Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Guns and lease agreements

Discussion in 'Legal' started by qwert65, Feb 15, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,575
    Location:
    California - San Francisco Bay Area
    What an ignorant and nonsensical comment. Why it's ignorant and nonsensical is fully explained in post 15, which you obviously hadn't read, or if read it, you didn't understand it.
     
  2. Sun Tzu warrior

    Sun Tzu warrior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    372
    There are ways to retain your common law rights under the uniform commercial code, when signing a contract, you may want to educate yourself. Hint; UCC1-207. This could absolve you of the moral delima cited by the moderator in post 15 which I happen to agree with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  3. ShadowsEye

    ShadowsEye Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    In Minnesota it's illegal for a landlord to forbid the legal ownership of guns on rented property.
     
  4. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,575
    Location:
    California - San Francisco Bay Area
    Okay, I knew that was the case in at least one State. If that's the case in Minnesota, that might be the State.

    It depends.

    1. The UCC was a model law. It needed to be adopted separately in each State. Not every State has adopted the UCC in exactly the same form, and some States may not have adopted portions of the model. So one would need to look at the UCC as adopted in the particular State in which the transaction takes place.

    2. How a particular State's UCC might apply in a particular case or to a particular transaction could be affected by case law.

    3. UCC Article 1, Section 1-207 reads:
      Exactly what right are being reserved? Is a lessee performing if he is violating a provision of the lease? Are there any court decision on point in the OP's or any other jurisdiction (involving partial performance and partial breach of a residential lease)?
     
  5. Bhamrichard

    Bhamrichard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    175
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL.
    Uhm, don't think so. If you skip out on paying your rent, and collection proceedings are started, that can go on your credit report. The act of being evicted for "cause" other than a monetary one, cannot be legally reported to your credit file. See "Fair Credit Reporting Act".
     
  6. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,575
    Location:
    California - San Francisco Bay Area
    There are a variety of ways a non-monetary eviction for cause can generate a discoverable negative history. Most evictions will include a money judgement, at least for costs; and that can be reported it not immediately paid.

    Also, there are number of other reporting mechanisms, e.g., see here (item 7) and here.
     
  7. CarolinaChuck

    CarolinaChuck member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Messages:
    65
    Sea lawyers... The man can not abridge your Contitutional rights, even under contract, without being held liable. It is that simple...

    Chuck
     
  8. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,575
    Location:
    California - San Francisco Bay Area
    Actually, I'm a very real lawyer. Retired now, but I practiced successfully for over thirty years before I retired.

    What kind of lawyer are you?

    Nonsense. As I point out the U. S. Supreme Court has been quite clear that the Constitution does not regulate private conduct.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  9. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,740
    Yes....darn smart phone and idiot user.:D
     
  10. thorazine

    thorazine Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    Messages:
    791
    Did you ask (verbally) or did you read it in the lease agreement?

    I'm guessing you asked.

    For I have rented condo type / townhouse type units through large management type companies and there has never been "no firearms" wordings in the lease agreement.

    If you inquire ahead of time your just asking to have the lease amended and a "no firearms" provision inserted.

    Just ask for a copy of the lease in advance so you can "review it" and don't mention anything about firearms.
     
  11. rtroha

    rtroha Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    298
    Location:
    Ohio
    Add Ohio to the list, at least for concealed handgun licensees.

     
  12. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    3,152
    Location:
    Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia
    Also add Virginia, when I rented out my TH my attorney told me that I couldn't have that in a lease (not that I wanted to anyway).
     
  13. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,575
    Location:
    California - San Francisco Bay Area
    Okay.

    So far we have some confirmation that Minnesota, Ohio (if the tenant has a concealed handgun permit) and Virginia prohibit a "no guns" clause in a residential lease. Any more?
     
  14. Sebastian the Ibis
    • Contributing Member

    Sebastian the Ibis Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,839
    Location:
    "The Gunshine State"
    qwert65-

    1. You will have more flexibility modifying your lease with an individual as opposed to a big company so look to them.

    2. Poke around on google and find the standard lease forms for your area. Real Estate Agents always have freebies. See e.g. Southern Maryland Realtors page here.

    3. Find the form lease with the language you like the best and take it with you when you see the place. Once you negotiate the details, pull out the one you like and fill it out. Your landlord may sign it right there.

    4. If your landlord is an individual with his own form lease, it is probably from Legalzoom, point out all the jurisdictional specific language in yours, that is not in his (for example in FL, Radon Gas warnings). As long as your form is from some reputable local organization he will probably go with yours.

    5. If your landlord is insistent, tell him you will have to look at his in more detail. Scan his lease into your computer, and mark it up in word. Take out all inapplicable language (i.e. references to wood floors if the apartment is carpeted, references to common hallways if you are renting a whole house), and the language that offends you, make the lease as pretty and professional as possible and send it back. The better formatted your lease looks, the more likely the landlord is to take it. You would be surprised how often this works -- even with big companies. Also, if your landlord doesn't have the authority or temperament to take inapplicable language out of a lease, you probably don't want to live there.
     
  15. Bhamrichard

    Bhamrichard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    175
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL.
    Balderdash... The Constitution applies to the Federal Government, some but not all of that document (with amendments) have been incorporated against the states. However it does absolutely zero against a private citizen.

    If you sign a contract with a person, or business entity, you just agreed to whatever is in that contract, and it is entirely enforceable as written.
     
  16. k_dawg

    k_dawg Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    816
    Think of it this way, would YOU wish to knowingly move into a place which loudly and proudly proclaimed "No Coloreds Allowed" or "Jews Unwelcome"

    ?
     
  17. slumlord44

    slumlord44 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    279
    Location:
    Southern Illinois
    Never heard of that one unless it was Federaly Subsidised Housing. Think they ban guns in the projects. Personaly have no problem with guns. Criminal activity, yes, guns as long as they are legal, no problem. Maybe they will leave some when they move out? I would try asking one of the places you are looking at and see what they say. As stated earlier, I would be hesitant to sign a lease and just ignore the no gun thing. That would piss me off. Asking would not.
     
  18. TenDriver

    TenDriver Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1,205
    Location:
    Huntsville, AL
     
  19. crazyjennyblack

    crazyjennyblack Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    391
    I don't have much tolerance for landlords with long lease agreements. The more words there are, the more they are trying to screw you. Find someone friendly who is renting a small house. In my experience, the costs of renting a small house (at least in the Midwest) are about the same as the cost of a two or three bedroom apartment, with greater freedom and flexibility. I have never lived in an apartment longer than three months, simply because I don't like the nosiness, inflexibility, and loud neighbors.

    In terms of the contract, Frank Ettin wonders why we have a society with no honesty. I wonder why we have a society in which people think they have any say over someone else's fundamental right. I'm fine in dealing fairly with people who deal fairly with me. However, these policies have little force.

    I also believe that when you are forced to deal with someone who insists on such policies and cannot find another option due to some pressing concern, you have no obligation to comply, as they have come from a position of power to deny a fundamental right.

    Rich vs. poor, landlord vs. renter, lender vs. debtor, govt. vs. citizen/subject, and attacker vs. defender are the oldest social conflicts we know. Our best fortune in this country is that life often offers us other options, and our best choice is to simply avoid those people and institutions that would put us in the position of these kinds of power struggles.
     
  20. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,761
    Location:
    south Florida
    I've read most all of the comments here and actually find both sides (Mr. Ettin on the strictly legal side and the man from Texas on the practical side...) have very valid points of view. My take is a bit sideways but comes from being the cop in between a wide variety of civil disputes before they wound up in court....

    Landlords (and their attorneys) face a variety of difficulties any time that one of their tenants uses a firearm in any situation (lawful or otherwise). If they allow their tenants to keep weapons they end up on the "deep pockets" end of civil situations. If they prohibit weapons they discourage decent folk that happen to be gun owners.... As a result many include this sort of clause in their leases - not because of any intent to scrutinize and take action against their tenants - but certainly to place themselves in a better situation if a civil action results from the use of a firearm on their premises...
    That local restaurant with the "no firearms allowed" sign is acting from a similar point of view.....

    Here's how I see it.... in real life we all face choices and as adults will have to deal with the consequences. If every party to any contract strictly lived up to the agreements... there'd never be the slightest need for attorneys. Of course, that's just not how folks behave in real life. And if you're going to keep a firearm where you're not allowed - it's probably a pretty good idea not to mention it or display it, etc. (and a quiet prayer that it's never needed might also be in order.....).

    Given those contradictions I would never have a problem with anyone making the choice to violate the part of any rental contract prohibiting the keeping of firearms in their own residence provided they realize the consequences if there were ever a problem that occurred afterward. Pretty simple to avoid eviction by moving before any civil action (if necessary). A choice to have the means to defend yourself and family and at the same time break one of the elements of a rental contract wouldn't be a difficult one for most of us... I can actually see the landlord's position as well since we live in a society where a pack of hungry lawyers is a possible outcome for any dispute.... not to mention the actual need to use a firearm to defend your life or another's.
     
  21. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,575
    Location:
    California - San Francisco Bay Area
    If you want to know why contracts, not just leases, are getting longer and more involved, you have only to look at some of your other comments in your post.

    Honesty is not elastic. And dealing fairly is making the terms of the deal clear. Dealing fairly does not mean making the deal on your terms. If you don't like the terms, look elsewhere.
     
  22. crazyjennyblack

    crazyjennyblack Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    391
    +1 to lemaymiami… I really agree with the idea of the difficulty of the contradictions in this world, and you expressed our dilemma quite well. Things are seldom as “cut and dried” as people like to make it, and in fact that is one of the points I was trying to make. Things are easy when people are on the same level in terms of social power, but when differing levels come into play, things get sticky. I can see that my view of this aspect differs from Frank Ettin’s, and that is fine. I applaud his willingness to consider honesty as a kind of perfect duty that must always be adhered to. (However, if you read my first post, I did state that your first task if you don’t like lease terms is to look elsewhere, so on that point we agree.)

    In the end, it is your decision to act according to your moral code, whatever that is. Act, and there are consequences to you and others no matter what you do.
     
  23. Torian

    Torian Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,015
    I have found this to be the case in a couple apartment complexes that I've stayed in. Any time I've brought this up, I've been able to insert language into the lease like "lawfully owned firearms are permitted". The most these guys could do is try to evict you, but since you would be an otherwise good tenant paying their bills on time, I find it unlikely. That aside, I never proceed with just a verbal contract...I will write it in myself and ask them to sign off on it.
     
  24. qwert65

    qwert65 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    897
    Some good suggestions thanks guys I'm looking at houses to rent for now hopefully I won't need to consider breaking a lease
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page