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GunsAmerica on the Marketplace Fairness Act & Effect on FFL's

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Bubbles, Apr 23, 2013.

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  1. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    GunsAmerica Supports Interstate Tax Bill – 20 Points to Protect 2nd Amendment Freedom

    While I do not support an internet sales tax, GunsAmerica does raise some good points. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in Congress, since forcing internet merchants to collect/remit sales taxes nationwide is technically not passing a "tax increase" (though the net effect will be the same), it is forcing the merchant to collect/remit a tax that the purchaser should have been paying for many decades.
     
  2. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    I live in washington state, where it is now law that FFL's must collect sales tax on used guns shipped in from other states. I suppose it was always the law, but it was the purchasers responsibility to calculate and submit sales tax on out of state items purchased online....Now its a requirement for FFL's to do it.
    Now, here is where I disagree. I buy primarily used guns online. That gun was already taxed at time of original sale. Now I get taxed a second time? Hmm.....
    My FFL HATES the law, she HATES it with a passion. Her take; "I didn't sell this gun, I'm not making any money on it other than transfer fee's...why is it my responsibility to maintain paperwork, and charge tax on a sale I DIDN'T MAKE on profits I DIDN'T EARN? The IRS isn't going to give me any slack, even if I didn't make the sale, if my paperwork gets screwed up."

    So there you have it. It will be more incentive for a gunshop to start making out of state sales via online services, rather than accepting out of state transfers, so they aren't burdened by collecting and turning in sales tax, maintaining paperwork on taxes collected from OTHER PEOPLES sales. Why would I take transfers at that point if I were an FFL? Thats a lot of liability, considering I'm not making a lot on each transfer, and I'm doing someone else's bookkeeping for them for free, under penalty of law.
    So an interstate sales tax could conceivably work to push LGS's from doing transfers as well.

    Tough decision, I know I purchase a lot of goods online, and guns are the only thing I've been taxed on as far as out of state sales. Seems the gun industry should be doing a lot to focus attention on other industries that AREN'T paying their fair share at all, rather than focusing on how to make gunowners comply fully and to the letter even as other industries aren't. I know that's just pointing the finger the other way, but dammit, we as gunowners already face overly onerous licensing, taxation, and shipping policies.

    The sales tax isn't a new tax, as stated by the administrators of Gunsamerica. However, the gun industry is about the only industry singled out for special treatment in tax collection of out of state sales tax on used goods
    (yes, used cars too. But can't you purchase a used car, and never register it, and not pay sales tax? Don't know if it works like that, where I'm at, all vehicles must be registered to the buyer regardless of condition, within 30 days of sale, something like that)

    Edit: taxation purely to "level the playing field" is a disservice to the consumer. LGS's aren't entitled to stay in business. I've seen too many LGS's go out of business because the owner was an ASS. I've also seen LGS's expand their income and grow, due to expanded product lines, quality customer service, and successful marketing.

    My state has raised taxes 1 trillion dollars. The state budget is STILL not balanced. Collecting sales tax is not the answer, and handing that money over to the state would only encourage further fiscal irresponsibility.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  3. deadin

    deadin Member

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    This goes right along with the Washington Arms Collectors new rule (mandated by the State) that if you take a table more than twice a year at their venues, you are considered a "vendor" and need to have a State Business License and collect/submit sales tax.....:barf: (This includes personal, private, face to face sales)
     
  4. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    The more I think about this, the less I like GA's stance, and the less I like sales tax on out of state goods.
    What is the purpose of a state sales tax? isn't it to maintain state public infrastructure?
    This taxation "just because", using historical taxation as a precedence, is just wrong. Taxing because you can is wrong. Taxes cover costs of public infrastructure. Why do I need to cover another state's infrastructure?
    Do I have representation in that state? Do I get to vote in every district that has charged me taxes on goods?

    Also, how is this impacted by Article 1 Section 9 of the US Constitution;

    “No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.”

    ?
     
  5. potmetal

    potmetal Member

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    How do they calculate the tax, since it is not actually a purchase made in the store? What if a gun comes in from an out of state dealer and there's no invoice stating price, just the buyer's name and auction number? Do you take the buyer's word that he bought that classic Colt Python for $100 in an auction? Do you base it on Blue Book value?
     
  6. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    I have had that exact situation happen to me. The gun was purchased used via online auction for a very good price, was shipped without an invoice to my FFL, and he didn't believe me when I told him the price, said he wanted a printed invoice from the seller, or nothing. He wouldn't complete the transfer BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT HIS BOOKS SCREWED UP FROM ANOTHER DEALERS SALE, and my gun got sent back to the seller. I received a refund minus shipping, so it basically cost me $30 for that little fiasco.

    Again, it seems to me this is doing nothing but adding an additional burden to the consumer, for the benefit of the government.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  7. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    That usually only applies IF you drive it off your property. If you have a large ranch snd it never leaves the property, you do not (typically) have to register it.
    It isnt only guns being singled out for the taxes.Amazon, Cabelas and other major retailers with 50-state sales are going to be raising prices to cover the additional cost of collecting this tax. It is going to be a real nightmare, especially for smaller companies who do not have the computer or man power to handle all of the nationwide taxes
     
  8. deadin

    deadin Member

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    Not saying I support it, but I thought the idea was that the tax would be calculated as though you bought the item in your state from a local shop and the tax would be remitted to your state's tax department.
    (Of course there will be a "charge" by the selling entity to do the paperwork. AFAIK Amazon already does this on most sales.)
     
  9. Piratesailor

    Piratesailor Member

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    They need to call it what it is.. Firstly it's a money grab. Secondly if its a "fairness tax" then it's not a tax at all but a tariff which is bad all the way around. These idiots continue to monkey with the free market and it's going to ruin us.
     
  10. PT92

    PT92 Member

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    When I received their email I was initially appalled as Americans are being taxed to the point of being on the verge of another "Boston Tea Party." That said, I can see their point and let's face it, we all knew the internet tax-free party would come to an end (I don't know of a single-soul who ever thought it would indefinitely live on).
     
  11. HOOfan_1

    HOOfan_1 Member

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    I work for a State Agency. When we render services for Virginia residents, we charge sales tax. When we render services to out of state residents...even those we ship out of state, we charge no tax. This is a State Agency....
     
  12. Blackhawk30

    Blackhawk30 Member

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    I haven't bought any guns online.Online prices aren't much better than local Virginia gun shows.I prefer to look the gun over before I buy it.I've seen an awful lot of complaints about guns that were bought online.I think the online dealers are not doing any quality control on the guns they sell.That means looking at what was shipped to them and sending back the defec tive ones.
     
  13. Bruno2

    Bruno2 Member

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    This is more of an attempt to bring money back to local retailers. Let's face it if you have to pay sales tax and shipping then all of he sudden its not cheaper than what you can get it for locally.
     
  14. PT92

    PT92 Member

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    However, I think the true objective of the "Fairness Act" is obvious to all:

    Yet another government grab for your wallet (guised as 'helping out the local retailer). I say I am taxed enough, period.
     
  15. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    Time for a tax revolt guys. It has become ridiculous. Add up all the taxes you pay including:

    Fed income tax
    State income tax
    Local income tax
    Property tax
    Real Estate tax
    Real Estate transfer tax
    Sales tax
    Energy taxes
    Utility taxes

    (Incomplete list)

    See what percentage of your hard earned dollars go to taxes each year. It is absolutely ludicrous, and they think they can just keep raising them and wasting our money.
     
  16. lamazza

    lamazza Member

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    It will put online dealers out of business.
    Why would I , as a buyer, pay for sales tax AND shipping.
     
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