Gun Shops

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My LGSs, big box, there's 2, Sport's Authority('nuff said, here) and Bass Pro Shops. Bass Pro Shops sorts their ammo by the brand, instead of the caliber.
Yes, you have to search each
brand, for whatever your favorite calibers are, and comparison pricing is a PITA. Needless to say, I take them with a grain of salt, before I even start to play their
banana-hammock take-a-number gun counter routine. Half the clowns take a number, and while everybody else waits, they "take their turn" by drooling over a bunch
of guns they aren't even qualified to buy, pissing away a half hour of the clerk's time asking stupid questions with no intention of purchasing anything at all. Like they
couldn't just say "why don't you wait on somebody else, while I mindlessly stare at these glocks?"

The pawn shop where I've gotten a few decent used guns has two regular shopkeepers, but they do a lot of internet sales, and are collector gun oriented.
So they could care less if the crowd here are shooters, as long as the laws are permissive enough to allow them to do business unrestricted. You have to know your guns, and talk turkey, but these guys aren't really making much money selling guns in the store anyway. The small LGS has some real hammers behind the counter, I've gotten some NIBs
there, which, when reasonably priced, have obviously been shot and put back in the box, uncleaned.

Overall, it's been my experience that there's such little mark-up in actual firearms that they are more trouble to the average store than they are worth. To say the least, here
nobody makes a secret of it. Sad to say, the best of the bunch, price and service-wise
is the new Rural King, but they aren't exactly going out of their way to get any new
stock any time soon.
 
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From my experience gun stores are a crap shoot. Some are warm and welcoming and some are quietly mistrust full and socially akward. I have gotten some good deals and information from the latter stores.

We had a cop shop where I used to live that had a very nice and accommodating staff. Unfortunately they knew little about guns or hand loading but gave out misinformation like the Marine Corps hands out ass chewings. I am highly sceptical of all info coming from gun store clerks, especially those just trying to make a sale. I have been "corrected" more than once by some dodo that shouldnt be working at a gas station let alone selling guns.

The best advice I've seen here is do YOUR research that allows you to make a better assessment of the establishment you are buying from.
 
Interesting reading about peoples gun shop experiences in the US. My LGS is about 15 mins drive from the place i work. Its situated in a small village and looks from the outside like a petrol station cum village store. Looks are deceiving as it holds a stock of several thousand guns and if my memory serves me correct, several hundred tons of ammo. I bet there are not many shooters in Scandinavia that have not heard of it.
The owner isn't know for his smiling face but the staff are all well informed, knowledgeable and professional. The staff do get a good wage, non of the minimum wage rubbish. Lets face it if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. I don't think you are going to get my full attention if you paid me minimum wage.
I always get a discount when i shop there and have a bit of banter with the staff. Its hard to get them to believe I'm just a poor pensioner ;). Nearer hunting season its like a shark feeding frenzy in the shop but i always know what i want so I'm in and out pretty smartish.
 
In my small (15,000) community in central South Dakota, we have one local gun shop and two or three big box stores that carry guns. The small shop is a friendly and accommodating place which will always offer a discount and will trade or exchange firearms. The farm supply store and grocery store have specials from time to time but generally aren't very helpful. Then there is Walmart, which rarely stocks guns of interest but carries ammunition at attractive prices.
The gun shop owner is a shooter and gunsmith who is a decent machinist and intent on doing a good job. I enjoy and benefit from his wisdom and experience, and spending a few dollars more to support the store seems reasonable to me. We have the usual windjammers (including me) who meet on Saturday morning, but we don't take ourselves too seriously and never disparage another's choices. We have a great public outdoor range about 5 miles down the road, and life is good.
 
For instance, some shops are pawn and gun shops; often, but not always, the prices are average or better than average (probably because the shop pays the seller well under the actual value and is, in turn, able to pass a better deal along to a customer).
The biggest gun shop in my town is theoretically a "pawn shop" although over 3/4 of the floor space is dedicated to guns and well over half of them are new, not used. They also have their own indoor range. The people working there are generally nice and helpful, although the store is often so busy it can be hard to get help sometimes. The prices are excellent, though, and close to internet selling prices so I put up with having to wait 10-15 to talk to a salesman.

Elitist gun shops: I've found that the bigger shops, often the ones with indoor ranges, big painted 5.11 windows, and fancy names with the word "Tactical" in them seem to have the best advertising, but awful prices;
I've most often found this sort of attitude in small, smoke filled, local stores who seem to cater to a small circle of clients. I'm honestly not sure how they stay in business when they seem to go out of their way to drive new customers away.

It is also amusing when I walk into certain retailers and the reps have no idea what is going on. For instance, I walked into an Academy and asked the guy about a Kimber Micro.
If I go to a big general retailer like Walmart or a generic sporting goods store like Academy, I feel lucky if the employee knows how to work the register and fill out the paperwork. I'd never expect him to know anything about what he is selling, as he's probably just a generic drone who was working in housewares last week and will probably be working in automotive next week. ;)

I am also intrigued when shops try to make a quick buck off of customers.
Most of the gun shops in town charge $15-25 to do a transfer (if you are not buying from them). One place, though, charges $75! Not sure if they just do that so that they don't get bothered with transfers, or if people are actually uninformed enough to pay that much?

I end up making most of my purchases at the big pawn shop I mentioned above. They are friendly enough, cheap enough, have a huge selection, and provide a shooting range. I will occasionally buy stuff online, but only when the pawn shop can't get a specific gun to me in a reasonable time (last one was a Ruger Mk. III slab sided completion). For some reason the shop had trouble finding one for me, so I ordered it from Davidsons (even with them, I had to put in a notification request and then jump on the purchase as the batch they got in was sold within an hour).
 
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OP, you mention "Tactical", and their being overpriced. IME, the difference between a gun and a "tactical" gun of the same type is mostly black paint and 350$.

Old joke: What's the difference between a 1911 and a Colt 1911?

About 1500$...
 
I have no use for gun shops. They don't add any value. They're just middle-men that exist only because of unnecessary regulation. When I buy any other non-food, "durable good", I just order whatever I'm interested in. It arrives at the house. I try it out. I keep what I want, and return everything else. If you take out the distributor and dealer's cut on a polymer automatic, my cost would be about the same as I spend on a pair of boots. I buy half a dozen and send most of them back.
 
I have no use for gun shops. They don't add any value.
To me, they are a readily available source of new guns. They provide me with the opportunity to brows guns I'm interested in and handle them. If they have a shooting range, they provide me with a chance to shoot a lot of guns before I buy them. That is all of value to me.

If you only buy guns second hand or at gun shows, that's cool. I prefer to use my FLGS.
 
I support small business whenever possible even though i spend more, i also don't use self checkouts, i like to employ people as much as possible, usually works out that i get better service from more knowledgeable people, not always but usually
 
Regulation of FFLicensees only serves to create a class of businesses that wouldn't otherwise exist. They're nothing more than an extension of a bureaucratic process, and plenty of them run their business accordingly.
 
Regulation of FFLicensees only serves to create a class of businesses that wouldn't otherwise exist. They're nothing more than an extension of a bureaucratic process, and plenty of them run their business accordingly.
I've read this five times and am struggling to understand what you are trying to say.o_O

Numerous businesses and industries have regulatory oversight from some government agency......so what?
 
Thanks, dogtown tom. I thought that having had only a few hours sleep last night hindered my reading comprehension, but when I got back to this post after a nap, I realized this was simply another internet post where someone attempts to sound intellectual and actually ends up ... saying nothing.
 
Good customer service is all but dead, but you have to realize that good customers are also mostly a thing of the past. It’s the McCulture: good enough, cheap enough, fast enough, but not usually friendly, polite.

That made me laugh. I worked customer service in high school and college, and I know exactly what you are talking about.
 
giggitygiggity said:
It is also amusing when I walk into certain retailers and the reps have no idea what is going on. For instance, I walked into an Academy and asked the guy about a Kimber Micro. I explained that I had read and heard from other people that the finish has issues and wears/chips easily; I asked if he had any experience with that. His reply was, "Well all guns will wear the more you use them." Thanks Einstein... I was asking whether you, as someone who works in an establishment that sells guns has experienced complaints of that pistol having finish issues. Everyone knows that the more you use something, the more, it will wear. The same rep did not know whether Academy conducted transfers nor what the price might be... seems like something that should be covered on day one for someone working behind the firearms counter.
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Seriously?o_O You expect a clerk at a big box to stay up on finish issues on a pretty obscure pistol?
I do 2000+ transfers a year, maybe one in the last year and a half was a Kimber Micro. It is not a hot seller by any stretch of the imagination. His answer wasn't far from what I would have said. I DON'T KNOW is a pretty honest answer. But you already KNEW the answer.;)

When 99.9% of your customers are buying from you as a retail store, why the heck would they really be interested in doing transfers? The answer is.....they aren't. The last time I checked was two years ago and the three Academy stores nearest me were charging $40. That should tell you how much they want to do transfers.

First, I did not say that I expected a sales clerk "to stay up o finish issues on a pretty obscure pistol"? If I ask a sales clerk and he seems like he has half a brain and tells me that he sold 100 pistols and the owners of 90 of the pistols complained that the finish chipped, that is a valuable data point. Sure, it could be a sales clerk talking out his you know what, but that is for me to gauge whether the clerk is credible.

With respect to the pistol being obscure, I would love to see concrete evidence that it is obscure. I am not debating that you do not sell many of them, but that does not automatically make it "obscure". Perhaps you sell your Micros for a ridiculous price so people rarely buy them. Perhaps people in your area do not like them. I have a hard time believing that Kimber would keep producing the Micro and national retailers would continue to stock the Micro if it sold poorly or was unpopular.

With regards to the clerk's answer, the issue I had was that he didn't simply say "I don't know." I would have been fine with that answer. The right answer is the honest answer. Instead, he gave me a useless BS answer by saying that all pistols will exhibit wear the more they are used.

With respect to the transfers, whether Academy or any other retailer is interested in conducting transfers is irrelevant. The point that I made was that at a gun counter, it is not unreasonable to expect a customer to inquire about whether transfers are conducted and the cost of the transfers. Just as I would expect a waitress to know how much the lunch special costs, I would expect an employee working behind the firearms counter to know how much a transfer costs. I agree that they probably don't like doing transfers because it takes time and they have to receive, inventory, and store firearms until the buying comes in to complete the transfer.

I interacted with a Walmart employee in sporting goods who tried to tell me that the synthetic stocked Weatherby Vanguard rifles have a much smoother action than the wood stocked Weatherby Vanguard rifles. I just let him talk... a rifle's stock does not determine its action's smoothness.
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Again, seriously?o_O
It's WalMart.
That "associate" may have been in Electronics last week, and Grocery the week before that. If you are asking gun related questions of a WalMart employee you need to rethink your gun buying practices.

Did you think that I asked the WalMart employee a question about a gun? If you reread my post, I state that I "interacted with" the employee. So that you refrain from jumping to additional conclusions, I will expound upon the interaction. I was waiting for the manager to come so that I could buy a Weatherby rifle that I purchased. An employee asked me what I bought and when I said that I bought one of the wood stocked Weatherby rifles that was on clearance, he said that the synthetic stocked Weatherby rifles were more accurate. I immediately knew that he was full of hot air. We chatted about firearms for another few seconds and he went about his business. Additionally, I would caution you about being biased towards employees of major retailers. My experience is that most of them have little to no knowledge about firearms, but that does not necessarily mean that every employee lacks firearms knowledge. What if a gunsmith with 40 years of experience lost his job and was hired to work at the firearms counter at a big box store? It all goes back to having the intuition to determine whether or not the employee knows what he is talking about.

I am also intrigued when shops try to make a quick buck off of customers. For instance, I bought a suppressor recently. One of my trustees went to a shop with one of Silencer Shop's kiosks to submit his fingerprints, etc. The shop was not the one that would be conducting the transfer so Silencer Shop allows the shop to charge up to $40 per customer for use of the kiosk. In my experience, most shops do not charge anything as use of the kiosk does not require the labor and time of their employees. In this instance, the shop wanted $40. My trustee left... $40 for the customer to push buttons and do everything himself. I could see $5 or $10 as a minor convenience charge, but $40 is ridiculous and greedy. That shop lost a potential customer by trying to make a quick $40 (and possibly more customers as I tell the story).
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1. Kiosks ain't free. Do you work for free? :scrutiny: I have yet to have a kiosk user do the fingerprint scan correctly by himself. They don't read the instructions, don't pay attention to the prompts and are confused about the process entirely. This requires me to assist, which I'm glad to do, but it is far from "...does not require the labor and time..." you stated.
2. Your experience is opposite of mine. All the other Powered By dealers with a kiosk in my area charge $40 for non customers. (I charge $20)
3. That shop didn't lose a customer....they never had him. Would Burger King give you a free refill on your McDonalds drink purchase?:D
4. Why didn't your RP go to one of the shops that doesn't charge for use of their kiosks? You seem to think they are all over.
5. Why the heck would you submit your initial Form 4 with more than one responsible person? More RP's, more time, more problems.

1. I understand that "kiosks ain't free." I do not work for free. Well my responsible persons and I must be much better at using the kiosk than every user that you encountered because none of my responsible persons nor myself had issues. That is a fair point that incompetent users may consume the time and labor of employees. However, if you read what I wrote, I was stated "In my experience, most shops do not charge anything as use of the kiosk does not require the labor and time of their employees." They key being that I qualified the statement by stating "in my experience." That said, I will cede that there are likely instances, similar to your experience, in which customers do require help with operating the kiosks.
2. Different locations and markets yield different costs for everything.
3. I did not describe my responsible person as a "customer." I described him as a "potential customer." Perhaps your mindset is different from mine, but if someone would be to walk into my shop, I would view them as a potential customer and treat him kindly with the hope that he will want to do business with me whether it be then or in the future. I do not know what to make of the Burger King and McDonald's drink purchase hypothetical question other than it seems like a poor attempt at parallel reasoning.
4. Indeed, my RP went to one of the shops that does not charge for use of their kiosk. I did not say that free kiosks are "all over." I said that "In my experience, most shops do not charge anything..." for use of their kiosks. I suggest you read more closely and refrain from misconstruing posts.
5. I have a trust with more than one responsible person. The trust was drafted by a lawyer and vice adding and deleting responsible persons (requiring me to contact the lawyer and pay fees to make the changes), I would rather go through the one-time pain of getting all the info scanned into Silencer Shop so that future purchases can be as easy as they were pre 41F. And yes, I know that there are other options for trusts (ones you can draft and/or modify yourself or use single shot trusts, etc) and perhaps those may be useful.

When I go to shops, I want to be welcome, valued, and that my patronage is important; I should not feel like the shop is doing me any favors. I want the prices to be fair. I do not want to feel like the shop is being greedy by charging a lot for simple services (transfers, Silencer Shop kiosk use, etc). The good thing is that there are so many options now... if a shop is not in line with what I am looking for, I'll gladly take advantage of capitalism and take my business elsewhere.
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Good luck.
That's why I started this business. I was unhappy with how local gun stores and my previous kitchen table dealer were handling transfers. Ten years later, I'm averaging 2,000 transfers a year and around 200 NFA transfers or sales a year. He's out of the business.
Your comment "charging a lot for simple services (transfers, Silencer Shop kiosk use, etc)…." is interesting.
How do you know they are simple?
Have you ever been a gun dealer or managed a small business?
How much time is involved in conducting a transfer?
Do you think the five minutes it takes to fill out the Form 4473 is all the time the dealer spends on your transfer?
What's the monthly rental on a Silencer Shop kiosk?
How many transfers a month does it take to cover the insurance on the customers firearms I am possessing?
How much is insurance on a $17,000 machine gun?
What is a reasonable or in your words "fair" price for a machine gun transfer? A silencer transfer? a shotgun, rifle or handgun transfer?
Are computers, a fax machine, internet service, electricity, etc free in your new location?
It's not so simple is it?;)

I know they are simple because I know what goes into the services. If you want something that is complicated, try studying thermodynamics or higher level physics. No, I have never been a gun dealer, but I have a small business. I have also lead 100+ man organizations. I am not sure if you're looking to say something to the effect of "well you've never been a gun dealer so you don't know what goes into it" or if you have genuine curiosity. However, I will say that while experience definitely aids in understanding the ins and outs of a profession or process, it is not required. The amount of time involved in conducting a transfer is dependent on a number of factors... competence of the employee, whether a customer makes a mistake on the form, whether there are NICS issues, etc. And no, filling out the 4473 is not the only thing involved with the transfer (receipt of firearm, logging of firearm, contacting customer to pick up, filling out 4473, etc). I do not know the monthly rental rate on a Silencer Shop kiosk. How is that relevant? Whether it is $1 or $1000 a month, the key factors are how much business the kiosk generates and what people are willing to pay if you charge for its use. The number of monthly transfers to cover insurance of customers' firearms in possession varies wildly depending on the value of the firearms, the insurance company, the insurance policy, etc. A $17,000 machine gun's insurance again depends largely on your insurance policy.

A fair price for an NFA transfer is $75 or less. A fair price for long guns and pistol transfer are $25 or less per item or $40 if multiple items are being transferred simultaneously. That said, those prices are my opinion and based on my experience and the gun markets near me. Economics always play a role in determining price. Some THR members may live in areas where $25 per item is expensive while others find it to be a steal. Of course computers, internet, etc are not free in my new location.

All of the questions and considerations that you mentioned are simple. How much does it cost to run my business, what do I need to charge to run a profitable business, are my customers willing to pay what I charge? These are the questions that must be answered and that I think some gun shop owners do not always answer honestly. While there are "behind the scenes" requirements that incur costs, ultimately the customer needs to feel that he received a service. One can moan about how expensive insurance is, how it takes time to receive and log guns bought by customers online, etc. However, from the customer's perspective, all he cares about is what his fee got him.
 
On another note, I found a super good gun shop. The owners are incredibly nice. They have a date night once a month in which couples can shoot for an hour, get a meal, and they offer child care... all for $30. We had a great time and the one owner even gave us an extra target and offered us some of the leftover pizza. Because of this, I decided to conduct a transfer (1 pistol, 3 AR lower receivers) through this shop. I called and asked them to send their FFL to the two places from which I ordered the items. They did so within 5 minutes. They called me the days my items came in. They were super friendly when conducting the transfer and changed me $25 total for the 4 items. I will continue to give that shop my business because they treated me well and didn't just try to make a quick buck.
 
You found a good'n there.

And for all youz guyz knocking Walmart; They have recently change their policy. Only Sporting Goods trained Associates can work with firearms and ammunition. Not someone who normally works in the bakery, I can't even work there, even though our SG manager sometimes asks me about things he doesn't know. (Doesn't happen much, but once in a blue moon.) The sucky thing is his trained people get pulled to go work in grocery for 2 hours when they get there, they don't even get to see him and have a pow-wow before he leaves.
This doesn't necessarily mean they will know which box is the Winchester .380 FMJ, yes, you might have to point it out. But it does mean it is more likely. As I stated before with what Walmart pays, it is understandable that if you do get someone who knows what they are doing, they are doing it because they love the field, not for the $$$. (And maybe they don't want to work at a small shop that pays even less. BTDT, both in the gun field and my current one, optics.)
 
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I have in the last two weeks found a great LGS here in Springfield Mo. I have bought all my guns up to now from Buds or one other LGS (which I will never go back to). I was looking for a .22 pistol to shoot with my wife at our range. So I visited Bass Pro and Academy while shopping for reloading supplies.Couldn't spend what they were asking so went to this particular small shop and have now purchased two .22's the same from this small shop but will be going back often. It was cheaper than Buds and no transfer fee on top of that, at least specifically stated judging by the final price.
 
People get all upset about lowball offers, but when they buy a gun for way below it's value they come running here to celebrate their "steal", or "score", or whatever. Just move on if you don't like the price.
 
People get all upset about lowball offers, but when they buy a gun for way below it's value they come running here to celebrate their "steal", or "score", or whatever. Just move on if you don't like the price.

The exact same people sometimes...

Or the ones who say your problem isn’t a big deal, but you’ve read their “problems” with whatever...
 
Interesting thread here, IMO.

My local gunshop is an odd mixture of the two. The two guys that run it are nice and do good basic smithing. Last time I ordered a new handgun the owner thanked me for ordering from his store and said he was tired of seeing people who came in for all kinds of advice but bought at Walmart and that he appreciated my business.

The other day I went in and the two owners were bent over an old rifle and so deep into discussing what to do to fix it that I had to wait forever to even get waited on for one darn box of ammo.

Here is what I really hate at any gun shop: The guys who can not shut up and were not asked a question in the first place but insist on going on with their crude jokes and their dumb stories about how thirty years ago they shot a fly at fifty yards with a gun that had no sights and how their one experience with a certain model tells us everything anyone would want to know about the gun. If I wanted their experience I would stop in the local bar at ten AM. Being casually friendly is one thing. Being a pain in the backside is another.
 
I was wondering what I could post after reading three pages.o_O
If I had my own gun shop, I would love to have some of y’all as customers, and some not.
If y’all had gun shops I would stop in, but would most likely not return to some.
Good customer service and good prices is what we all look for. I guess that I’m lucky that I have some good LGS’s and Pawn Shops in my area, that have good customer service and fair prices.
 
And, of course, what we have are a collision of expectations.

This is a specialty market, so, naturally, there's an expectation that both the buyers and the vendors will have specialized knowledge. With the issue of how a significant portion of that knowledge is based in experience. Which blurs the distinction between age and age of experience. And, we flawed humans oft blur the image we see of our selves when held to a mirror.

I know I've been really lucky to have had so many really good LGS to give custom to. Where the owners & employees were good people and known well enough to consider friends. It's something I've found sorely lacking in this metroperdition called DFW. The guys over at Euless Guns are a bit of an exception. But, they really don't have that much I need. It annoys me that I'm not in there buying stuff from them, helping to keep the doors open and the lights on, but, we have a distinct divergence in products.

Life is complicated.
 
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