Gun Violence in French Riots

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Michael Zeleny, Nov 28, 2007.

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  1. Michael Zeleny

    Michael Zeleny member

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    From an Associated Press article:
    As previously noted here, French law allows unrestricted over the counter sales of hunting rifles and shotguns. The newspaper of record contributes a typically hysterical canard in this regard:
    A rich crop of liberty trees is to be expected.

    revolution-arbre-liberte.jpg
     
  2. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Youths!:D

    Got to love the ostriches in the media.:rolleyes:
     
  3. Manan

    Manan Member

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    Is this still the Muslim youths doing this? What is their beef this time?
     
  4. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    probably the same as last time. just doing their part for the religion of peace.
     
  5. barman

    barman Member

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    This is not a muslim-related problem. In fact, they ARE youths. They are reported to be between 16 and 18 years old, the youngest being 12 or 13.

    Most rioters are blacks and not arabs. They are anti-system, anti-government, anti-police, anti everything which represents authority.
    They started rioting after two kids riding a motorbike crashed into a police car and died because they were going too fast, didn't wear any helmets and didn't respect a priority to the right (French law). What angered the rioters are rumors that the 2 police officers involved in the crash didn't stay around the wounded kids until the ambulance came. An investigation has been opened as to know precisely what really happened.

    I guess you could parallel these riots with the ones you had in the US at some point. Were they muslim-related? I think not.

    Regarding French laws, Hunting rifles are unrestricted, but to buy one you need to be a hunter or a sports shooter. In any case you need to show the clerk a paper. A hunting licence (very easy to get) or an FFL (French shooting federation) licence.
     
  6. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Manan, yes mostly. The latest trouble started after two kids on a motor scooter either 1) rammed into a police car, 2) were run over by cops who then fled the scene.
     
  7. jeepmor

    jeepmor Member

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    That'll do it.
     
  8. Michael Zeleny

    Michael Zeleny member

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    A modest extension of traditional French constabulary powers.
     
  9. Durruti

    Durruti Member

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    Back in 2003, there was a very similar incident in Benton Harbor, Michigan.

    In fact, it sounds a whole lot like a number of riots seen here in the US. An area of a city has been wracked by poverty, crime, and police mistreatment for years. One incident leads to widespread rioting as an expression of that area's frustration. Seems like that fits the Rodney King riots, Watts, Cincinnati (2001), riots after MLK's death, Hough riots, Stonewall, etc.

    As for the firearms, I understand that French law allows weapons geared toward hunting. I rather doubt that these families do much hunting. For those of you in France, is it popular for these sorts of poor suburban families to own weapons for self-defense?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2007
  10. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    Since you are French you should know that most blacks in France come from Algeria and are Muslim.

    Arabs are not the only people who are Islamic, IIRC, they are not even the majority of Muslims.
     
  11. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Just two minutes from sanity.
    Why the insistance on painting this as "the Muslims are at it again?" "The rioters are Muslims" is not the same thing as "They are rioting just because they are Muslims."

    The issues that led to these riots, and the previous ones, are more complex than "Muslims are evil." It's comfortable to think in such simplistic terms, but thinking that way leads to nothing in terms of solutions.
     
  12. barman

    barman Member

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    Wrong.
    There are very, very few blacks in Algeria. Most blacks in France come from the west-indies or sub-saharian Africa. A good number of them are of christian heritage too (80% of them when it comes to the west-indies).

    africa_islam_87.jpg

    No, it isn't. Or else they've been adquired illegaly in the intent of being used in a an offensive way (crime) instead of self-defense.
     
  13. barman

    barman Member

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    Thank for the link Durruti. That was very interesting!
     
  14. Thain

    Thain Member

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    Historically, Paris has always been prone to prolonged and massive riots.
    Student riots, labor riots, race riots, religous riots, food riots... You can find all of the above in any given decade, dating back to at least the 18th Century...

    Paris has been thought, by many historians, to actually encourage riots and the famous baricades the French are so found of. The streets are narrow and long, the poplation is dense, and the rich/poor divide is wide. But, mostly, it just seems like the French people like riots! :)

    Of the top of my head (with some quick Google-Fu to confirm the dates):

    1789: Crowds storm the Bastille, triggering the French Revolution.
    1830: The July Revolution overthrows Bourbon Charles X and leads to the adoption of a constitutional monarchy.
    1832: Unsuccessful revolt against the monarchy.
    1848: Revolution and establishment of the Second Republic.
    1871: Leftists, workers, and rebellious soldiers establish the Paris Commune.
    1934: Members of the right-wing Action Française set off anti-government riots and nearly topple the Third Republic.
    1944: Popular uprising against German occupation.
    1958: French settlers revolt in Algiers and cause the collapse of the Fourth Republic and the return of DeGaulle.
    1961: The “Generals’ Putsch”—Army units join with French settlers in Algeria in an unsuccessful revolt against DeGaulle’s policy of independence for Algeria.
    1968: Students and workers take to the streets to protest DeGaulle’s government.
    2005: Muslim youths take to the streets for... well... I'm still not sure why...
    2007: Muslim youths take to the streets again!

    Riots also figure large in French culture. For example, the revolt of 1832 provides the setting for the climax of Victor Hugo's Les Misérables. And let's not forget the chorus of the French National Anthem, "Le Marseillaise":

    To arms, citizens!
    Form your battalions!
    March, march
    Let the impure blood (of our enemies)
    Soak the furrows (of our fields)


    We've got the rockets' red glare, and twilight's last gleaming... The British have God saving their Queen... and the Canadians stand on guard for thy home and native land. The French want to water their crops with the blood of the impure. :shock:

    I have to say, personally, if I was going to take to the streets singing an anthem the French one is going to be the one that gets the job done.
     
  15. littlegator

    littlegator Member

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    "Do you hear the people sing?
    Singing the songs of angry men?
    It is the music of a people
    Who will not be slaves again..."

    A little tribute to Les Mis.

    Gotta love the media, buckshot from rifles?
     
  16. brighamr

    brighamr Member

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    in before the lock
     
  17. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    >> Gotta love the media, buckshot from rifles? <<

    Kinda like those .45 snakeshot rounds but bigger?
     
  18. AndyC

    AndyC Member

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    Race and religion aside, I'm wondering what the French police rules-of-engagement are when fired upon.
     
  19. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    For whatever reason, the origins, background and goals of the rioters seems to be a veroboten topic. I couldn't find any information about it. I really have no idea if they're Muslim, punks, anarchists, vegans, black nationalists, Hugeuenots, Jacobin militants or Basques. The whole thing stinks to high heaven. WHO ARE THEY EXACTLY!?! And why isn't anyone brave enough to tell us?

    As far as the car burning, I have no idea why the French tolerate it. I'm no fan of autos, but setting fire to other people's cars is a high level felony and can certainly constitute imminent deadly peril in the right (or wrong) circumstances. Why aren't more rioters being killed by the police and local civilians? It sounds like the justification is there. Maybe if someone killed a few we could find out if they're human, and then maybe find out why they're doing it.
     
  20. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    Cosmoline, the origins and background are not verboten. What happens is that a whole bunch of ethnocentric racists come out and start bashing an entire religion of people simply for the actions of a few. They seek any chance to attack Muslims and black people. Manan and ilbob are perfect examples of this. The came out of the wood works to mock Muslims.

    Sad isnt it? Did they forget that the guy who keeps this place up and running is a Muslim. Yet they do not insult him. Why is that?
     
  21. cambeul41

    cambeul41 Member

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    Cosmoline

    There is that -- and the question as to why some American politicians want us to follow the same example.
     
  22. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    As predicted in the end of the movie 28 Weeks Later!
    I don't understand why the French didn't do anything last time or this time. If kids get out of line you don't stand there at a safe distance and watch the fireworks. You grab em and smack their knuckles with a ruler.
    At least break out the bean bag rounds and cut loose on them.
     
  23. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    It's not a matter of bashing an entire religion. If the shootings and burning of libraries and schools is in fact the work of Islamic extremists, that's something everyone should know. If it was just some kids who wanted time off school, that's also a key element of the story. But so far nobody is saying anything. I looked further into the news reports and it actually seems as if the locals are refusing to speak to the press. So maybe nobody knows who's really behind it but the people who did it.

    In this case though they're more than just out of line. Some of them were shooting officers with rifles, and others were apparently setting fire to buildings. In my book if you're trying to set fire to an occupied building that's grounds to be shot down on the spot. It's no different than spraying bullets into the buildling. Indeed fire is a much more sure way of killing large numbers of people in a block than a firearm would be.
     
  24. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    ...when socialism fails
     
  25. QuickDraw

    QuickDraw Member

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    Cosmoline,
    Thats the funniest thing I read in a while.:D
     
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