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Guns With Safeties

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by Good Ol' Boy, Nov 26, 2019.

  1. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy member

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    I was originally going to ask about how you 1911 guys use or dont use safeties throughout a stage, and am still intered in that question.

    However when perusing the IDPA rules (which is what I mainly shoot) I came across something kind of weird so I thought I'd ask here.

    Section 8.2.1.1 Start Condition

    D. Manual safeties may be used at the shooters discretion.


    That leaves two questions for me. One is the obvious holstering a SA type pistol with the safety off as an option. And two, what I was initially going to ask about, which is whether or not you engage your safety while moving throughout a stage.


    Worthwhile feedback would be appreciated.

    FWIW I dont currently shoot a gun with a safety but I might down the road.
     
  2. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Looking at you avatar, one would think you would.
     
  3. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    There are some games I play, where I use pistols that have no safety’s. Goofy rules require goody choices.
    There are some games where dropping an SV and an RO picks it up and decides the safety is off, you are DQ’ed. You could throw a Glock in a barrel and be fine though.

    If you don’t want to be a guy where rules are “interpreted” you might have one feeling, others might have others...
     
  4. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    You're quoting the section incorrectly and incompletely. 8.2.2.1 is a subsection of 8.2.2 Enhanced Service Pistol (ESP)
    Section D reads:
    DA, DAO, or striker fired firearms may have a manual safety engaged at the shooter's discretion

    Section D doesn't apply to SA type pistols

    The applicable section for SAO pistols is Section A

    This is at the shooters discretion...the only IDPA requirement is that you have your trigger finger outside the trigger guard while moving. I know many very competitive shooters who flick the thumb safety on whenever they aren't actively engaging a target .

    It has been so long since I've competed with my 1911 that I can't remember if I do or don't. My guess is that I did engage the thumb safety, because that is how I was trained. It doesn't take any extra time to take the safety off as your thumb should be riding on top of the safety lever anyway.
     
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  5. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    You absolutely must use the safety on a 1911 or other single action hammer fired gun before holstering. It's an immediate DQ otherwise.

    You don't have to use it in between positions when moving through a stage, and I've NEVER met anyone who does that.
     
  6. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Pretty much this. I have heard on a podcast that JJ Racaza does apply the safety while moving... but I'm skeptical that's correct. I can't think of anyone else who does it.
     
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  7. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    I don't believe that at all. No way.

     
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  8. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    i shoot striker fired guns with no safety these days, but back when i shot 1911s, it was always safety off as i'm coming into the target and then safety back on as i go back to ready. but obviously when trying to get .3 sec transitions between targets, my thumb isn't fast enough to flip the safety twice in .3 sec.
     
  9. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    For you guys doing it this way....do you put the safety on during reloads too?
     
  10. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I'm not a Super Squad Shooter, but sometimes on the long track meet moves, I mysteriously find my safety engaged when I find the next array.
     
  11. Igloodude

    Igloodude Member

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    I'm only a year into USPSA, but safety disengaged on the draw and re-engaged when holstering. Though, I come to this from several years in Bullseye, where I literally never engaged the safety on my (all safety-equipped) pistols. Slide locked back, mag removed and (at some matches) open-chamber flag is the requirement there.
     
  12. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    That matches my experience as well. I shoot a DA/SA and I draw with the hammer down and safety on (It's required I think.) Once the safety is off, I don't engage it again until I'm done and showing clear.
     
  13. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    Safety on is not required for a DA gun with the hammer down. When I shoot my Tanfoglio in Production I never use the safety.
     
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  14. Archie

    Archie Member

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    Once again, "competition" confuses reality again. But it's a fun game, so have at.
     
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  15. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    Do they? Do soldiers carry their 92FS with the safety on once they use the decocker?
    And why does the 92G exist if the safety is important?
     
  16. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    I shoot ESP in IDPA.

    I disengage the safety as part of my drawstroke (step 2 if you're into a 4 count) and other than the initial "Load and make ready", I've yet to re-holster during a stage in a match. The only exceptions I've seen to date are during a classifier. During movement etc. my safety remains off and as the others said, finger outside the trigger guard.

    3Gun is a different story as some stages you may have the option to re-holster a hot gun.

    In SSP DA/SA guns start with hammer down, safety engagement is optional:

     
  17. Hoser

    Hoser Moderator Staff Member

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    Not here. Load up at the clearing barrel, decock and ensure the safety is on fire.

    Same exact thing I do with my 92 (when I am stupid enough to shoot it) when I shoot IPSC or IDPA.
     
  18. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    For SAO Guns:
    If you are shooting the gun, safety off.

    If you are done shooting the gun, safety on.

    If you are reloading the gun with intent to shoot it right after, you're not done shooting it.

    I have been having a good time getting used to safeties on the Sig Legion 226 SAO

    DA/SA guns (IMO) are better served with a de-cocker instead of a safety. No need for a safety on a DA/SA gun, IMO.
     
  19. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I looked hard at a P226 SAO (would rather have had the earlier Elite than the Legion with straight trigger and funky finish) but while the safety was no problem for my 1911 hand, the slide stop was. I had previously worked with a P226 DA/SA and thought the SAO lever would be more convenient. Not much.

    CZ and TZ DA/SAs are very popular in USPSA Production and their thumb safety means they have to be manually decocked at LAMR. I did it for a season, but some SOs were kind of nervous about it.
    Beretta is following in their footsteps with the 92X Performance.
    All of these guns have sister models with decockers, I don't know why a shooter required to make a DA start would not get one.
     
  20. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    I like the straight trigger. I've had one from Gray Guns on my DA/SA 226 for years.

    I do find the slide release on the SAO model to be hard to get to/work.

    and the slide release is very stiff. hoping that gets better with use.

    I am getting better at getting it but grabbing the slide and letting go for a reload is more reliable for this particular model.
     
  21. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Yes, but I didn't want to learn a new manual of arms.
    I bought a STI.
     
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  22. johnmcl

    johnmcl Member

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    I'm an active CDP, Expert class, IDPA guy on a traditional 1911. Here's my world:
    • The safety goes on last in the sequence initiated by the "Load and Make Ready" command
    • The safety is off during reloads
    • The safety is on during movement, with trigger finger on the slide.
    • The safety goes on last in the "Show Clear" sequence
    This protocol is so ingrained that I swipe off my imaginary safety when shooting Glocks.
     
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  23. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I, too, am a regular IDPA, some USPSA shooter, 1911 or 2011. (Except for a brief dalliance with a Plastic Smith in CCP earlier this year.)
    The safety goes on immediately the slide goes down LAMR.
    The safety goes off as the gun is presented to the first target.
    The safety will occasionally go on for long movement on a USPSA Field Course or maximum IDPA Scenario, but usually not; finger out of the guard to move and load.

    How do you put the safety on after ULSC? You have dropped the hammer and MY 1911 safeties won't engage when not cocked.

    Years and years ago, I shot PPC. The local league started out pretty relaxed so I shot a Gold Cup. Then they went official and I had to shoot a revolver. I rubbed the cylinder latch on that Python shinier than Royal trying to hit the "safety" all the first season.
     
  24. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart member

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    All of this makes me glad I have my own rules and do what the heck I want or carry what I want, at least as far as the law requires.I was a competitor in another sport for decades and know what the dedication of competing cost and time. For me, shooting competition would mean every single day and a whole lot of ammo. My own course or access to one daily. I Have a hard enough time as it is just shooting 1500- 2,000 rds a month of 9mm alone.22.cal adds to the cost as well.
    But my Hat is off to those that do dedicate themselves to it. Hope you fella's figure out what safety they tell you to use.
     
  25. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    Fudd alert
     
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