First, I did not say that I expected a sales clerk "to stay up o finish issues on a pretty obscure pistol"? If I ask a sales clerk and he seems like he has half a brain and tells me that he sold 100 pistols and the owners of 90 of the pistols complained that the finish chipped, that is a valuable data point. Sure, it could be a sales clerk talking out his you know what, but that is for me to gauge whether the clerk is credible.
Yet that wasn't the answer the Academy clerk gave you in your first post. You complained that he didn't know. You belittled his knowledge despite him not being aware of problems with that firearm.
With respect to the pistol being obscure, I would love to see concrete evidence that it is obscure.
In my experience it is obscure because I rarely transfer one.
I am not debating that you do not sell many of them, but that does not automatically make it "obscure".
I don't sell ANY of them.....if you reread my initial post you'll see that I wrote "....I do 2000+ transfers a year, maybe one in the last year and a half was a Kimber Micro...."
That means the buyers that choose me to do their transfers DON'T BUY Kimber Micros. They do buy plenty of other pocket pistols.
Perhaps you sell your Micros for a ridiculous price so people rarely buy them. Perhaps people in your area do not like them. I have a hard time believing that Kimber would keep producing the Micro and national retailers would continue to stock the Micro if it sold poorly or was unpopular.
Glock continues to manufacture pistols in .45GAP despite laughingly horrific sales. I'm in a fairly affluent area and many of my customers can easily afford a Kimber Micro. That they choose NOT to buy one may not be because of cost, but other factors.
With regards to the clerk's answer, the issue I had was that he didn't simply say "I don't know." I would have been fine with that answer. The right answer is the honest answer. Instead, he gave me a useless BS answer by saying that all pistols will exhibit wear the more they are used.
That's not a useless BS answer, it's a factual observation. And, more importantly it shows a good salesman...….who wants to employ a salesman that says "I don't know"? I wouldn't.
With respect to the transfers, whether Academy or any other retailer is interested in conducting transfers is irrelevant. The point that I made was that at a gun counter, it is not unreasonable to expect a customer to inquire about whether transfers are conducted and the cost of the transfers. Just as I would expect a waitress to know how much the lunch special costs, I would expect an employee working behind the firearms counter to know how much a transfer costs.
If that particular store doesn't do transfers, it's unlikely that the employees would receive training in transfers......and certainly would not know the cost for a service they do not provide.
I agree that they probably don't like doing transfers because it takes time and they have to receive, inventory, and store firearms until the buying comes in to complete the transfer.
A task they are already doing every day. The recordkeeping and procedures for transfers is identical.
Did you think that I asked the WalMart employee a question about a gun?
Nope. I didn't write that. Reread my post.
If you reread my post, I state that I "interacted with" the employee. So that you refrain from jumping to additional conclusions, I will expound upon the interaction. I was waiting for the manager to come so that I could buy a Weatherby rifle that I purchased. An employee asked me what I bought and when I said that I bought one of the wood stocked Weatherby rifles that was on clearance, he said that the synthetic stocked Weatherby rifles were more accurate. I immediately knew that he was full of hot air.
Your story changes again.
In your first post you wrote: "...….I interacted with a Walmart employee in sporting
goods who tried to tell me that the synthetic stocked Weatherby Vanguard rifles have a much smoother action than the wood stocked Weatherby Vanguard rifles...". Which is it?
1. I understand that "kiosks ain't free." I do not work for free. Well my responsible persons and I must be much better at using the kiosk than every user that you encountered because none of my responsible persons nor myself had issues. That is a fair point that incompetent users may consume the time and labor of employees.
At the NRA Show in Dallas this May, Silencer Shop had a couple of employees dedicated to helping customers properly use the kiosk to scan their fingerprints. That you and yours didn't encounter any issues may not be apparent for months...…….until your prints make it to the FBI. The kiosk does offer a "grade" of fail/poor/fair/good/very good/excellent...…...but those are meaningless. I've seen fair or poor prints that were better than ones graded very good or excellent. Further, it possible to have the kiosk accept any finger for scan out of order....as in the user scanned his right hand prints first. And then there's the second set of prints that must be rolled. The kiosk instructions to a horrible job of showing how its doe properly. You might get lucky and you prints pass FBI scrutiny, then again they may not.
However, if you read what I wrote, I was stated "In my experience, most shops do not charge anything as use of the kiosk does not require the labor and time of their employees." They key being that I qualified the statement by stating "in my experience." That said, I will cede that there are likely instances, similar to your experience, in which customers do require help with operating the kiosks.
My experience includes discussion with over twenty other Powered By dealers from eight states AND conversations with Silencer Shop. Cede that.
2. Different locations and markets yield different costs for everything.
True.
3. I did not describe my responsible person as a "customer." I described him as a "potential customer."
Using your theory the entire world is a potential customer. Even if you limit the term "potential customer" to anyone who merely walks through your door its a fallacy. I've walked through hundreds of stores with absolutely no interest in buying any of their products. Your RP was there for one reason....fingerprinting and if the truth be told was never there before and likely would never have visited that store for any other reason ever...…..meaning that store never had them as a customer, potential customer, possible customer, future customer or customer in waiting.
Perhaps your mindset is different from mine, but if someone would be to walk into my shop, I would view them as a potential customer and treat him kindly with the hope that he will want to do business with me whether it be then or in the future.
Was telling your RP that they charged $40 for using their kiosk an unkind act?
In your initial post you mentioned nothing about that store treating them unkindly or rudely. Once again your story changes.
I do not know what to make of the Burger King and McDonald's drink purchase hypothetical question other than it seems like a poor attempt at parallel reasoning.
It's an analogy.
You bought your silencer at Dealer A, expecting to get free services at Dealer B.
Analogous to:
Buying your soft drink at McDonalds, expecting to get a refill at Burger King.
Buying your tires at Discount Tire, expecting to get free tire rotation and free flat fixing at Goodyear.
Buying your suit at Mens Wearhouse, expecting your local tailor to do alterations for free.
Now do you know what to make of it?
4. Indeed, my RP went to one of the shops that does not charge for use of their kiosk.
Yeah, after he went to a shop that DOES charge. "In your experience" you should have directed him to that shop first. But you didn't. That's because you actually have a very limited experience.
I did not say that free kiosks are "all over." I said that "In my experience, most shops do not charge anything..." for use of their kiosks. I suggest you read more closely and refrain from misconstruing posts.
Yeah, I KNOW you didn't write that they are all over and I didn't say you did. What I wrote was "You
seem to think they are all over"...….based on your statement that "In my experience, most shops do not charge anything....". Being that "most" means more than 50%...…..you do seem to think that more than half of Powered By Dealers allow free kiosk use to those buying elsewhere. And that as we know simply isn't true. Not even close. As you and your RP discovered.
5. I have a trust with more than one responsible person. The trust was drafted by a lawyer and vice adding and deleting responsible persons (requiring me to contact the lawyer and pay fees to make the changes), I would rather go through the one-time pain of getting all the info scanned into Silencer Shop so that future purchases can be as easy as they were pre 41F. And yes, I know that there are other options for trusts (ones you can draft and/or modify yourself or use single shot trusts, etc) and perhaps those may be useful.
The Single Shot has become an overwhelming popular choice for my SS customers.
I know they are simple because I know what goes into the services.
No, you really don't.
If you want something that is complicated, try studying thermodynamics or higher level physics.
Or women.
No, I have never been a gun dealer, but I have a small business. I have also lead 100+ man organizations. I am not sure if you're looking to say something to the effect of "well you've never been a gun dealer so you don't know what goes into it" or if you have genuine curiosity.
The only thing I'm curious about is why the need to complain about the clerk at Wal Mart, the clerk at Academy, the dealer who charges for the kiosk and on and on.
However, I will say that while experience definitely aids in understanding the ins and outs of a profession or process, it is not required. The amount of time involved in conducting a transfer is dependent on a number of factors... competence of the employee, whether a customer makes a mistake on the form, whether there are NICS issues, etc. And no, filling out the 4473 is not the only thing involved with the transfer (receipt of firearm, logging of firearm, contacting customer to pick up, filling out 4473, etc).
Yet, without really know anything about running a gun business, you think you know what is a fair price for a transfer? I think all you really know is what your local guys CHARGE. And the price dealers charge has nothing to do with being fair. I know dealers who don't charge anything, and dealers who charge $95....for non NFA firearms.
I do not know the monthly rental rate on a Silencer Shop kiosk. How is that relevant? Whether it is $1 or $1000 a month, the key factors are how much business the kiosk generates and what people are willing to pay if you charge for its use.
That you ask how that is relevant is telling. Try studying common sense instead of thermodynamics and you'll understand why a small business doesn't want to rent a kiosk at $100 month when it only brings in $50 in revenue a month. Charging people (who chose to buy from another dealer) to use your kiosk is expected and normal. Every wonder why some LGS refuse to do transfers from Bud's, Palmetto, etc or have exorbitant transfer fees? It's that the buyer chose to buy NOT FROM HIM, but from an internet retailer to save a few $$$$. That brick and mortar dealer isn't going to cover his expenses by encouraging buyers to buy from someone else.
The number of monthly transfers to cover insurance of customers' firearms in possession varies wildly depending on the value of the firearms, the insurance company, the insurance policy, etc. A $17,000 machine gun's insurance again depends largely on your insurance policy.
Well thank you Captain Obvious. Again, what is the cost of insuring a $17,000 machine gun for one year from ANY insurance company?
A fair price for an NFA transfer is $75 or less.
Really, tell us how you came to that figure. But first before you further embarrass yourself answer the question above...…..what is the cost of insuring a $17,000 machine gun for one year?
A fair price for long guns and pistol transfer are $25 or less per item or $40 if multiple items are being transferred simultaneously. That said, those prices are my opinion and based on my experience and the gun markets near me. Economics always play a role in determining price. Some THR members may live in areas where $25 per item is expensive while others find it to be a steal. Of course computers, internet, etc are not free in my new location.
So...…...in your area, you buy one hundred stripped AR lowers and you think it "fair" that your dealer charge only $40 for the transfer? That's not a hypothetical, I've done that myself. Along with transferring hundreds of Glock 17's to a single buyer.
And as far as "transferred simultaneously"...…..I discount heavily when multiple firearms arrive together, as in three AR lowers or two handguns, many dealers do. But under your pricing theory what about the customer that has a gun arrive today, his next one comes in next Friday and has three others arrive two weeks after that....yet picks them up the same day. You still think it "fair" that the dealer only charge $40 because those five guns "transferred simultaneously? I don't.
All of the questions and considerations that you mentioned are simple. How much does it cost to run my business, what do I need to charge to run a profitable business, are my customers willing to pay what I charge? These are the questions that must be answered and that I think some gun shop owners do not always answer honestly.
What's simple is your ignorance of the actual time, expense and attention needed to run a gun business. Dentists, plumbers, etc don't charge for the $1 worth of materials, but for their time, training, and expertise.
While there are "behind the scenes" requirements that incur costs, ultimately the customer needs to feel that he received a service. One can moan about how expensive insurance is, how it takes time to receive and log guns bought by customers online, etc. However, from the customer's perspective, all he cares about is what his fee got him.
A flawed "customer perspective" is flawed. And yours is flawed.
