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Guy commits suicide at local range.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Ukraine Train, Aug 19, 2004.

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  1. Ukraine Train

    Ukraine Train Member

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    I haven't looked for any news articles yet but I've now heard the story from two different people. This happened in Toledo, OH. A guy came into the store, rented a gun, went into the range shot himself in the head. I can't imagine being there for that...
     
  2. wasrjoe

    wasrjoe Member

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    What an idiot. Suicide is one thing, public suicide earns a "good riddance" from me. Perhaps I am insensitive.
     
  3. gbelleh

    gbelleh Member

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    That's happened a couple times in the range where I shoot. I hope it never happens when I'm there. :eek: :barf:
     
  4. Vapor63

    Vapor63 Member

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    I agree with you man! When someone decides to kill themselves, thats sad. When someone decides to take everyone down with them, in this case, the anti gun-control movement, thats just inconsiderate.
     
  5. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

    Some persons have lots of problems, even more than others'; but
    suicide is not the answer!


    Respectfully,
    Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
     
  6. PBIR

    PBIR Member

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    On target with that one Dan.
     
  7. XLMiguel

    XLMiguel Member

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    We've had a couple at a local range out by Chantilly. I won't comment on why people do stuff like that, but it is damn inconsiderate of the folks who have to clean up after you.:rolleyes:
     
  8. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I believe a case can be made for suicide.

    I'm very sure there's no justification for making a mess for someone else to clean up.
     
  9. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    At least do it in private --- even so tho, some poor sucker has to mop up brains and bone fragments.

    Sad - very sad.:(
     
  10. >SHOCK<^>WAVE<

    >SHOCK<^>WAVE< Member

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    I suspect they probably didn't have the money to buy a gun and that was the only affordable method since most suicides are precluded by financial problems, still very disgusting and wrong.
     
  11. Damon

    Damon Member

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    I've heard of this at our local range also.
     
  12. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra Member

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    One of the ranges here has a policy where you can't rent a gun unless you have someone with you. I guess a couple years ago, someone rented a gun, took it into the bathroom and used it on himself.

    :uhoh:
     
  13. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Awfully sad.

    Particularly sad are the suicides by people who don't have any good reason, which is probably 99%. It's somewhat understandable from someone who has a terminal disease, or the elderly person who has no family and has just lost their spouse, but the vast majority of these are kids who have an entire, potentially great, life in front of them, or just someone with a mental illness.

    Of course Sarah Brady et al, will be happy to exploit this for their agenda, feigning ignorance that jumping, self-hanging or carbon-monoxide poisoning are just as lethal methods of suicide.
     
  14. Ukraine Train

    Ukraine Train Member

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    http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbc...40810&Kategori=NEWS03&Lopenr=408100349&Ref=AR

    Article published Tuesday, August 10, 2004

    CLELAND'S COPES WITH TRAGEDY
    Suicidal shooters find ranges are convenient
    Renting firearm easier than buying one

    By ROBIN ERB
    BLADE STAFF WRITER

    It's a tragedy that has played out across the nation's firing ranges, and Saturday it struck Cleland's Outdoor World on Airport Highway.

    Marked as a convicted sex offender and facing the end of his career and marriage, Richard Borruso, 52, a pharmacist who lived on Dussel Drive in Maumee, walked in to Cleland's, set down $40 in cash, went into a practice booth, and shot himself in the head.

    "This fellow was completely calm and composed," said Mike Mobley, who was practicing in the stall next to Borruso's.

    While owner Theresa Cleland said it was the first suicide in Cleland's 20-year history, ranges across the country have been the site of public suicides by people seeking easy access to a gun.

    Renting a firearm at a firing range allows a person to bypass the federal waiting period required to buy a gun. Borruso's conviction last year of molesting a 14-year-old girl may have made such a purchase improbable.

    Preventing deaths on firing ranges might be impossible - and dangerous, said Rick Patterson, executive director of the National Association of Shooting Ranges, who said such shootings occur "from time to time."

    For one thing, there are no red flag behaviors that would hint at such an intention, he said.

    "It's quite the opposite," he said, adding that suicidal individuals may appear calm or relaxed. "What the psychologists have told us is that these people have made their decision."

    "And the psychologists have told us, if you try to interfere, go into harm's way, you've created an unsafe situation," he added.

    In Ohio, there are few regulations on shooting ranges. State law gives Ohio Department of Natural Resources' Division of Wildlife authority to set some regulations, but those are limited to nuisance type restrictions such as limits on noise levels, said Jim Lehman, a district manager for the wildlife division.

    That means there are no background checks and no detailed questionnaires on a shooter's history on a gun range.

    The first concern for range owners is how safely someone can handle firearms, said Jim Fletcher, general manager at Toledo Trap and Skeet. He said staff at his range query a potential user about their experience with guns, and users might be asked to demonstrate the handling of their weapon and its safety features before they're allowed on the range.

    "It's a matter of how much do we police it?" Mr. Fletcher said. "We limit the accessibility to our range to those who can demonstrate the ability to handle firearms safely."

    Even if they asked questions about someone's background or mental stability that day, range staff would have to rely on the applicant's truthfulness, he noted.

    Certainly it wouldn't be easy for staff to foresee such a suicidal plan, according to Dr. Douglas Jacobs, an associate clinical professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School known for his expertise on detecting suicidal signs.

    Of the 30,000 estimated suicides each year in the U.S., about 1,500 are committed inside the confines of a hospital where staff are trained to watch for such behavior, he said.

    "If [suicidal persons] can do it in a hospital, they can do it on a firing range," Dr. Jacobs said. Firing range staff are "not clinicians and they're not expected to be."

    Still, this doesn't make it any easier for folks like Theresa Cleland. She had heard of such suicides at other ranges around the country, and, in fact, a Cleland's customer tried to kill himself several years ago.

    But putting in more rules and regulations, she said, would not stop deaths like that of Borruso, who was facing the revocation of his pharmacist's license because of last year's conviction, and last week had attended a court hearing on his pending divorce.

    "Believe me, I've shed tears," she said. But "I can't punish the world for what one person did."

    Lucas County Sheriff's Detective Cathy Stooksbury, who handled the suicide case, noted that the man who tried to kill himself at Cleland's several years ago, ultimately did so through another means.

    "If someone really wants to do this," she said, "they're going to."

    Contact Robin Erb at:
    robinerb@theblade.com
    or 419-724-6133.
     
  15. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    It beats having a news conference like Bud Dwyer did in Philly 20 some years ago.
     
  16. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

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    There probably wouldn't be a mess if the government, society and the churches didn't think they owned a persons life.

    We give our animals a decent humane death but we force people into a terrible messy death that is hard on every one around them.

    It's inexcusable that someone has to blow their brains out when they could take a pill and peacefully go to sleep.
     
  17. azrael

    azrael Member

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    P5 guy...yea a group called Filter even wrote a song about that incedent...I have watched it (the video of the shooting) more than once...The guy is babbling somewhat before he does it, but doesnt seem to upset about it..more or less "nonchalant"...


    IMHO about 85-90% of suicides are as Ala Dan said...<permanent solution's to a temporary problem.>..

    however
    I decided many years ago, that if I was dignosed with an incurable disease I would take care of matters myself before I allowed my family to bear the burden of caring for me financially...Ruin, no matter the way it happens is ruin ...

    In Private to me is the best way... below is what I decided was the more or less "trouble" free way of doing it
    Lots of woods around where I live...call the police before I wander off into the woods with a single barrell 12 gauge...no mess to clean up...Animals need to eat as well...heck, since I am a machinist and brakeman by trade, I could prolly make a serviceable shot gun to do the deed with...


    be advised...I am not advocating ANYONE taking there own life and noone should think that I am...just stating my opinion
     
  18. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

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    azrael
    I decided many years ago, that if I was dignosed with an incurable disease I would take care of matters myself before I allowed my family to bear the burden of caring for me financially...Ruin, no matter the way it happens is ruin ...
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Azrael,
    That's downright un American of you.
    You are supposed to lay in the hospital for a couple weeks so you can wipe out all the savings you put aside for your family to live on if you died.

    Ya, I've got my own woods. ;)
     
  19. Ric

    Ric Member

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    That happened at a range in Ft. Wayne a couple of years ago, they stopped renting guns. So did a local gun range
    It's a shame
     
  20. Trebor

    Trebor Member

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    There was a weird suicide incident at a range in Royal Oak a few years ago. The guy apparently offed himself in the restroom. The weird thing was, he was found handcuffed to the handicapped bar in the stall.

    I don't know if it was a rental gun or his own gun.
     
  21. SodiumBenzoate

    SodiumBenzoate Member

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    ....


    :banghead:

    I hope they meant background check.
     
  22. themic

    themic Member

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    a range i used to rent guns at asked you alot of the same questions as are asked when you purchase - are you a felon, are you insane, etc.

    of course, there was no actual check done - just a sheet of paper with your signature on it.
     
  23. Tharg

    Tharg Member

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    Said it in a different post and i'll say it again here.

    If you've never been there you don't know.

    I've been at the spot... loaded HK USP .40 compact w/ one in the barrel. Safety was on.... not that i dind't know how to turn it off. Drink in one hand w/ a smoke dangling between fingers.

    at that exact moment in time - and the VERY fast and dangerous drive home - i didn't feel excited, scared, worried, anxious, happy, sad, .... i felt ...................................... nothing.

    When a person gets to that point.... hell i don't know. I don't know if i would have gone through w/ it... but either way it would have turned out - the gf's kid came home. (he was supposed to be staying at grandma's... about 100 yrds away) Once i got him put to bed - it had decided itself and i was going to put the gun away - but not before i decided to point the gun at myself in the rather large mirror in the bathroom and start to pull the trigger... thinking i knew where the sear point was.... well ... i didn't. Hole through the mirror, two bits of sheetrock and federal hydrashok was fragmented in the laundry room cabniet doors behind that....

    of course - 1st thought was the kid... and the noise... mag pop - jack slide - put up gun in closet... assure child all was well. (somehow)

    I vowed never EVER to be "there" again. and i won't be. Too many <insert male nastyness here> to do, too many friends to laugh with, so many times w/ my brother... the love of my ever loving life... to NOT live till its really time.

    Suicide is the culmination of being too stuck on yourself. Its the ultimate pitty party... the most selfish you can get. Its wanting to quickly be gone from something and not caring what it does to ANYONE else. Always makes me wonder how many "finacial problem" suicides might have won the lottery.... or heck - even "happened" into that dream job. Ya don't know if ya don't go - and so they chose....? what? nothing?!? It can't be religious... don't know many that say its ok... even the samurai did it for honor... not for themselves... same w/ comacasies (spelling i'm sure)

    Course - here i am ... w/ a kid who's mom can get suicidal (and has tried it on the edge... wasn't convinced she should go i guess) and a dad who DID commit suicide... wondering when he's gonna off himself - while at the same time going i'm sick and tired of him using us when he can't think of another way to go.... (and being downright obvious about it)

    bah

    life sucks.... sometimes it just sucks less. (and then sometimes ya get to go shoot a LOT of ammo at nothing - and yer grinning ear to ear....) who is to say. =)

    rofl - ANYWAY - the point was to say ya - no one is gonna know when that person shows up at a range to shoot if they are going to off themselves... they prolly seem affable... they've made thier decision. The one's who haven't... won't be there is my guess.

    J/Tharg!
     
  24. twoblink

    twoblink Member

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    Hello??

    Pool? Bathtub? 5 gallon paint bucket? mini blinds? Jump in front of moving traffic?

    Hairdryer + bathtub = expensive electricity bill and a free ride to hell..

    At least do the gun owners a favor... geez... Even in death, the anti's ruin everything..
     
  25. Gabe

    Gabe Member

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    My local range also has a suicide prevention policy. You either had to bring a friend or your own gun to rent theirs. I guess the idea was if you had your own gun you wouldn't go there to shoot yourself.

    A perfectly planned day of shooting was derailed by this policy.
     
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