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Guns as medium of exchange

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by atlctyslkr, Jun 26, 2006.

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  1. atlctyslkr

    atlctyslkr Member

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    How valuable do you think a "common" gun would be in the event of a civil breakdown? That is what do you think someone would be willing to pay for a new or like new 4" .38 special.

    Let's look at this in terms of ounces of gold. Gold is about $585 an ounce right now.

    S&W lists on their site that the suggested retail for a new Model 10 is $572 (about an ounce of gold)

    Assuming ammo is not a concern, how much (ounces of gold) do you think you could sell one for in the event of a breakdown?

    Think about someone who lives in a upper class suburb neighborhood, doesn't own any firearms, and the city proper is full or riots and fires and this chaos may be marching out from the city into the surrounding areas. It's not going to get better. The SHTF and the party's over.

    I have thougth several times about buying up some average guns and holding on to them. I doubt I'll lose money, in the long run I may make quite a bit if the government tries to further restrict ownership.
     
  2. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    Kind of depends on how far into such a situation we are into. Ammo would probably be close to as valuable. Some of each, and the means of defending it.

    Kevin
     
  3. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    I will admit, under some duress, to buying a few extra K-frames and AKs and such on occasion. I do this not because I need this stuff but because it's cheap at the moment and I cannot help but believe that it'll come in handy at some point in my children's life. I have no way of placing a monetary value on it. I simply value it.

    But I've heard it said, as a general SHTF philosophy - don't tell folks that you've got arms to spare, and don't provide arms to anyone that you wouldn't explicitly trust with your life. Sometimes money just ain't worth the cost.
     
  4. KINGMAX

    KINGMAX Member

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    I like Milsurp type stuff for stocking up on.

    Just in case the "SHTF' thing happens I would like to have something made for personal protection, :scrutiny: (i.e. AK's SKS 7.62 x 39, Mosin's 7.62 x 54r, 870 in 12 guage, for the long stuff, .45, .44 mag, .357 mag, 38 & .22 magnum for the side arm stuff). :scrutiny: I think that should cover it. I guess I get all my family, friends, guns, ammo, food and water hand head for the fish camp ' El' Gusto for what ever may follow. :rolleyes: I will be getting at least 1600-1800 rounds for the Mosin's this weekend. I hope to get a thousand rounds of 7.62 x 39 ??? :eek: Who :fire: knows :what:

    PRAY FOR PEACE
    :)
     
  5. pdowg881

    pdowg881 Member

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    I gotta get going on this shtf stuff. I got zippo. Before this forum I used to think shtf was a messed up way of saying ****. lol. But I'm 18 so I'm pretty much positive that the s will h the f before the end of my life.
     
  6. Technosavant

    Technosavant Member

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    I was thinking about this earlier.

    Money (or gold, for that matter), as only a medium of exchange, only has the worth that people are willing to assign to it. Cash (say, a nice large stack of real federal reserve greenbacks) is only useful if the US government will still be around.

    In a Katrina type disaster, although cash might not be terribly useful in a flooded city, once you get back to proper civilization, it is one of the most useful things in existence. You can and will get back to a place where things are (more or less) normal. You can get a hotel room, clothing, food, or anything else for that money. Guns are useful in this situation, but only for self defense- there won't be much need to hunt for your own food for extended periods of time. In this situation, gold would not be terribly useful; not bad, but not going to save your bacon, either. If, say, such a situation came about, I might consider selling excess firearms for gold, since the gold would be able to be redeemed for cash, with which I can buy replacements later when things have settled down. I would, however, expect to receive a dollar value of gold far beyond the dollar value of gun (supply/demand, utility of gun vs. gold).

    In a situation which would be very bad SHTF to TEOTWAKI (think Stephen King's The Stand), cash is worthless. It has ceased to be a medium of exchange, since anything and everything is available anywhere. In that situation, guns and ammo (as well as food supplies like MREs or other nonperishable supplies) would be worth more than any gold (can't eat gold, can't use it to get food, etc.). In this situation, I would not be trading guns for gold.

    Honestly, I can't think of any situation in which cash has become worthless where gold would not have lost all of its useful value.
     
  7. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Member

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    I was told by a crusty old DI, once "Give guns only to those you are willing to turn your back on."

    When everybody was going crazy with the Y2K stuff, I would read the forums and usenet threads and wonder what was the big deal. I've always had that stuff on hand. We ran out of food ONE time in my life. A year off work will do that to a family of 6. Still had ammo, though, so the kids continued to eat. A high protien diet doesn't really hurt you that much. :neener:

    Pops
     
  8. dmckean44

    dmckean44 Member

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    If you wanted to keep guns around for trading wappum in a future US/world breakdown I would say get a bunch of quality but cheap .22LR bolt actions and a bunch of the cheaper Marlin .336s in .30-30 and a ton of ammo for each. People aren't going to want dedicated self defense guns, they're going to want guns for hunting and predator control as well as self defense. Maybe shotguns with a buch of birdshot as well.
     
  9. Stainless Chili

    Stainless Chili Member

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    Used K frames are around for a couple hundred bucks or so, each. No need to gouge your neighbors, if immediate concerns are met.

    $400 or an ounce of gold is a fair price for a functioning revolver, 50 rounds of ammo, and basic training.

    Let them know that the handgun is meant to use while one retrives a rifle.

    $800 for a decent Mini-14, 500 rounds of ammo, and training.
     
  10. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    Here's my take, after thinking about this often.

    I love the beginning of the movie "The Road Warrior." The prologue is probably the best of any movie.

    Humans built a house of straw, and touched off a blaze which engulfed them all...

    Seriously though, with only a little thought about the potential for "interuptioptions in supplies, law, and order," there are a number of local, statewide, national, and global that could wreak havoc and small, medium, and large scales for short (days), medium (weeks), or long term (months or longer).

    IF, and possibly WHEN, this all happens, here's what I think will be valued, in no particular order -- it's hard to order these without knowing exactly the cause of the breakdown; some scenarios would make water more scarce than others, for instance).

    1) Clean water,
    2) Clean nutrious food,
    3) Tools (many subparts)
    a) Tools that are human powered
    b) tools that serve many uses (an ax cuts wood and can be a weapon; a knife skins food and can be a weapon, etc.)
    c) Tools that effectively overwhelm predators -- e.g. GUNS and AMMO
    4) Shelter (would be higher on the list, but probably would be fairly common depending on the scenario, could be higher in importance.)
    5) Clean appropriate clothing for the weather.
    6) Don't laugh, booze and cigarettes -- people will need their fix and will pay ANY price.
    7) Gasoline and oil
    8) Generator

    This list could go on...

    However, depending on how BAD the situation is, here's what I think WON'T have any value in a society where there is total breakdown.

    1) Currency -- after a BIG breakdown
    2) Gold, silver, 'precious' gems, etc.
    3) All that garbage people spend their hard earned money on "nesting" their homes... e.g. useless decorations

    The interesting thing about studying the NOLAs, Tsunami victims, etc. is that the TRUE value of items becomes clear. Rationale people tend to start leaving worthless weight behind as they fight for survival.

    Sure, people steal stereos, TVs, and loot... however in a long term sitaution all of these "worthless" items would soon show their dead weight value.

    We have built society around paying too much for things that serve no or little purpose other than being "pretty" such as diamonds, gold, silver, knick knacks, etc. In any longer term survival situation, this will all change.


    Now, to the question. I think that in a TRUE and DANGEROUS breakdown situation, it would be fantastic to become a neighborhood leader and ARM trusted neighbors and friends with inexpensive surplus rifles, like the SKS or bolt action Mausers and some inexpensive mil surp ammo.
     
  11. MIL-DOT

    MIL-DOT member

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    i've thought about this a little bit,as well. one thing that occured to me as likely to have serious bartering value in the event of long-term civil breakown would be.....ALCOHOL. a couple cases of jim beam and smirnof. it won't cost too much,uncle sam doesn't know or care,and it's a billion+ dollar industry 'cause folks either really like it,or really need it !!! screw trading your guns away, how many people out there you think would trade YOU a smith and wesson for a 5th of whiskey once it ain't around ??;)
     
  12. greg700

    greg700 Member

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    Rather than a $200 extra pistol, what about $200 of non-perishable food?

    If someone doesn't have a basic firearm, then they probably don't have any food either. What do you think they are going to do if you arm them and send them away hungry?

    You can buy a lot of flour for $200.
     
  13. k_semler

    k_semler member

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    Yes, they'll make a good commodity when TEOTWAWKI happens. However, I highly suggest NOT parting with a weapon unless you have 200% confidence that they will NOT EVER use that weapon against you. If you would trust them with a knife 1" from your throat that is razor sharp, then go ahead and sell them the weapon. However, if you have any reservation whatsoever about your life in thier hands, (because it literally would be), do not sell them the weapon, nor even let them know you have it. Also, do not know you have "extra" weapons, the last thing you want is an armed stand off because they want your cache. A far more useful, valuble, and less dangerous ,(to the seller), commodity would be double-ply toilet paper.
     
  14. dmckean44

    dmckean44 Member

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    lol.

    It's funny how all these people that say they support RKBA don't actually trust anyone with them.
     
  15. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    I think it states the obvious you're not going to trade your guns and ammo away from potential vagabonds....But if those vegabonds are unarmed, you'll likely be TAKING their goods. ;)

    Guns will help you lead your community however. I have several neighbors I would trust with guns to be allies and band together, but I also suspect they don't have any. They could be taught to use simple firearms in an afternoon and would be eternally grateful for means to defend their families. And these honest folks wouldn't turn on me after I provided them with a useful tool and knowledge. You would demonstrate you value to the community with your skills and tools and they would be foolish to turn on you.

    Seriously, as I mentioned above, booze and tobacco will be good commododies and are relatively cheap now too.
     
  16. greg700

    greg700 Member

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    dmckean44:

    Most of us are pro 2A and do trust most people with firearms. Also, we aren't stopping anybody from going out and purchasing firearms now as part of their preparations.

    However, just as it would be stupid to hand a mugger your pistol, you don't want to arm someone who is desperate and has no other way to obtain food than to shoot you with the weapon you just gave him.

    It's not hypocrasy, just common sense.

    Why are you so eager to find fault with the members who are posting to this thread?
     
  17. aaronrkelly

    aaronrkelly Member

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    I believe that a person without a gun that thinks they need one would do/give almost anything to get one.

    That could be good or bad....serious double edged sword.

    I have some military surplus guns and cheap firearms that the only real reason to own its simply to "have" them. Dont get me wrong, I dont think a person needs to have a reason to own a gun.......but these specific guns I dont have a reason to own.

    I would use them as bartering to get something I need, proven the conditions were right - IE, I trust the person Im giving the gun enough that he isnt going to turn around and attack me with it. I would also freely loan them to friends or family should the certain conditions be right......

    Buy guns for bartering or just to have - damn good idea.......afterall, you can never really have to many guns can you?
     
  18. KINGMAX

    KINGMAX Member

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    To: greg700

    I am from Fayetteville NC - Graduated from Seventy-First back in 1970 - My parents live behind Cape Fear Vally Hospital on Sandra Drive how about you ??? :D
     
  19. dmckean44

    dmckean44 Member

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    greg700:

    I've just never cared much for the attitude that if you didn't think of buying a gun before the disaster that you deserve what you get. After the dust settles in a SHTF situation theres going to be a lot of people starting a new life and they'll need the tools to do it. Automatically distrusting everyone you meet isn't going to accomplish anything. Having .22s and 30-30s and other common calibers around to trade with could be very useful.

    I think I like the alcohol idea posted eariler in the thread. I could see that it being very expensive for a long while since even if distilleries pop up quickly it'd be years and maybe even decades before the hone their craft.
     
  20. DunedinDragon

    DunedinDragon Member

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    Given how long it might be until you actually have a SHTF scenario (if ever) in which you could make some significant profit selling guns you've collected, I suspect the odds would be MUCH better making a profit on the same money invested in a CD. Guns as an investment would only work under the most expansive SHTF scenario which is also the least likely scenario.

    As for me, I'll wait for a few months after the SHTF situation calms down and buy up all those guns that everyone bought in reaction to the situation and never really wanted at a good price....just for my personal use.
     
  21. dfaugh

    dfaugh Member

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    Yeah I love all the people (and I know a few) that hoard silver or gold (or in one case diamonds), "just in case". YOU CAN'T EAT THIS STUFF PEOPLE. And I'm surely not giving you one of my guns (or ammo) for it.

    While I have enough guns to part with a couple, they would only go to relatives, or very close friends. Gratis, nothing expected in return. Most of my friends have more guns than I do.

    However, all my close family and friends, know that if things really go to heck, they should come to me. I/we (my sons and I) are in a good position to "weather the storm", and they're much better off staying right here.

    When Y2K was coming (and being a computer geek, I knew the likelyhood of problems was near zero), many of my friends were buying generators, stocking up on food, etc. They asked me what I was doing, and I replied "Nothing. I have guns and ammo. I can get whatever I need!" 'Nough said?
     
  22. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    I don't see much of that in this thread. What I see here is a natural survivial instinct - in a time of trouble, my first responsibility is to me-n-mine. I wish everyone else the best, but if they failed to make hay while the sun shone then I guess they'll have to do without.

    Maybe it's a natural aversion to the welfare state mentality, that 'I don't have to plan for it because when I need it somebody else will have to give it me, just because' kind of approach to life. <shrug> I dunno. But I don't think people are being mean-spirited.

    Might keep you alive.

    If you've never been in seriously hard times - lemme tell you that people change. Folks that you thought you knew inside-n-out wind up doing things you'd never have thought them capable. Hard times make hard people, dude.

    Not suggesting that you should be rude or crappy to folk - just that you not extend a deadly weapon to 'em until such time as you feel that you KNOW how, when, where, and why they would use it.
     
  23. Roadwild17

    Roadwild17 Member

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    If the conditions were right, I could part with a few. Our local "SHTF club' I guess you could call it, we have 4 people armed to the teeth (well not compares to some of the guys on here) and the guy who owns the local grocery store. We give him a gun or two and offer protection for him, he gives us food. Seriously he is a friend who loves to shoot but his wife is a STRICT anti. She’ll get mad when we sneak him away and he comes shoot with us, but when that times come were all gona be screaming "we told you so :neener: "


    Just remember, you might trust them now, but would you trust them when they and there family are starving and you have all kind of food, and life as they know it is interrupted for a while. I asked myself that about a few people and the answer did surprise me:scrutiny: .
     
  24. Model520Fan

    Model520Fan Member

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    How many people do you know who know what a gun is for and don't already have one?

    Just wondering.

    Although I do know a few, I am, in general, a bit wary of the motives of those who don't already own guns. Of course, I keep my concerns to myself, and watch and listen in an attempt to learn more, but there it is - I am initially suspicious.

    I'm not a gun dealer now, and I don't expect to be one in the future.
     
  25. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Can't eat gold. Can't shoot gold. Can't wear gold (well, not in the sense I mean). Can't heat with it.

    If you're in a short term breakdown, sure load up on bling. If you think it's going to last, trade them out of their bleach and high octane before someone takes it from them.
     
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