Gun shy about carrying concealed

[JohnKSa]

Hot weather carry: When an untucked shirt won't attract attention, I carry IWB under the untucked shirt. Otherwise in a belly band below the waist line so I can tuck the shirt in. Slower access, but a heckuvalot quicker than running to the car.

Just don't carry cocked and locked.

I believe the general consensus is that a 1911 is safer when cocked and locked than with a round chambered and the hammer down (even disregarding the safety issues involved in getting it to that condition.)

We take a quality 1911, put it in a cocked and locked condition unloaded, leave it in a gunsafe for 1 year.

I think most folks would agree that carrying a gun is not exactly like leaving it in a gunsafe for a year. I know I've definitely heard about safeties getting accidentally wiped off while carrying a 1911 C&L.

 

[tech]

"Eventually you'll get used to it, and it won't bother you anymore.
In fact, you'll soon start to feel awkward without it."

So True.

"For all you folks in hot weather, I have one word for you Hawian Shirts."

I took this advice this summer. My wife makes fun of my new style but I can conceal a full size 1911 if I just remember not to bend over.

Mike

 

[Standing Wolf]

Am I being silly?

Yep. I believe there's no such thing as too safe with firearms, but fear hinders rather than helps.

The model of 1911 was designed to be carried cocked and locked.

I think you need to put in a lot of range time, get your permit, and start carrying. I'm not sure practice makes perfect, but am sure it can carry you past the fear.

 

[malada]

Fistfull - I 'm from Missouri and have been carrying concealed since the law passed. I went through all the thought processes that you have mentioned. I ended up purchasing a Glock 26. I love it. My prefered method of carry is IWB. I have a sidearmor IWB holster that works great with a cover garment. I feel confident knowing as long as the trigger is inside that holster there is no way the gun is going to discharge.

I also have an alessi ankle holster that conceals quite well when IWB is not practical. Ankle carry is not my preferred method for several reasons but it is better than not having my gun.

Be safe.

 

[MrMurphy]

If Hawaiian isn't your style, Burlington Coat Factory has good patterned shirts of non-floral-camoflauge type, square bottomed and proper thickness, for about $20. So does Old Navy.

 

[Dave R]

Anybody have stats on NDs for 1911's vs. other handgun types?

I hear more stories about Glock NDs than I do about 1911 NDs. that could just be Glock-bashing, though.

OTOH, with a Glock (or a DA revolver, even.) Only one thing has to happen for the handgun to fire--the trigger has to be pulled.

For a cocked & locked 1911 to fire, 3 things have to happen. Safety has to be moved, grip safety has to be activated, and trigger has to be pulled.

That seems 3 times safer to me...

 

[Soap]

I think most folks would agree that carrying a gun is not exactly like leaving it in a gunsafe for a year. I know I've definitely heard about safeties getting accidentally wiped off while carrying a 1911 C&L.

That's fine, I'm willing to up my wager to $2K and I'll carry my 1911 for a year. When the gun "goes off", I'll pay you $2K. If it doesn't, you pay me $2K.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Those who say carrying cocked-and-locked is dangerous should explain to us how the Glock -- which is carried semi-cocked and sort-of-locked is somehow acceptable.

 

[fistful]

In which Fistful again sees that his threads usually succeed in opening controversies

Just to clarify, I'm not in doubt about the safety of the C&L 1911. I said in my original post that I feel SAFEST with the 1911. I'm not asking the same old question about action type, I'm asking about the danger of ND, and what modes of carry (type, placement of holster) can reduce it, and make me feel better.

M2 Carbine, no offense taken. The first handgun I can recall firing was the Para 13.45 I bought in 99 or 2000. This did nothing for my marksmanship, but one reason I bought the gun was that the single-action seems simpler and more intuitive to me. Obviously, I picked the wrong gun to start with, but I have learned my lesson. I have no familiarity with or interest in DA autos, and I don't see how they are any safer than the 1911. I have sold the Para, and am keeping a S&W Model 19 at home. I don't like the thought of carrying that either, safety-wise. Were money no object, I'd buy a Commander-sized 1911 and a Ruger 22/45 Mk III, and put in a lot of range time with both. And I'd take a few courses. In any case, the gun doesn't make me nervous, it's just that I'm not used to carrying a sidearm 24/7, and I don't know anyone that does. Like I said, it'll be some time before I start carrying. No money to buy a concealment gun right now.

Actually, the restraining strap makes the holster LESS safe. In many holster designs, the snap for the restraining strap is located where it may disengage the safety

Humphreys, that's just what I was talking about with my accu-mold. Just fastening the thumbreak pushed the safety off. With no strap, I'd expect the gun to fall out, but I guess I'll have to get over that, too. BTW, what type of holster were you talking about in your second post. Do you make holsters?

I'm glad I started this thread. The thought process it engendered actually helped a lot. It also brought up an interesting thought I hadn't had before. When I was a straight-leg mech. infantryman (1st Cav.) we rarely had live rounds, or even blanks, when in the field. We paid almost no attention to the four rules, until we got live ammo. Had our weapons been loaded with blanks when in the field, would our safeties have been on, and our muzzles been pointed in a safe direction?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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Humphreys, that's just what I was talking about with my accu-mold. Just fastening the thumbreak pushed the safety off. With no strap, I'd expect the gun to fall out, but I guess I'll have to get over that, too. BTW, what type of holster were you talking about in your second post. Do you make holsters?
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I make my own holsters, not commercially. Go to http://paul.desertskyone.com/gunstuff.html and scroll down about 2/3s of the page to find the link to instructions and templates for making my holster.

 

[dairycreek]

Dear fistful!

I was once leery of carrying a 1911 in Condition 1 (cocked and locked). Even though all the "experts" said it was OK, the sight of that hammer poised to fall just filled me with trepidation. But I really wanted to and so I tried an experiment which I pass on to you for your consideration.

I bought a good IWB holster and carried the 1911 in it in cocked and locked but with no round in the chamber ! So, even if things slipped up, nothing bad could happen.

I wore that combination everywhere! I walked, ran, danced, jumped, exercised, sat, stood, layed down and just waited for the safety to slip and the hammer to fall. It never did. Eventually, I got the confidence to try it with a round in the chamber. Same result! That was a lot of years ago and now I carry "cocked and locked" with confidence.

So FWIW I pass my experience on to you. Good shooting

 

[JerryM]

Get a good holster, and you should not have a problem with the safety becoming disengaged. I have carried a 1911 cocked and locked for many years, and have never had the safety to disengage.

If it makes you feel better get a holster with a "shirtguard" and when you holster it make sure that the safety is on.

Remember that the grip safety is another safety, and even if the safety slipped to off the gun would not discharge until the grip safety was pressed and the trigger pulled.

I would not carry a 1911 if I could not carry it cocked and locked.
Remember any gun will AD if you do something wrong or are careless. Always remember to keep the gun pointed in a safe direction when holstering and using it, except in true SD and then it should be unsafe for the BG.

BUT, if you are not comfortable carrying the 1911 in a condition that will permit quick action, then go to another gun in which you have confidence. I am persuaded that only cocked and locked is fast enough for emergency use.

Whatever you choose to carry, get some good safety instruction and instruction in the safe handling and use of that gun. You should not have to worry about your carry gun. Let the thug worry about it.
Also, know the laws of the state, and especially those pertaining to use of deadly force.

Best,

Jerry

 

[sendec]

You're Not Being Silly

and you should be gun-shy, carrying is an enormous responsibilty.

As for the safety of the 1911, the only safety that matters is in your mind. I carry one C&L on a regular basis without problems. There may have been occassions when the sfaety was wiped off, but I do not recall any in particular. Even if it is disengaged, the grip safety would prevent firing (assuming the pistol is within spec) within the holster, and keeping your finger off the trigger will take care of everything else.

 

[Cacique500]

I was once leery of carrying a 1911 in Condition 1 (cocked and locked). Even though all the "experts" said it was OK, the sight of that hammer poised to fall just filled me with trepidation. But I really wanted to and so I tried an experiment which I pass on to you for your consideration.

I did the same thing with my first 1911...

Now I carry a full size Kimber CDP cocked and locked every day. It has an ambi safety on it, and I've never had the safety 'snick' off on its own. I carry it in a Milt Sparks HR-LTD with a Sparks belt. Fantastic carry rig!

I check occasionally to make sure the safety is still on (just a habit I somehow formed) and it's always in the up position where I left it.

Carrying a Glock or any other DA would give me the willies...as others have stated, on a 1911 you have to overcome 3 things for the gun to fire. In my mind, it's the safest thing to carry.

Good luck with your decision and keep us posted.

 

[38SnubFan]

Been having the same concerns about 1911s as well...

Thanks to everyone for posting about the TRUE safety of carrying a 1911 in Condition One. I will admit that it LOOKS dangerous, but as the Border Patrol officer stated in the article about a C&L 1911 (it was actually in Concealed Carry Magazine), "I wouldn't carry the son of a b**** if it wasn't dangerous!"

I'm no where near ready to buy a 1911 for financial reasons (a new car and a couple personal loans need paid off first), but it will probably be my next handgun purchase (currently I only carry a snub-nose .38). I work with two guys who own 1911s and another who carries a Browning Hi-Power, which are always carried Condition One. Same deal everyone else stated: three things need to happen for the weapon to discharge - most importantly the trigger being pulled completely to the rear.

Most importantly to ANYONE looking to carry ANY gun: Common sense is the best safety, for the true safety of the gun lies within the person carrying/using it.

-38SnubFan

 

[jetman]

I've previously carried a couple of different compact 1911 styles cocked and locked without incident... but it did freak a couple of friends out seeing I carried that way. I recently converted my main carry pistol to a DAO Kahr PM9. It is much easier to hide on my slim frame. In the cooler weather I'm sure I'll be able to carry my Wilson SDS when it's easier to hide. I'm kinda spoiled recently by the SMALL size and weight of the Kahr though. Too bad they don't make a PM45!!!

 

[Diggler]

Just because you don't SEE the hammer on other guns doesn't mean they're not cocked and locked. It's like having the header extending through the hood of your car, is all.

And cocked and locked is MUCH safer than one in the pipe, hammer down. First, when you start messing with the hammer, safety off, with your thumb, your chances of an AD goes up tremendously. Also, there is a greater chance IF you drop your weapon that striking the hammer may set off the primer. Isn't going to happen if it's cocked and locked, due to the design of the hammer.

I carry C&L all the time in a Milt Sparks VMII. No retaining strap. It locks right in, and I doubt my sidearm would fall out if I was held by my ankles and shaken.

 

[Majic]

First, when you start messing with the hammer, safety off, with your thumb, your chances of an AD goes up tremendously.

Only if you have your finger depressing the trigger and the grip saftey pressed in.

Also, there is a greater chance IF you drop your weapon that striking the hammer may set off the primer.

That has never been a problem as the pistol has an inertia firing pin. It would require the pistol to fall on the muzzle not the hammer for it to fire if it doesn't have a firing pin block.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote-within-a-quote:
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quote:
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First, when you start messing with the hammer, safety off, with your thumb, your chances of an AD goes up tremendously.
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Only if you have your finger depressing the trigger and the grip saftey pressed in.
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How do you lower the hammer on a cocked M1911 WITHOUT depressing te trigger and the grip safety pressed in?

In order to carry Condition 2 (Hammer down on a live round) you HAVE to depress the trigger and press the grip safety in -- no other way.

 

[Diggler]

Yep, and I haven't found a really comfortable way to do those three things at once on a 1911 with a loaded chamber.

Since I've bought it, my 1911 has been my primary carry and home defense sidearm. It has spent at LEAST 95% of its life with me cocked and locked.

 

[Valkman]

It's pretty hot here in Vegas, and I carry cocked and locked everyday in casinos and everywhere else. I wear 5.11 shorts with a Brommeland belt, mag/flash pouch and holster, then a tank top tucked in and a light-weight unbuttoned Hawaiian-type shirt over it.

C&L is perfectly safe. If you're uncomfortable with it and want to carry a 1911, then carry one around the house unloaded for as long as it takes to see that nothing will happen. In a year of C&L carry with a gun with an ambi-safety it has never been wiped off. If it were to be wiped off it would still require the grip safety to be held down and the trigger to be pulled - pretty safe, I'd say!

What is unsafe is to carry your gun in a condition that requires two hands to get it into action (chamber empty), or where you have to manipulate the hammer to fire. You will lose motor skills in a life and death situation and you don't want to be fumbling for the hammer trying to cock it.

 

[bamawrx]

fistful,

Best thing to do is go take a class from a reputable instructor. You can make the other decisions later.

 

[Kenneth Lew]

If you are concerned about NDs with the 1911, get a Series 80 Colt or a Series 2 Kimber.

 

[saltydog452]

I am more confident with a properly assembled 1911 'cocked and locked' than with a 'cocked and un-locked' Glock.

salty.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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If you are concerned about NDs with the 1911, get a Series 80 Colt or a Series 2 Kimber.
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Both of those are firing pin-blocking systems. They work if you drop the gun from a height, and it lands on the muzzle, but how often does that happen?