gun shops in europe?

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Hi everybody,

I'm from Germany & visited a police station to collect information about owning a gun but the cop wasn't very helpful - he was prejudiced & not very helpful.
Wanting to protect yourself or your family is unfortunately not a good enough reason to own a handgun in Germany.
It is sad - considering the times of increasing acts of terrorism or willingness of people for violence against people with moral courage - that citizens who never committed a crime are not allowed to protect themselves.
 
I have a very good gun shop 30 mins away from my place here in Sweden . They have a vast range of guns rangeing from the cheap US weapons to quality European weapons. A very good range of scopes and no shortage of ammo and reloading gear.
Someone asked why we Europeans are not kicking down the door to get into the US. There is more to life than guns, like good free point of use health care. I would get 80% of my wages for a year if i was unemployed and good education for our kids. Plus you can walk the streets without fear.
Living in a socialist country like Sweden i can afford quality weapons and hunt as many deer as i like.
 
I'm not suggesting that there are not......

other fine places in the world to live. And obviously, in some (or perhaps most) European countries, firearms ownership is quite possible, or even easy to arrange.

I have traveled to the U.K. (my wife has family there), where I believe firearms ownership IS restricted, France, and Italy. I was delighted with the countries and the people I met. They were without exception, very friendly and welcoming.

However, I believe it's safe to say that Western European culture would not be considered a "gun" culture. Not necessarily a bad thing.

Just this last weekend, we had (in Dallas) a massive gun show in a local arena. This kind of show is certainly not confined to Dallas, or even Texas. And it occurs about four times a year. There are similar (and larger) shows all over the U.S. Can I experience the same thing in most European countries?

What I was trying to address was the belief by some people in my country that there exists somewhere else in the world a place where freedom to buy, use, and carry firearms on a daily basis, is easier than what we experience here.
 
In a BELGIAN law text, certain type of guns are officially qualified as "rambo type weapons"....
Ahem... those words were spoken by the governor of East Flanders province, and Belgium is still enough of a democracy in that the personal opinion of one politically-appointed, anti-gun civil servant does NOT yet equal law. He does not have the power to invent new arms categories, let alone forbid them, as much as he'd like to.
 
Bottom line, we have one of the better if not the best laws in the world regarding the right to bear arms. That doesn't mean we should stand on our laurels though. Much like a highway, rights need upkeep too, to prevent the cracks, wear and potholes that will make that road something intimidating or seemingly impossible to traverse.

I really do feel bad for Europeans, since they don't know what they are missing. The UK knife laws are beyond ridiculous. Many of the nations there have a very bass-ackwards stance on self-defense as well....it's this combined with disarmament that makes me feel bad.

People have a fundamental right to life....self-defense is part of the mechanism to protect that right. Police aren't protection, they're "law enforcement"....this means if they get there in time, they may protect, but if not...they'll focus on what they can. That's another thing that saddens me, to see people allow their lives to sit in the hands of others....it's my life, your lives, to throw it at another's feet isn't cherishing what you have.
 
Well, just a few thoughts. I believe that one can become so accostomed to chains that they enjoy them, and their feel. And they become warry of the others who aren't masters but don't have chains on themselves.

All I can say is unlearn your slave manual. And, America is different from Britain. A larger number of urbanites are pro-gun than the UK ever had, and most of our (considerably larger) rural and small town population is pro-gun. We don't win by saying "Oh, everyone is going to the city.... let's give in some to get some."

It's won by making sure people in the cities stay (or become) shooters themselves, in addition to rural folks. And, deciding what to do with our wave of new Americans. Those that stay here, regardless of where they came from, or what they look like, or believe, need to be brought into the fold gunwise as fast as we can.

Now, my heart goes out to all the Europeans here, not because of access to guns, but the fact that in most of your countries, the government believes it's the only sovreign with the power to defend with deadly force.

That being said, it seems like Luxembourg, and Switzerland are like relative oasis of gun ownership with the Swedes and Finns not far off.
 
European gun law

Bfore I continue I have to clarify that I love the US and the people. You just have a corrupt government that is bent on domination and control and responsible for the murder of thousands on 9/11. However that is a seperate subject.

Then again I despise the government and police in the UK. Glad I don't live there anyore.

Now you clearly have done no research before posting your message. You state that firearms are illegal in europe. Not the case in many areas.

now the UK I am very sorry to say has the worst gun law I know of. Bannning firearms has just increased the gun crime there. Over 40 percent within 2 years and that has rose.

Just the same as prohibition in the US. You ban something, you create a black market.

You also label Europeans as being very anti gun. How wrong you are. There is a small minority of EXTREMELY misinformed people like mothers against guns for example, who have no clue and like many, buy the BS that the media and goverment push out.

In response to your "I was disappointed by the amount of anti-Americanism held by most of the people I talked to, and how most of them believed their nation's were so much better and safer than ours, even though they clearly have less freedoms. Makes me glad I live in the greatest state in the greatest nation on earth." Are you yourself not being like the people you talk about?

You really are the epitome of the typical Yank arrogance. Fair enough being proud of your country, but to state it is the greatest nation on earth is just pure arogance.

You are a hypocrite squire and clearly lack the intelligence to do proper research before posting such drivel.

Apologies to other Americans on here. As I stated I love the US and yes I'd love to live there. Even though there are people like this, I don't see all of the US and it's people in this way.
 
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View from the fence

I am a Citizen of the USA and a Citizen of Britain and I was an officer of a gun club in England and I am a member of a gun club in the USA.

I got my first British Firearms Certificate in 1964 and I served as a Police Officer in the England for 6 years.

That should give me a nice view of the situation with so much overview

When I got my first rifle in England, the Police came to my house and interviewed me and my parents. They then worked their way down the road and asked the neighbours about me. Who I associated with, did I get drunk, did I fight etc. I had to do a probationary period of some months at Ilkley Rifle Club and then eventually I got my certificate and was able to buy a rifle.

Nowadays it is much harder to satisfy the requirements. You need a certified gun cabinet, hard wood interior doors in the house, a dedicated phone line to the Police Station for your house alarm, approved locks etc etc etc

They are certainly making it hard, but if you have the money, you can get a gun quite easily. A bit like a Rolling Stone with a drug conviction being able to live in the USA.


Here in the US I wander into a gun shop (5 good size ones in this little town) and sometimes approval is withheld for 2 hours. Then I leave with an AR-15, 3 magazines of 30 rounds capacity and I leave the gun in my closet with my socks and underpants. I can walk around the supermarket with a gun in my pocket. Here, I buy ammo in Walmart like ice cream - pop it in my cart - in the UK I was the appointed club officer to buy ammo for the cluib.

I would be very loath to shoot anyone for a number of reasons but number one is that I would rather die than end up in an American jail for 450 years with no phone calls, no parole and sat looking at the wall. Punishment in Europe is deprivation of liberty. Here, prisoners are meant to suffer through the conditions, and not just loss of freedom.


As far as gun crime in the UK is concerned, or any where in Europe, it is tiny compared to the US and is usually confined to a few yardy boys from Jamaica shooting at each other over drug territory in some grisly inner city setting.
In 'nice' areas it is virtually unknown.

Burglary is much more common in the UK but it is rarely a threatening situation. I was burgled 5 times and they just ran away if disturbed. Amateur night. Not the same.

The US is like 50 different countries, each one divided into discrete cultures, and it's meaningless to say the US is like this or like that or Americans are like this or like that. There are huge differences of culture and outlook.
My wife is American and hates guns. She has just gone shopping and I have to clean my gun while she is out as she never wants to see one ever !


Apart from hand guns which are banned in the UK, guns are freely available in the UK if you are not a drunken maniac criminal and you have the money to satisfy the security requirements for your gun. People do not yearn to carry a gun to protect themselves because it really isn't necessary.

I lived in the UK for many decades and served in the Police Force for 6 years, and I never met a victim of gun crime.

My mother in law was robbed in Milwaukee with a gun at her head and it wasn't an unusual incident.

I think the UK is too tight on gun control and many areas of the US are too lax - something in between would be the best way to go.

Getting in a gun fight over a wallet is not smart and there are a lot of myths about that stuff in the US and a lot of myths about citizens attacking the US military in order to change the government - it's
just something to fantasize about and is fairly harmless

Ok I will clean my Glock now before she gets back from shopping ...
 
Congrats on Citizenship!

Option A would be nice but in reality, the urbanization of the US and the change in demographics means it's a losing tactic.

Allserene, this is the logic I've heard for a long time now. It was the logic behind a whole series of compromises with the antis all the way back to the 1960's. But something really remarkable has happened in spite of this conventional wisdom. As we've become more urbanized and hunt less, we are *NOT* giving up the firearms. A quiet revolution in concealed carry rights flipped those laws on their heads, overturning 100 years of status quo in precisely the opposite direction you would have predicted. We haven't been losing ground, we've been winning it at all levels from the CCW permits to the US Supreme Court. Congress hasn't been able to pass any major gun control legislation since Clinton, and wouldn't touch the issue even with Obama in power and D's in charge of the hill.

Today, the only places in the US with serious gun control are a minority of states and cities. And a quick review of those states and cities should be enough to disabuse any notion that they herald some bold new direction in policy. They're tired old east coast mob havens and rust belt corruption pits.

In other words, keep the faith and don't assume that the antis have antis must be compromised with.

Beyond this, remember also that the sort of middle ground you're talking about with additional restrictions on ownership ends up creating havens for criminals, not lowering crime. As you note this is a nation of 50 sovereign states. Clamping down in DC means nothing to a criminal who can buy anywhere else and come back into town. Milwaukee Wisconsin, BTW, has an "in between" system of gun laws precisely as you advocate. CCW is prohibited flat-out, there's a 48 hour waiting period for handguns and while you can carry open you risk police harassment and the weapon must be unloaded. What does that get you? A criminal confident you will not be able to do squat.

Personally I think the best government involvement comes from those governments which embrace the reality and seek to assist gun owners rather than attack us. State gun ranges, state gun safety programs, and state training are all excellent ideas. Not coupled with gun control as a "compromise," but offered in the public spirit to help make us better shots and safer.

it's just something to fantasize about and is fairly harmless

While I agree that the anti-Obama table thumping is the fantasy of a deluded minority, do not underestimate what 200 million + small arms means. Obama has not been an anti-gun president, and the AWB didn't even get revived. If things had been different, the reaction would not have been limited to a few on the hard right. There is nothing "fairly harmless" or "mostly harmless" about the US. It's a dangerous country full of dangerous people. It is not the UK. I know a meek fellow here, who runs a low rent motel. He's a vegetarian 7th Day Adventist who wouldn't hurt a fly. But he put six slugs into a would-be robber a few years back. So don't assume that because people put up with the lawn height requirements of the community counsel that they would tolerate a federal mandate to "hand them in."
 
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Here is another way to look at "unruly Americans with too many guns".

The World's Largest Army: America's Hunters?
by Jeffry Watts

The state of Wisconsin has gone an entire deer hunting season without someone getting killed. That's great. There were over 600,000 hunters. Allow me to restate that number. Over the last two months, the eighth largest army in the world - more men under arms than Iran; more than France and Germany combined - deployed to the woods of a single American state to help keep the deer menace at bay.

But that pales in comparison to the 750,000 who are in the woods of Pennsylvania this week.

Michigan 's 700,000 hunters have now returned home.

Toss in a quarter million hunters in West Virginia, and it is literally the case that the hunters of those four states alone would comprise the largest army in the world. America will forever be safe from foreign invasion of troops with that kind of home-grown firepower.

Hunting - it's not just a way to fill the freezer. It's a matter of national security!
 
And yet another...

In WWII, Japan's highest ranking naval officer was Isoruku Yamamoto. Although he was Japanese, and his loyalties were unquestionably with The Empire, he studied for many years in America, graduating from Harvard University. There is an oft-repeated (and sometimes disputed) quote attributed to him regarding the possibility of any nation taking a war to American soil:

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."


How many times has Europe been destroyed and rebuilt? America?
 
Mp7 said:
Here it is way safer than in the US. I walk any street at any time, without having the need to carry a gun.

You seem to misunderstand. Our ability to carry is a right born out of governmental paranoia, not the "need" to carry because bullets are just flyin. It's also a justifiable paranoia as time and time again, the first move to eliminate resistance to a totalitarian state is to remove the tools of resitance. Your neighbors in Germany come to mind. Japan likewise removed the individual's ability to bear arms and placed them in the hands of a specific government sanctioned few... before turning completely militaristic and giving the samurai the right to slay lesser caste at will. In fact, the entire Constitution of the United States is a document of paranoia to that same end.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that an armed, free populous is the best insurance a neighboring country can have against that state's corruption. Yes, it creates other issues, but I assure you I can walk down to Sears without a gun or fear for my life if I so choose.
 
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At least the chick running the place was hot though....in a third world, malnourished, vampire kinda way.

Laughing so hard tears are coming out the corner of my eyes. Wish you had a pic to post.

Did you get a chance to talk with her about the guns they had? If so, did she know her stuff?

Tuckerdog1
 
A rifle behind every blade of grass doesn't mean much to a nuclear opponent. Israel with it's 7 million population and nuclear arsenal would quite willingly attack Iran with nuclear weapons whether every Iranian had an AR-15 or not. The rifle behind every blade of grass is valid for the 1930's against an opponent 3 times as big and where rifles were the determinant. Rifles don't do it nowadays. Helicopters and drones and satellites and IBM's are more like it.

Afghans have always been armed to the teeth - much more so than even the Americans, and yet they are invaded every few years by powers like Britain and the USSR and the USA etc etc - so having a lot of guns per head of population is no safeguard and just means your enemies will bring bigger guns.

That is the situation in the UK where the chance of being robbed at gun point is infinitesimal. If the victim is not likely to have a gun and the penalty for carrying one is big, the criminals quite rightly conclude there is no point in carrying one. The Police have always refused to be armed as they know it will cause the criminals to be armed.
 
I daresay the selection we have is even larger than in any American shop

Just taking a shot in the dark, do private citizens in Luxembourg have access to machine guns?

I was reading on another forum where an individual from Switzerland had quite an extensive collection, and I started wondering just how many countries out there allow MG's.

The four that come to mind for me are the U.S., the Phillipines, Finland, and, of course, Switzerland.
 
The Police have always refused to be armed as they know it will cause the criminals to be armed.

Wait, so if we all just disarm then the criminals will all throw their guns away? Sounds like a plan!


You're assuming that criminals are using cold, hard logic. Unfortunately, many of them are crackheads.

When's the last time a war has been ended by nuclear weapons? When's the last time it was won by ICBM's or by drones, even helicopters? Until a man holding a gun stands on the ground and holds it, it all is so much underutilized hardware.
 
America the beautiful, America the free. I agree. But this has turned into a pissing contest, imo.
 
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