to Eddie Eagle, the BBB, and Ted Nugent, and call your mother, and your minister, and ...") as that's going to antagonize him/her. Just explain the facts and what you personally will do about it.

    If you care enough to want things to change, follow through. You might be surprised at the results. Telling a shop owner that you really like his place, and are a regular customer, and that you really want to keep spending your money with him ... but there's this one pretty serious problem... -- that will strike a chord with most folks. They might not realize there was a problem. They might not realize how their help is representing them. They might have never understood the issue themselves. And they don't want to lose business.
     
  13. SharpsDressedMan

    SharpsDressedMan member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,957
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    By the way, it takes about $200-$300 for the FFL, a background check, compliance with local zonning and vending ordinances, and possibly a few other hoops and you can start your own gun store business. Not that hard. If things are that bad, you may need a new gunstore in your neighborhood, whether you or someone else works up the moxy to go for the license.
     
  14. dcdub

    dcdub Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I make it to my local range usually once a week, maybe every 2 weeks, at all different times. Sometimes on the weekend in the afternoon, sometimes midweek in the morning hours, sometimes in the evening, you get my point. That said, I have ever only seen the owner there ONCE in the past year+ that I've been going. If there was an issue there, he most likely would never notice. So do what Sam1911 said, sit down with him and let him know your concerns. If he shrugs it off don't give him your business, and let him know about it.

    Or... You could always apply for a job there and try to turn things around yourself
     
  15. csbassplayer2003

    csbassplayer2003 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Illinois
    Not all of us can plan for multi hour treks to buy guns. The other problem is while obviously ordering is a good way to save money, you dont get to pre view it at all. I support the mom and pop shop as much as I can (they had the cheapest price on a set of grips even over midway) but it does me no good when im going on a suprise range trip with friends and wally world is out of .45 ammo and this store is closed sunday/monday and closes by 4 on saturday.

    Other problem is the owner. Hes part of the problem, his attitude is attrocious. I asked out of curiosity what kind of SKS he had hanging on the back wall (being a fellow SKS owner) and got a dirty look and a "im not selling it unless you buy the other 3 guns in the collection". That wasnt my question.... I also got him on the phone one day asking how much for a sights install and what the turn around time was. Rude rude rude. Sigh. He screwed up thing is that it isnt ONE employee, so far every person Ive delt with has been this way. Its very much a "we know were the only game in town" mentality.
     
  16. Gouranga

    Gouranga Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    928
    Location:
    Gaston County, NC
    Short answer suck it up or walk away.

    Long answer: You are not going to change the owners way of doing things. We have a few nearby stores here. 1, fairly priced, mediocre staff who you should NEVER ask for advice. the second, has a range, great staff, great knowledge, great selection,horrible prices. The third 40 min drive, great staff, great prices, will have a range in march, 4th and 5th well are Bass pro and Gander. There are a couple more i have not been to yet.

    Each has strengths, each weaknesses. I still go to all because each fits a specific niche for me and I just ignore or tolerate the downsides for the purposes of being there.
     
  17. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    6,039
    yep....don't get no simpler.

    You are lucky....you at least have two options close to home. I live in a town of 10,000 that has no gun shop other than the local Wally-World. The only other option we have is a small bait shop that has no firearms, very limited hunting supplies and a limited selection of over priced ammo. The other option I have is a 45 minute ride in any of three directions to get to a legitimate shop that has a good selection of firearms, ammo, reloading components and hunting supplies. I don't buy much factory ammo any more, but I always make sure I have enough or extra reloading supplies to get me by in case of that sudden, spur of the moment range day. Especially if it's something the local Wal-mart doesn't carry. If you local shop is that high priced on their ammo and other stock, it would only make sense to me for you to buy extra cheaply when you can, other than rely on them at the last moment. Continuing to patronize them because they are the only one's in town, only perpetuates the problem.....not only for you, but other locals as well.


    Sorry, but to say the shop undeniably put her at risk for selling her FMJ ammo is grasping at straws. Unlike the hype most ammo manufacturers want you to believe, especially in 9mm, accuracy is more important than bullet type.......everytime. If the young lady is less prone to anticipate recoil and can fire follow up shots quicker and more accurately than with big bucks defense ammo, I think the clerk may have saved her life. If it's winter in Illinois and the perp is wearing a heavy wool coat, it may be the increased penetration from the FMJs that put him down. Ammo choice for SD is very subjective and everyone needs to use what they have confidence in and are most accurate with. I know you dislike this place and are frustrated, but to say their choice of ammo for another shooter directly puts her in danger is not fact, but a very biased opinion.

    There are many places that have pizzed me off enough times that I no longer go back. This seems to be the case for you and this shop. I suggest you and your friends avoid this place until either the attitude or the owner changes.
     
  18. CZguy

    CZguy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,976
    Location:
    Missouri
    This sums it up well for me.

    We all have different personalities, and as I go through life I hear all kids of advice that I don't agree with. I just don't feel obligated to set people straight. To each his own.
     
  19. SwampWolf

    SwampWolf Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,997
    Location:
    North Central Ohio

    I agree completely. Add to the equation that, not only is hardball ammunition cheaper to practice with (something the "younger lady" should be doing a lot of) and probably recoils less than some of the "premium" self-defense offerings (again, something the new shooter will benefit from, at least initially), nothing is more reliable in most semi-auto pistols than FMJ bullets. And extreme reliability is on the same level as accuracy when it comes to the prerequisites desired when using a pistol for self-defense.

    And, yes, I acknowledge the argument that any pistol being relied on for self-defense should be compatible with bullet profiles commonly employed for effective "stoppage" outcomes but hardball ammunition should work reliably in any pistol that works at all.
     
  20. Ohio Gun Guy

    Ohio Gun Guy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,469
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    my .02.....

    I've been around just long enough to hold on to some of my experience over certain advice I get from others. I have no doubt that in their experience the ammo, pistol, rifle, etc, etc. is the best choice, but there are opinions and experiences that influence those decisions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  21. Vyacheslav

    Vyacheslav member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    196
    i shop at gun stores because i enjoy looking at all the merchandise instead of just ordering it online, i draw the line when i lose the enjoyment of going to the gun store because of the behavior of employees.
     
  22. BlkHawk73

    BlkHawk73 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    2,365
    Location:
    Maine
    The shop closest to me is maybe 8 miles away. Got lied to once maybe 13 years or so ago and have gone in just once since. All over a lie that netted him $25 more than what I was advertised (transfer fee). The arrogance of this owner was the final straw. Then again, if one isn't one of the counter crowd that hangs out there and chats high-dollar O/U's they're a number. I'll go elsewhere and gladly pay more than deal with this liar again.
     
  23. hey_poolboy

    hey_poolboy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    316
    Location:
    Central Ill.
    Just drive up to Pekin gun. No range, but LOTS of guns, and generally pretty friendly. They are VERY busy, so sometimes the staff gets a little short, but I usually give them the benefit of the doubt. Dealing with the public all day is a pain.
     
  24. sturmruger

    sturmruger Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,055
    Location:
    NW, WI
    Buy Online

    It is very simple start buying online. I had a gun store like that down in Iowa and finally got sick of their BS. I buy most everyone online or wait for a good gun show to come around.

    For online sales check out CDNN or IMpact Guns.

    NW
     
  25. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    9,832
    Location:
    SW Arizona
    It must be a gun shop thing, because I regularly experience high minded arrogant help, that just seem to know a lot more than the customer's walking in the door. Don't get me wrong, a well informed clerk is a good thing in any retail setting, but the clerk who is trying to lift their own self esteem by trying make everyone else appear stupid, is just plain anoying.
    My Son has spent several years refusing to do business with a gun shop I've been with for some 30 yrs.. He finally let his grudge go about a month ago, and got a great deal on a new handgun. I've learned to just let it go in one ear, and out the other, it's the nature of the business, and hobby for that matter.
    If you go in there knowing what you are wanting, and focus 100% of your attention on that, you'll be less effected or distracted by the arrogant clerks. Just remember, you are repsonsible for your own level of happieness and satisfaction. As soon as you let some yahoo effect your mood by nothing more than words, they have won, and you've just made their day! Killing with kindness, always works for me.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page