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Guns sold on the internet

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by John Fugate, Aug 12, 2008.

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  1. John Fugate

    John Fugate member

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    What happend to the industry standard 3 day inspection ? I see AS IS everywhere I look. I understand anyone can sell whatever they want under their own conditions. I have no problem with that,, its America and you can make your own choices. If I enter into a AS IS deal , I go in expecting the worst and I am willing to settle for the worst. I am the one who agreed to the terms. I am just curious to why AS IS seems to be the new trend. It only take one AS IS deal to make a future interneter never return after his first bad deal as is deal goes bad. I understand its their choice to engage in a AS IS deal but what does these AS IS sour deals do for the used firearm business in general. How can this be good for the industy ? I say and do give a man 3 days and if he doesnt like the gun for ANY reason give him the right to return it for full refund provided its returned in the same condition as it left. Buyers pay their money and they deserves to get exactly what they pay for. Read the fine print before you buy, when the terms are AS IS think about the choice you are about to make and be ready to live with it because you will have no other choice but to. I feel comfortable when I buy a gun with a 3day inspection and I want my customers to feel the same.


    John Fugate
     
  2. LJ-MosinFreak-Buck

    LJ-MosinFreak-Buck Member

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    My take is because they want to have their money guaranteed, and these crummy gas prices aren't helping any.
     
  3. VegasOPM

    VegasOPM Member

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    That is why I don't buy guns or vehicles without a test drive.
     
  4. John Fugate

    John Fugate member

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    Quote
    "My take is because they want to have their money guaranteed, and these crummy gas prices aren't helping any".

    They may want their money garanteed but the guy on the other end may want exactly what he paid for also . The guy on the other end on the deal is having to buy that 4 dollar gas just like the seller. Whats fair is fair. AS IS IS BS
     
  5. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    In UCC terms "as is" indicates the offer is made with a waiver of implied warranties. It should only be used when selling a DEFUNCT firearm. For example I bought an "as is" bargain barrel 1891 Argie for parts that had a badly rusted receiver and certified in writing that I would not be trying to fire it. That was an "as is" firearm and there was no implied warranty of fitness for shooting.

    However, in the vast majority of gun sales there *IS* an implied warranty that the firearm will in fact function as a firearm. If that's not clear from the internet offer, make a point of clarifying it BEFORE you buy the firearm. Ask the seller to confirm that it is functional and won't blow up. You can also bargain for a set period to inspect the firearm upon receipt. Ask questions, negotiate, and clarify.

    Personally, there are some types of firearms I simply don't buy without getting a close hands-on look first. Colt revolvers, for example.
     
  6. Drgong

    Drgong Member

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    I know in other types of auctions people will use it, then ship it back and then demand a full refund.

    As is is no complants, the seller gets less money, but 10x less headaces, and for many sellers, that is worth it. Generally I willing to pay a premimum to handle the actual gun I am buying. I rather pay $400 in the store for a gun then buy online for $350, as after FFL and shipping it not much of a change in price.
     
  7. MinnMooney

    MinnMooney Member

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    "As is is NOT B.S."

    Not so fast. The seller wants to sell the gun and not have to go thru the time and expense of selling it a second time. If the potential buyer doesn't trust the seller than don't buy what he has for sale. The cost of postage both ways makes for a huge loss for the buyer and/or seller if it has to be returned. And think of the FFL holder to whom the gun is being shipped. Who is going to pay him for receiving the gun, calling the buyer, letting the buyer inspect the gun at the shop (or worse, going thru all of the paperwork and phone call to let the buyer take it out of the shop for a test firing)?

    At the least, there is $50-$75 gone by the time the seller gets the gun back. Most of the time, the buyer will be responsible for all of those costs. If you're not willing to go to that expense and have nothing when it's gone then buy from someone that is within driving distance so you can inspect the gun.


    to cosmoline : "as is" in almost every state means just that - AS IS! There is no implied warranty or expectation of condition. The ONLY condition of the item is that which is expressly said in the text and/or picture of the item. If the seller says, "I have a very nice, useable gun for sale." then he has stated that it's in "very nice" shape (left to some, but not much, interpratation) and "useable", which any court would interpret to mean "can be used for the purpose that any normal purchaser would want to use this gun for". "As is" with no qualifiers is 100% AS IS .
     
  8. Sam

    Sam Member

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    Hey guys you can establish any kind of deal you want. If he won't allow the inspection period, buy from someone else.
    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....M.P.H.
     
  9. Majic

    Majic Member

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    That doesn't happen when you are shopping for used out of production models. Some may had limited numbers made and you don't run across one everyday. All of us don't buy brand new guns.
     
  10. bearmgc

    bearmgc Member

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    I've had exactly 1 crummy internet deal in almost 14 years of buying/selling online. I think thats pretty good. If you have any qualms about the seller or deal, then don't buy. Even FTF and store buying has its hazzards, ie. stolen guns. I bought a rifle from a gun store, and then traded it to another store about 9mo later. A person came to that store and recognised the rifle as one stolen from him a year ago. Sure enough, its serial number was listed in record, but neither one of the stores bothered to check its serial number against the list of stolen firearms. Oboy.
     
  11. MinnMooney

    MinnMooney Member

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    We don't? hmmmmmmmmmm...

    Only kidding. I will only purchase NIB guns on-line. If it's used there are just way too many variables and subjectiveness to "condition". One owner's "90% condition" is another buyer's "75% condition".

    Another thing.... I'm way too suspicious about a target-grade rifle that someone is selling that "only has a 100 rounds thru it". Does it really have 100 or does it have 500-1000 hot rounds thru it or did he shoot it and find that it only groups at 1.5 MOA? Kinda scares me off.
     
  12. pistolero6869

    pistolero6869 Member

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    I would never buy a complete firearm over the internet. Unless it was new or dealing with a brick and morter store thats selling. like cdnn, davisons, etc
     
  13. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    I don't see anything wrong with an "as is" sale. I would want to know why the seller is listing on that basis. If a seller accurately describes a good gun in detail but just wants to eliminate the posibility of having to take it back from a finicky buyer, I would still be interested in the gun.

    Buying an "as is" gun under this scenario should result in a slightly lower selling price. If I trust the seller, and the gun meets my needs, I just might buy it.

    If the seller is selling a gun "as is" because it is damaged, messed up, or falling apart, then I'm not interested in that anyway.

    If a gun in the first category is being sold "as is" and you're wanting to make a purchase on the basis of a 3 day inspection, then negotiate that with the seller. You can either convince the seller that you're a serious buyer or maybe offer the guy an extra $25-50.

    Work it out with the seller. In fact, a really important factor in Internet sales is communicating with the seller. About anything. Before the bid/sale. If you have trouble communicating with the seller before the bid/sale, it is a bad sign.
     
  14. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I think that "as is" is largely limited to auctions selling items on consignment. This being the case the sale is considered final, and the stipulation is not limited to gun auctions, but others as well.

    Sales between individuals, or between individuals and dealers in both new and used equipment often include an inspection period.

    In any case it is up to the buyer to decide if they want to bid or buy, depending on the conditions that govern the sale.

    I have bought a number of flaming deals off of “as is” auctions, and have yet to be disappointed. Maybe it’s a matter of luck, but I doubt it. I am careful who I deal with, and examine the provided pictures carefully. I also don’t expect used merchandise to be absolutely unused and perfect in every respect, although that has happened. One that comes to mind was a Colt Police Positive .38 that was made in early 1942. It was one of the very last ones that were produced, and was to my eye, unfired. It cost under $300.00, and no one else even bothered to bid on it.

    Buying at auctions entails some risk. If you don’t want to take a chance buy elsewhere, and leave the bargains to me. :evil:
     
  15. bogie

    bogie Member

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    What's it cost to send a piece "for inspection" to someone? I suspect that a few dealers met up with the folks who like to walk in a gun store, and fondle everything in the cabinet... who have now discovered that they can do it by mail too...
     
  16. damien

    damien Member

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    I wouldn't buy guns off the Internet, period. Maybe it is because of the selection up here in Northern Illinois. With the Cabela's, two Bass Pro, three Gander Mountains, and some very nice independents (GAT, Megasports), pretty much anything you want is in stock somewhere. Internet dealers do not offer any price advantage. It is infuriating that Internet gun dealers are the execption to the rule. Almost all other Internet merchants beat local prices every time, even Wal*Mart prices. Plus with the lack of inspection and the shipping prices these days, it just doesn't seem like a good deal at all.
     
  17. Monkeybear

    Monkeybear Member

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    I have sold guns online and my biggest fear with offering a 3 day inspection period is buyers remorse.

    AS IS simply means "no returns for any reason". It means that you had better inspect the gun and make sure it is to your liking before you hand over the money because I am not likely to give it back should you change your mind. I don't put "AS IS" in my for sale ads because unless an inspection period is expressly mentioned there is no reason to expect one. I had always thought the de facto return policy for firearms and ammo was that there was none. Also: all the people I have had the chance to do business with were fine honest people and the deals went smoothly.

    I have only offered an inspection period once, and that was with an AR15 I had built. I knew it was built right but I wanted the buyer to have plenty of opportunity to inspect and fire it so I gave him a week to shoot the heck out of it.
     
  18. John Fugate

    John Fugate member

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    I understand buyers remorse, its just going to happen. People spend more than they should thats why the country is in the shape its in. I know there are two sides to everything, I am talking about the guy who sells you a Smith and Wesson Model 29 that he rates in great shape just a turnline and shows you a picture of the side without the pavement rash and sells it as is. You recieve the gun and you get taken and he says sorry my add reads as is sorry pal. That is the downside to that. I have this happen I would say one in every 10 as is deals,, but when its advertised as is I dont complain. I just go on up the road. I do complain when seller does not advertise as is but if you call its always as is. I have had people renig on thier advertised three day inspections, but thats just going to happen too. I am just fortune to get the 9good deals to the one bad one. I think a 3 day inspection shows the buyer the seller has nothing to hide. As is reminds me of to bad. We are just lucky the majority of sellers are good people. God Bless the good people.
    John
     
  19. Hawk

    Hawk Member

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    Gad. That would blow chunks.

    I'm too nervous to buy from anyone over the 'net that hasn't been thourougly vetted. That generally means a bazillion positive feedbacks and some THR elder statesman vouching for the guy besides. As a consequence, I buy very few guns online.

    My concern has been buying from someone dealing in collectibles and discovering the product was exactly as described cosmetically but didn't meet my needs as a shooter. I'm reasonably sure that, although inspections are noted as "non-firing", the few folks I deal with would take it back to sell to someone less interested in shooting the thing unless it was unfired when I got it (so I also avoid "unfired").

    I've had singular bad luck with Pythons hence will not buy anything with a picture of a horse that I can't shoot first. This tends to exclude me from bidding on Colts generally but it makes Fuff happy. :D
     
  20. John Fugate

    John Fugate member

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    Monkeybear,
    If you intend to sell your guns as is... PUT AS IS IN PRINT. Who can agrue with that. The buyer can expect not to be able to return the product. When the terms not mentioned the seller may think he has an inspection ? You have to help people that are new to the community the best you can. Communication is the key. John
     
  21. bogie

    bogie Member

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    If I'm selling something that's more than a few bucks, I'll do some MAJOR pictures of it... And either put them on auction site, or happily email them to folks who ask.

    FWIW, Canon's nicely affordable 570 cameras have a nifty macro feature - You can get nice and close up.

    And I'll make sure to take pictures of defects. I want the buyer to know what he's getting. If there's an idiot scratch on a 1911 or a permanent fingerprint in the bluing, then they need to know that it's there.
     
  22. Guns and more

    Guns and more member

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    I agree. So far I've only bought new, but being able to look over the gun, check the action, check for defects in the finish and avoid the FFL transfer fee is worth something to me. Plus having a dealer to complain to if there is a problem later, "I bought this here and.....".
     
  23. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    I've sold several guns online (and I think they've all been in excellent condition and better than advertised) and I still sell them as is. I'll answer all questions a buyer has before the sale and provide them with any pictures they want. I take special care to photograph and point out any damage. I don't want the buyer to be surprised or unhappy. I sell everything as is. I'm not a dealer and I'm not looking to lead someone through buying a gun or waste time and money with someone who gets it and has buyers remorse, someone that doesn't know the difference between copper and rust in the bore, someone that uses it and sends it back as a free trial, someone to damages it and sends it back, etc. Anything misrepresented or misleading should come down on the seller, but be a savvy shopper and do your homework on both the gun and the seller and I think you'll be fine.

    There's a lot of good people and good guys available as is. Know what you're buying and check out the seller. While my guns are sold as is for my protection from buyers, my reputation with buyers shows I'm a good seller. Online gun shopping isn't for everyone either and there's nothing wrong with that.
     
  24. DRYHUMOR

    DRYHUMOR Member

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    Part of the as is equation concerns liability.

    Say you sold a nice gun of some sort, to a nice enough sort of person, they take it out and for whatever reason, it fails. Pieces of metal damage an eye or brain, then the lawyers get involved, then your retirement fund disappears.

    I a more trusting world filled with people who conduct their day to day business with integrity and professionalism. An inspection period would consist of:

    I pay for the gun to get to me.

    I inspect it, want it, then send the funds to you.

    or

    I inspect it, you did not describe it thoroughly, I don't want it, I pay to send it back to you.

    Sure, I'm out some shipping, but I'm not out several hundred or thousand dollars.

    Used to be a man's word meant something.

    Tell it like it is, if the stock is gouged, tell me I can restock and spend accordingly. If the bore's pitted, that's fine I can rebarrel.

    I've gotten a few guns on the internet with what might fall under the "minor handling marks" that were described. Or the "camera won't capture the mark, blemish, etc" that's fine, minor stuffs fine. I intend to use the gun most of the time.

    I stay away from the shaky, out of focus, show only one side type sales anyway. Most sellers will send more photos if you ask, and if you ask about a "blem" they will try to get a good pic of it.
     
  25. Drgong

    Drgong Member

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    If it is a rare rare gun that you been looking for, your going to have to talk to the person selling, and if they sa "As is means As is" and you don't like it, walk away.

    Actually most of my guns ARE used, (I have bought all of one pistol and one rifle NIB) but I normally buy used guns in stores or from friends so that I can inspect them.
     
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