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guns in church?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by chopinbloc, May 25, 2005.

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  1. chopinbloc

    chopinbloc Member

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    i know this could be ugly, but i love throwing gas on a fire. please don't make this a theological discussion, though.
    my ex thought i was out of line for bringing my pistol to church. i wonder if any of you who attend religious services carry while in the building.
     
  2. thereisnospoon

    thereisnospoon Member

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    Always

    I have been carrying for about 7 years and Church is no different than McDonalds (yes I said McDonalds) or the local 5 and dime.

    As a matter of fact, there are three or four men that I know personally that I attend church with who are shooters and at least one of them is also always armed-IN THE CHURCH BUILDING or ELSEWHERE.
     
  3. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    Well, it is illegal in Texas for CHL holders, but there are a couple representatives trying to change that.
     
  4. mete

    mete Member

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    There was a posting on this or another forum listing a good number of crimes that have been commited in church. From shooting the Pope to raping nuns to stealing the gold chalice etc criminals don't have any respect for the church.
     
  5. HankB

    HankB Member

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    They changed this a couple of years ago, it's no longer illegal unless proper notice is given. (A PC30.06 sign constitutes notice.)
     
  6. scottgun

    scottgun Member

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    God helps those who help themselves. Replace 'help' with 'protect'.

    If you carry, why should church be any different?
     
  7. pythonguy

    pythonguy Member

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    Although I thinks its a bit paranoid, at least for my neck of the woods, I don't have any problem with legal, discreet carry in a Church, or anywhere else for that matter.
     
  8. Rebar

    Rebar member

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  9. jobu07

    jobu07 Member

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    Every Sunday :) Don't leave home without it! :D
     
  10. cordex

    cordex Member

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    To me, if it is wrong to carry in church, it is wrong to carry outside of church. I don't believe either is wrong.

    Then again, my personal faith doesn't recognize "holy ground" or that a church building is anything but a building. If I were concerned with sacred space defined by walls and alters then I might think twice, but ultimately I think I'd be okay with it even then.

    I've never been able to understand arguments against carrying a gun in church. I've had people tell me that it is disrespectful, but I can't figure out why. My family has had friends who were murdered in their church, so maybe that influences my ideas on the subject a bit.
     
  11. AZ Heat

    AZ Heat Member

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    I carry here in AZ. When I'm at church, my family is sitting next to me. I got my CCW to take care and protect myself and my family, wherever I go. The times I haven't carried to church, I feel vulnerable and a little bit like I'm not fully dressed... if you know what I mean.

    I will say this however... if the leaders of my church came out and said not to, I wouldn't. But that's another subject. Thank goodness they haven't said anything, regarding AZ anyways.
     
  12. Arc-Lite

    Arc-Lite Member

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    its just another building...
     
  13. cordex

    cordex Member

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    Out of curiosity ... why not? Does your faith state that the earthly leadership of your organization is infallible on such matters? Or is it a politeness thing?
     
  14. slowworm

    slowworm Member

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    I carry in church. As others have said crimes happen in the cloisters too.

    My wife fully supports this too.
     
  15. torpid

    torpid Member

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    The Lord works in mysterious ways...


    .
     
  16. GEM

    GEM Member

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    If God told us not to carry, then one would listen. Leaders of the church are just people too and if they said this, they would be wrong.

    That's why we have a lot of different churchs and religions.
     
  17. neoncowboy

    neoncowboy Member

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    I tend to make it a practice of carrying wherever I go. The only thing that'll really deter me from that are metal detectors/LEO security (courthouse, airport, federal building, etc).

    One of my friends who is a minister at our church was a member of the Texas church that was the site of a mass public shooting several years back. I only mention it to illustrate the point that EVERYWHERE is a place prone to violent encounters.

    Remember the first rule of gunfighting: have a gun.
     
  18. Gaiudo

    Gaiudo Member

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    Three Words

    Three important words on this one: Wedgewood Baptist Church (Ft. Worth, Texas, 9/17/99)

    Ever since that happened, a couple miles from where I lived in Rockwall, I have "religiously" carried my Kimber to every church service I go to (at least while I am in the States). Its the old rule: where the BG's know there is liable to be no resistence, there will be the first strike.

    I am currently in Stuttgart, Germany, and on 4/4/2005 ago we had a guy come into a local church with a Samuri sword! "Only" one guy was killed (as compared with seven in Ft. Worth) and three injured. However, if just one responsible citizen carried enough to carry some protection (might I say, perhaps, regardless of the laws!) that could have been easily prevented. In reflection on the German perspective on personal responsibility, its insightful to notice that the man wasn't subdued until the police got there - noone made any attempt at helping (I guess they just figured that was a job for the police.) :fire:

    From a religious perspective, I can find absolutely nothing wrong with carrying in church. I have been studying the Bible and Theology for the past eight years, and from a Christian perspective I would say there is much greater wrong being done by people who refuse to act on the God-given responsibility to care for those placed under their protection (mothers, children, wives, etc). I don't care how you "feel" - the moment you marry, have children, etc., you accept the responsibility of caring for their well-being, whether its putting foot in their mouth, or protecting them against enemies foreign or domestic. This responsibility doesn't become derelict the moment you step into a building with a steeple on top. That isn't a "governmental" job - that's a divine mandate. I know you asked not to get "theological", but I confess my greatest defense for carrying in church is precisely theological.

    There are other things which may need to be considered, depending on where you live or what you believe (legality, authority of churchleaders, etc), but that is the starting point for my CC actions in church.

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  19. fjolnirsson

    fjolnirsson Member

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    Definitely will as soon as my CHL gets here. Always armed during services in some fashion already. Gatherings of my faith are sometimes targeted by neo-nazis and other groups. IMO, if I carry on the street, it would be silly not to carry during services.
     
  20. Elmer

    Elmer Member

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    Rule 1

    Carry anywhere that it's legal too.

    The McDonalds analogy is a good one. At the time it had become kind of fashionable for cops to not carry off duty, saying "I'm not going to get involved." Those of us who always carried were chided frequently about being "paranoid." My answer was always: "I used to be paranoid. Now that I have this gun on, I no longer am."

    McDonalds changed a lot of cops minds. It was pretty easy to imagine oneself, sitting there with your kids when Huberty came in, and not having the gun you were allowed to carry.......
     
  21. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    there are several dimensions to this question

    is it wrong? no

    is it warranted? yes, as has been pointed out above, criminals do bad things in churches too.

    is it somehow against your religion? not mine nor the vast majority of people I attend church with, but...

    there are some people who would be offended by it, if they found out.

    concealed means concealed, as they say, but if the gun is discovered in the grocery store, I don't care. it's a mild inconvenience. if the gun is discovered in church (which is far more likely, with all the grandmothers hugging everyone), then it's a different story.

    for many christians, not offending people and having good relationships is more important than getting robbed or shot.

    for me, it's just two risks that have to be weighed, and most of the time, i leave it in the car.
     
  22. AZ Heat

    AZ Heat Member

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    That is strictly a religious/politeness thing.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2005
  23. Relayer

    Relayer Member

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    If not for the "theological" aspect, how is carry in church any different from any carry in any other building?

    I don't believe that God has a problem with carry, in or out of church.
     
  24. TonyB

    TonyB Member

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    Always........the one issue is the "huggars"in the crowd...once you recognize them,always hug first and go low so they have to go high......
    if I went to a church that forbid ccw,I'd find another church.....
     
  25. Candiru

    Candiru Member

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    I used to have qualms about carrying in church until I did some research and thought things over. Philosophically, if one believes a gun is just a tool and no more inherently evil than a hammer, then there's nothing evil about bringing a gun into church. Historically, Jesus at least tolerated weapons, given that at least one of His disciples carried a sword (Matthew 26:51). Theologically, not carrying a gun because it would be disrespectful of God's protection could be considered tempting God, akin to standing in front of a train and trusting in God to stop it. Doctrine varies from church to church, so I can only speak for Catholicism: Evangelium Vitae, a papal encyclical by the late Pope John Paul II, examines the issue of lethal force in self-defense and finds that in situations where one has no choice between permitting violence to be visited on an innocent person and reacting violently to the attacker, it is not a sin to do the latter. When I get the chance, I'm going to get my carry guns blessed.

    Regarding the issue some have brought up about their church objecting to carried weapons on the premises, if a priest asked me not to carry on his parish's church grounds, I would comply. It's just an issue of respect.
     
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