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Gun Show Enfield Score?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Wildalaska, Jan 18, 2004.

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  1. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    So I wandered around the gun show up in Wasilla AK, -32F on the highway up there..

    Tons and tons (I mean at least 20) Savage 99s... grabbed a set of Hornady Custom 6.5x55 dies (why, I dont reload) for $10..

    Then I saw it.

    Enfield Jungle carbine?. On left receiver, sort of electropenciled No 5. Mk1.
    Only marks on breech is a BNP, crown and sort of a tiny sun. No mark on right side, left side under safety is "M/47C" below that "1945" below that "England" then below that serial number BDXXXX. Magazine marked with same serial number. Micrometer rear sight marked in more than one place with a "B". Bolt is stamped with same number as reciever, bolt head is a "O" also marked with a "M/47C" Frong band marked "M47 A" (no slash) front sight, flash hider combo marked M/47 C". Front handguard has a crack running down the inside, not all the way through (we will get some glue in there). Chamber is scalloped, stamped "M/47 C" on top. Butt is marked under wrist with a Crown an "N" and a G2...the number 772 is on butt. Rubber buttplate is soft, the screws are buggered. Bore is bright with some shadowing in the grooves but very strong. Front handguard is loose, I will tighten it up with some glass or shims...Overall wood would rate 80+%, blue 85% turing to patina. There is an area that looks like it was "welded" on charger guide. No import markings. Top of barrel marked
    "BNP 18.5 tons Per ]" and .303 and 2.222

    Question one...

    What do I have here? I cant say i have studied Enfileds alot to know all the nuances and am gonna research (and post this on GunBoards too)..

    #2...Replace buggered screws?

    #3 Use it as my car gun?

    $3..Paid $270....good deal?

    WildnewtoyAlaska
     
  2. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Forgot to add rear sight io marked to "800", and trigger pinned to trigger guard.......
     
  3. Redlg155

    Redlg155 Member

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  4. Redlg155

    Redlg155 Member

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    From what I gather..

    The rearsight on the Enfield Jungle Carbine was a modified MKI Singer sight, elevation went only to 800 yards instead of 1200 yards of the no.4 .


    ( BNP) Birmingham Nitro Proof - Required by British law, any firearm offered for commercial sale (regardless of military proofing) has to undergo a pressure test. Passed firearms were stamped, usually on the barrel and receiver. These letters will have a crown stamped directly above them

    M47 or M47C=The war time manufacturers code for Birmingham Small Arms (BSA) located in Shirley and it's other plant located in Small Heath, respectively. Mark found on the buttsocket.


    .303 2.222"
    18.5 TONS PER []"= Part of the commercial proofing, it denotes pressure tested to, caliber of barrel and length of chamber.


    I also found this information on a site..http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~stratton/en-page/fakes.htm

    No. 5 “Jungle Carbineâ€
    Overall length 39-1/2 inches; 20-1/2 inch barrel with flash hider. Rubber buttplate; short fore-end.


    An honest No. 5 rifle (or “Jungle Carbineâ€) has lightening flutes cut in the barrel knox form and extensive milling done to the receiver to lighten it. (Take the handguard off and look for the barrel flutes.) Also, an honest No. 5 will be electro-engraved “No5MKI†on the left side of the receiver and will not have “No. 4†stamped or engraved anywhere on it. In addition, an honest No. 5 will bear the proper manufacturer’s code: “(ROF)F†for Fazakerley or “M47C†for BSA-Shirley. Finally, the barrel band will be only 8 inches in front of the receiver ring--rather than 10-3/4 inches as on a No. 4 rifle.

    In the 1950s and 1960s, Golden State Arms Co. of Pasadena, California modified quite a few No. 4 rifles by shortening the barrels, adding flash hiders, and shortening the fore-ends. Some were equipped with Fajen or Bishop sporter stocks, as well. These were called various names, such as “No. 4 Jungle Carbine,†or “Santa Fe Mountain Carbine,†or “Mountain Rifle,†but all have “Golden State Arms†and “Santa Fe†roll-stamped on the barrel. Nice aftermarket conversions, but strictly that.

    Currently, Navy Arms is doing the same thing with No. 4 rifles and selling them as “No. 5 Jungle Carbines.†At arm’s length they look genuine, but they have standard No. 4 rifle markings and DO NOT have the lightening flutes on the barrel or the lightening cuts on the receiver. These are strictly fakes--or thinly disguised “replicas.â€

    Considering the prices on Jungle Carbines over at Gunsamerica.com, you did pretty good if it is an original.

    Good Shooting
    Red
     
  5. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Boy o boy its lookin real...and not one of the new imports either...

    Hmm time to accessorize...

    WildenthusiasticfortodayAlaska
     
  6. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    But interstingly enough, the stampings on the barrel and "England" are commercial. prrofs..
    WildconundrumAlaska
     
  7. Gewehr98

    Gewehr98 Member

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    M47C, eh?

    That would be a BSA-Shirley No5Mk1.

    Should have all of the hallmarks of a true Jungle Carbine:

    1. Drilled-out bolt handle
    2. Wasp-waist floorplate lightening cuts and thinned triggerguard
    3. Lightening flutes in the Knox Form (Barrel shank under handguard)
    4. Lightening cuts in receiver under rear sight (see pic below)
    5. 800 yard rear sight
    6. It may or may not have a metal nosecap on the stock forend.

    Here's one that's not too far away from yours in BSA serial number range:



    jc-3.gif
     
  8. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Yep got all of dem stuff..no nose cap though

    WildcantwaittocleanherupsomemoreAlaska
     
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