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Guns that Pass Through Metal Detectors--Possible?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by BerettaNut92, Oct 24, 2003.

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  1. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    For academic purposes only, are they even physically possible?
     
  2. TheeBadOne

    TheeBadOne Member

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    Nemo sine vitio est
    Just watch "In the line of fire" :D
     
  3. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

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    I think I recall having read somewhere, that

    General Motors got a patent a few years back for some resilient, strong, non-brittle ceramics, intending to use them for exhaust valves in car engines. The story had it that the .gov classified and suppressed the invention because of its usability in magnetometer-indetectible firearms. Who knows?
     
  4. Brian Dale

    Brian Dale Member

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    Ceramics & other composites.

    Seems almost certain that it's possible. Prohibitively expensive to make, for anybody but a major industrial corporation, and there's no large market (being prohibited in this country, IIRC). People tease Glock owners enough for carrying "Combat Tupperware," and their barrels are steel. Joe Average won't buy a gun of composites and ceramics and couldn't afford one, even if they were legal. Sorry, Skunk! We all KNOW you're not "average!" :D Call me an example, though I hope to become a "Joe Above-Average" as I keep practicing. I hope to gather a large collection of walnut and blued steel in my lifetime. Stainless and polymer guns are wonderful, but they just don't get to the top of my gotta-have-it list as often.

    That leaves the military as a first market (of course), and they just might not be interested, at present. They have to justify their purchases to Congress, after all, and the Kennedy-Schumer-Feinstein Axis has already made its opposition known.
     
  5. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    How strong is carbon fiber?
     
  6. Brian Dale

    Brian Dale Member

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    I don't know, but I'm sure it's been investigated. The matrix it's in will have a lot to do with its characteristics, too: strength, stiffness, durability, resilience in the presence of shock. The only current high-pressure app for CF that I can think of, off the top of my head, is in pressure cylinders for compressed breathing air, at a static pressure of about 4500 psi.

    But to be the first guy on your block with a 100% carbon fiber pistol -- does it get any cooler than that? :D
     
  7. CWL

    CWL Member

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    I think that single-shot (or multibarrel) devices similiar to muzzle loaders can be manufactured out of non-metallic materials. The propellant is packed in the firing tube/barrel and fired by means of integral primer cap(perhaps battery-fired?). Probably needs to be a smoothbore barrel, but the projectile can be a self-stabilizing dart with frangible properties to maximize damage after penetration. 2-stage projectiles might work best out of a non-metallic tube -something like an updated gyrojet bullet.

    Probably only worthwhile for spy v. spy applications.
     
  8. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Very limited use would make regular production, at best, unprofitable. One-offs, on as-needed basis more likely. Probably also disposable rather than reloadable. Remeber that all sorts of more conventional weaponry can be moved across borders w/ no fuss just by putting it in diplomatic pouches.
     
  9. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Personally, I'd guess that you'd end up with something VERY bulky.
     
  10. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Given the sensitivity of detectors, how do any springs escape being found? If an electronic system of igniting the primer is to be used, it seems to me that the metals of the circuitry compound the problem.

    Art
     
  11. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    I can envision a single-shot system that uses something on the order of one of those pull-string "burglar alarms" novelty shops used to sell as ignition. You could monkey it up to work in a more trigger-like fashion if yanking a string seems to lack a certain drama.
     
  12. semf

    semf member

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    I heard that baggage thieves are carrying special made Glocks with ceramic barrels that pass thru airport detectors
     
  13. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    Guns go through all the time...
    On the hips of LEO's.
    They are there to protect us, right? :rolleyes:
     
  14. tiberius

    tiberius Member

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    LMAO :D
     
  15. AJ Dual

    AJ Dual member

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    Almost any non-ferrous materials strong enough to be used as a firearm chamber and barrel and still defeat a magnetometer would invariably be dense enough to show up easily on X-ray.

    They the new low-power backscatter X-rays that pass through clothes and reflect off anything denser like skin, belt buckle, knife etc. and gives that "naked mannequin look on the monitor" and a "Ceramic Glock-7 that costs more than you make in a year" would certainly show up... :rolleyes:

    I suppose an all-composite multi-barrel derringer like that used by John Malkovitch's assasin character in "In The Line of Fire" isn't impossible, but incredibly unlikely.

    It would have to be in pieces that could pass as innocuous items, Bullets would need to be wad-cutter in profile, preferably caseless so they looked like batteries etc. on X-ray. I could see fiberglass leaf-springs being used to power a hammer or striker.
     
  16. clipse

    clipse Member

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    I have carried my Leatherman Micra through several Metal detectors and the detectors have never gone off. (actually done this twice, once at a court house and once that the gateway arch in St. Louis) I don't suppose springs would have enough magnetic draw (or what have you) to set the detectors off unless you had some ungodly amount of springs. Of course I could and most likely am wrong. But that is my thought anyway.


    clipse
     
  17. tiberius

    tiberius Member

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    The iron in my blood sets them off at DFW.
     
  18. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    Prior to 9/11, I had a pocket knife that travelled the world with me, on any airplane, in my pocket.

    It never set off so much as a twinge from anyone's detector.

    I never tested it scientifically, but I had accidentally magnetized it by leaving it stuck to a speaker magnet overnight. (I was cutting speaker wire, stuck it to the magnet, and forgot about it)

    I've always wondered if that had anything to do with it.

    These days, it travels in checked baggage.

    Which reminds me to intone my daily ritual mantra:

    "Until every commercial cargo and passenger plane takes off with at least one trustworthy armed American on board, domestic anti terror initiatives are bull????, posturing and pretense."
     
  19. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Seems I recently read the usual suspects in congress have sponsoreda bill that would outlaw non-detectible guns.

    I just chalked it up to swatting boogie men.
     
  20. Brian Dale

    Brian Dale Member

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    Waitone, that's here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46157

    They've been generating publicity and keeping their names in the news, "Doing Something about the Scourge of GUNS, for the Chilllll-drenn," with this particular boogeyman since 1988. This foolishness is a renewal of an existing law which is expiring after 15 years.

    Which could have been Skunky's reason for beginning this thread with
     
  21. 0007

    0007 Member

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    Trust me, it depends on who last adjusted the walk-thru metal detector (NOT X-RAY). Those can be set to go off when you try to carry a large safety-pin through. Or the rivets and the zipper on your Levies. X-ray is a different beast altogether. Much more subjective - reading the display as it scans.
     
  22. Mute

    Mute Member

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    For a Glock at least, the most difficult part would be the slide and barrel. I think it's just a matter of disassembling and scattering all the metal parts throughout your carry-on luggage in a way that the average security personnel won't be able to detect it in the x-ray machine. I doub that this would be a supremely difficult task for ayone who is motivated to do so.
     
  23. dhoomonyou

    dhoomonyou Member

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    gene hackman movie

    There was a movie starring gene hackman a few years ago where he is a thief who gets a KELTEC in a ziploc bag past security by hiding it in his coffee cup.
    If they can make ceramic tiles for the shuttle a gun barrel should be no problem. spys might even have them already. bond...james bond..
     
  24. tiberius

    tiberius Member

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    Didn't the KGB supposedly have some hand cycled 3 shot disposible plastic rimfire they used for this sort of thing? Maybe not, but I thought I remember some non-fictional account of these.
     
  25. Black Snowman

    Black Snowman Member

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    The tiles on the shuttle are actually extremely brittle. Wouldn't work well in a "containment" scenario. The nose is quite solid but it's a block of carbon. Most ceramics will have excelent compression strength but the tenstile strength needed to contain a propellent charge isn't really viable.

    Carbon fiber is highly conductive and at high temperatures even flamable (depending on the resin) so I would count it out for a barrel or chamber.

    Best bet for getting past a metal detector would be titanium. It's strong enough and non-ferrous. If it's a simple enough gun so that ferrous metals could be kept to a minimum it should get past a metal detector, but an x-ray would catch it just fine.
     
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