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Guns in the home

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by Stephen Maize, Jan 28, 2020.

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  1. docbrown

    docbrown Member

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    Of course, you are welcome to your personal view, however facts are simply not on your side. For instance:

    Depending on methodology, the Kleck study indicates that anywhere between 250,000 to 2.5 million defensive uses of firearms occur each and every year. Even assuming the LOW end, that means that firearms are used about 25 times more to defend a life than to take one - at a MINIMUM. (source information below). Most of the time a shot is not fired. At the high number, that is 250 times more often.

    FBI 2018, Extended data table 8 statistics indicate 10,265 firearms murders in 2018 (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls)

    That alone indicates that firearms are indeed a valid self-defense mechanism.

    Another factual reason that shows that your argument is lacking is the percentage of firearms each year that are NOT involved in a murder. According to the 2018 Small Arms Survey, there are 393,347,000 firearms in the U.S. Assuming 10,265 firearms murders, that means that 99.997% of firearms are NOT used to commit murder each and every year.

    If firearms, as you say:

    "Guns in the home for self defence makes the gun owner a dangerous person."

    "A gun in the home makes home owners and criminals more prone to violence."

    How is it that such a tiny (statistically insignificant) number of firearms are used to commit murder? Similar numbers apply to violent crime committed with firearms, not just murders.

    Finally, in my experience, a gun in the home does not make anyone dangerous. I would like you to elaborate on this and provide scientific references supporting your point. In the end, there are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous people - and those people are dangerous with or without a firearm.

    A gun in the home does not make home owners more prone to violence any more than a match in the home makes homeowners more prone to be arsonists. Again, where is the data to back up your assertion? The only way I can possibly your statement having even a passing application is if there is a home invasion, and a home owner defends themselves with a firearm, then, yes, there would be more violence (in the strictest definition of the word) with the homeowner as the cause. However, given a home invasion, it seems more advantageous for the homeowner to be working violence on the criminal rather than the other way around. (Of course, it would be best for the criminals never to have initiated the home invasion in the first place)

    In the end, it is your home and your choice what you do as regards firearms. No one here will try to enforce their views on you - we simply request the same courtesy from you and lawmakers who hold you opinion. If your choices are based on emotion, then there is no point in continuing the conversation as in my experience, no one ever "wins" an emotional argument.

    Respectfully,
    Doc
     
  2. Robert

    Robert Administrator Staff Member

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    No, that is not good enough. If you are not willing to explain your point of view then we are done here.
     
  3. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Since guns are protected by the Second Amendment, how about free speech protected by the First Amendment?
     
  4. Steve51

    Steve51 Member

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    I respectfully disagree with you and am very thankful that our founding fathers thought otherwise.
     
  5. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    We Americans are a different lot.
    Free men are not bound by what we "need".
     
  6. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I just came to the realization:

    CDC during Obama stated clearly that would-be victims defending themselves with firearms had clearly better outcomes than those without.
    SM has pointed out that victimization and burglary rates for the first world European derived countries are higher than in the US.
    These could dovetail together by pointing out the lower rates of assault and burglary in the US for most of those years are due to the CDC's point about would-be victims and firearms defense improved outcomes. We may be lower in the crimes he's cited because we are armed more than those other countries. At least there's a correlation if not a causal relationship.

    THAT counters the opinion that firearms in the home shouldn't be permitted i.e. use of firearms in defense produce better victim outcomes and that is while those countries that don't permit them have higher victimization for assault and burglary. Better outcomes for armed victims produces better rates of victimization and burglary for the nation. Therefore, it is more beneficial to have firearms for personal defense in the home than not is they're used by the would-be victim to stop the crime.
     
  7. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    There is simply no reason for politicians and other public officials to have body guards with guns. Simply no reason.
     
    tommy.duncan, LiveLife and LaneP like this.
  8. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Stephen Maize,

    We can't be expected to keep this thread open that long.

    Closed.
     
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