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H&R model 929 .22 revolver

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing and Repairs' started by Stand_Watie, Mar 20, 2004.

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  1. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    I bought a pistol today that I think was unfired and had according to the seller (according to the person he'd bought it from), been sitting in a closet for 20 or 25 years. It misfires about every 3rd round. The misfires usually go on the second turn around. I think that original owner might have bought it, loaded it and left it with the trigger cocked for a long period weakening the hammer spring. Cocking the hammer the spring feels weak. The cylinder also hangs just slightly when opening it about every other time and needs the hammer pulled back just a smidgen to release the cylinder. Does anybody here have any experience with replacing the springs in H&R revolvers? Is it a difficult job? Anything else that this sounds like to you?

    It's really a nice little (albeit inexpensive) gun, but I don't really want to put 60 or 80 dollars worth of gunsmithing into a 100 dollar gun. Any ideas?
     
  2. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Take off the grips and see if it has a coil mainspring - which I expect it does.

    If so, go to www.e-gunparts.com, look up your model, buy a spring, and put it in. This shouldn't be hard too do. I suspect someone cut down the old spring, which is the reason the gun hasn't been used.
     
  3. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    There were a couple of different types of mainspring and guide used on those guns. Remove the grips and you should see a heavy coil spring and a spring seat. Cock the hammer and you will see that the spring guide sticks out the bottom of the spring seat and has a hole in it. Put a paperclip through the hole and release the hammer and you can pull the spring and guide out. (When replacing, insert the unit and cock the hammer to remove the paperclip.)

    One type of guide has a rounded end and fits in a slot in the hammer. Another has an arm with two "ears" that is either metal or plastic. The parts should be available from Gun Parts Corp. (www.gunpartscorp.com), but for the type with the "ears" they only sell the complete unit for about $9. Just about any gunsmith should be able to come up with a spring, but most harware store springs are not strong enough.

    Jim
     
  4. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Well I've only taken the grips off of it so far. I looked at it a bit, but didn't have much time so didn't attempt any further dissasembly (probably a good thing).

    Something I thought kind of curious that I thought I'd throw out here before I did any more fiddling with it, because I thought it might ring a bell for someone, at the top of the mainspring assembly there appears to be a small piece of white (ivory colored) plastic rattling around loose between the spring and the right side of the frame. I figured it's a particular part that has broken loose of it's moorings?
     
  5. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Yup, that's probably at the bottom of your troubles. It's the part of the mainspring guide rod that rests against the hammer. If the plastic part is broken off you'd be having exactly the troubles you are.

    When H&R went out of business most if not all of their remaining inventory parts were bought by Numrich/The Parts Corp. in West Hurley, NY. (www.gunpartscorp.com). Over the years H&R used different designs of this particular part so you will have to give them a full description of what you have, a good drawing or photograph, or send the broken part to them.

    Usually this part is sold as an assembly that includes the guide rod, mainspring and the mainspring guide seat. The cost, I think, is around 10 or 12 dollars. I'd buy the whole assembly and exchange it for the one that's in the gun. Doing so will not require further disassembly of the gun. The only trick is to be sure the longer projection on the plastic part is up.
     
  6. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Here's the part

    the plastic piece is broken in half - I took it out and superglued it back together and it worked great for the first three rounds and then broke again... I stuck it back together for this scan but you can see the crack clearly.

    [​IMG]
     

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  7. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Just what I thought. Numrich/The Parts Corporation will sell you a new one.

    I never did like plastic parts in any application that involved a heavy spring.
     
  8. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Thanks for the help guys. I doubt I'd have even attempted what seems to be mechanically speaking a fairly simple task without having the good advice. Ain't the internet great?
     
  9. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    Gun Parts Corp. lists both a plastic and a metal part. I am not sure, but I think they are the same, the plastic was just cheaper to make. You might try the metal part and see if it works OK (including rebounding the hammer). If it does, you have something better than plastic.

    FWIW, I have made a few of those from steel, as I got so frustrated with them breaking. Not cost effective, as I could never charge for the time I had in the part, but I never got any comebacks either. Today, it would be a great part to make by MIM.

    Jim
     
  10. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Well I figured the steel part wouldn't fit and went ahead and ordered the plastic...I guess if it breaks I'll know I should have checked it out more carefully in advance.
     
  11. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Well I got the part Monday night and put things back together Tuesday afternoon


    *Giant sigh*

    They seem to have sent me a mainspring assembly with a spring that is too small to do the job. Check out this scan. The *new* spring is the lower, smaller one.

    With the new assembly with the new spring the gun doesn't fire at all. With the new assembly with the old spring the gun gets about 7 to 8 fires out of a cylinder, a slight improvement over the 5 to 6 it was getting.

    [​IMG]
     

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  12. TimRB

    TimRB Member

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    "They seem to have sent me a mainspring assembly with a spring that is too small to do the job. Check out this scan. The *new* spring is the lower, smaller one."

    I also had the plastic part broken on my mainspring, and also received a part that was too weak to do the job. I ended up using the new plastic part with the original mainspring, and now the gun at least fires. The firing pin impression left on a fired case suggests that it is just barely working.

    I have made a mental note to give this gun to the first person I meet who wants a 22 revolver. I don't know why I bought it in the first place.

    Tim
     
  13. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    This is a long shot (pardon the pun) but be sure that the guide rod isn't assembled upside down.

    An e-mail to where ever you bought the assembly (I presume it was Numrich/The Parts Corp.) might bring a different spring - or whatever.

    Generally speaking, I have found the little 929's to be reliable if everything is what it should be.
     
  14. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Yeah I emailed Numrich and got a form letter in response stating their return policy. Big help huh?

    I guess I'll start checking hardware stores and see if I can find a beefier spring.

    Anyone else know any other parts companies that might sell H&R parts?
     
  15. JackM

    JackM Member

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    I just took a look at mine. The mainspring guide is right side up in both pictures above. My spring has the closed ends like your original one has. How far does your firing pin project through the recoil shield? It's hard to measure, but it should stick out half it's height.

    Next question. Have you tried some different ammo? There's some half primed junk out there. Give the misfires half a turn and try them again. If half of them fire, that's your problem.

    Bye
    Jack
     
  16. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Jack and Tim; I sent another email to Numrich, this one a little more pointed, and today another spring arrived in the mail. This one is quite a bit longer, see photo below. I included the shipping invoice #'s in case you wanted to ask them for one Tim. I was perhaps a little uncharitable in my last assessment of Numrich, as the new spring doesn't make it fire any more reliably, making me think that the spring (and perhaps even the broken head) wasn't the cause of the problem, but were just perhaps additional problems, and in the case of the spring perhaps not a problem at all. I tried out some different ammo and got the same result. The firing pin is projecting through the recoil sheild less than 1/8th of an inch, nowhere near 1/2 it's length (from the base of the pin to the tip looks to be about 5/16ths of an inch, although it might be 1/2 the heighth if you are measuring at the very tip of the squared off triangle that forms the firing pin). It looks like the base of the hammer is bringing up fully against it's stop, do you suppose that it's possible the pin is worn down or broken off partially? It doesn't look like it's broken or worn, it's perfectly squared off on the end, not at all ragged. I'm getting light little impressions on all my casings whether they fired or not.

    The replacement spring they sent me is the one on the bottom of the scan. It is substantially longer, but not markedly (if at all) greater diameter.

    [​IMG]
     

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  17. TimRB

    TimRB Member

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    FWIW, I just took a look at my firing pin, and it's the same as you describe. I think H&R simply used a weak spring. I myself am not worried about it, since my gun fires, and I don't shoot it much anyway, but if I were, I would get an industrial spring catalog (or find a web site) and buy a stronger spring of the same dimensions.

    On the other hand, your plastic part broke, mine broke, probably many others did, too... Maybe the spring is weak because they've already found that the correct spring destroys the plastic much too fast. I bet someone with a mill could fabricate a part out of aluminum in no time, but then, it *is* a $100 gun.

    Tim
     
  18. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    The guide rod does two things. First the obvious; it hold the mainspring. Second, it rebounds the hammer. If you remove the cylinder, cock the hammer, pull the trigger and lower the hammer while holding back the trigger the firing pin should come through the breechface. Then as you let the trigger move forward the hammer should rebound so that the firing pin is back inside the breechface. If something is wrong the hammer will fall, but not far enough to hit the case rim, or it will hit the caserim with a light strike. I am beginning to think that either this guide rod is not the correct one for this particular model revolver, or that it is somehow incorrectly assembled. Since using a stronger spring apparently didn't make any difference I think the cause of the problem lies elsewhere.
     
  19. Poor Muttly

    Poor Muttly Member

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    I was just given the same gun with the same problem yesterday!

    Howdy Stand_Watie!

    A friend gave me a 4" (wish it were 6!) H&R 929 and it fails to fire almost every other time, with light primer hits. It has to be slightly half-cocked in order to release the cylinder too. What a coincidence. It is also missing the rear sight, but otherwise it is in great condition!

    Your adventure is just what I need...someone to figure it out for me! I was going to try to stretch the coil spring out a little....have not checked for broken plastic yet, but no plastic fell out when I removed the black plastic grips....well....a little mangled, cylindrical piece of what I took to be a screw or drift pin did....and I thought it may be from the sight coming off...looked like that diameter. Probably from the spring mount somewhere, though...I guess.

    Well, at least it fits this black Mexican tooled leather Hollywood style pawnshop-special belt and holster I pried the .22WMRF rounds out of, and soaked in water to shrink down.

    Hope you solved my problem by now...so I can get working on my next gun frustration...I shudder to imagine what, though.
     
  20. Squantos

    Squantos Member

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    Very Cool Mr Muttly....

    Good Info Muttly !, Did ya get my e-mail ?
     
  21. mikdav

    mikdav Member

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    I have been having the exact same problem with a little 930 22lr I bought. The plastic head on the guide rod was broken and only about half of the 9 rounds woud fire. So I bought a new recoil spring assy. complete with new plastic head, guide rod and spring. Well, still the same problem. Very light strikes on the heads of the 22 cases? Somebody needs to figure this out. This is a very nice little 22 and needs to be shot. Also I've noticed that I have one hole out of the 9 that will fire everytime? I can move a shell that did not fire to this one hole and bang! Everytime????
    Mike
     
  22. AJAX22

    AJAX22 Member

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    Just a thought, but I had a buddy who had one of these, and his problem wasn't just the spring (although that was weak)

    someone had dry fired the gun and the rim of the cylinder was worn down and burred, and the firing pin was not making a strong enough indention to reliably set off the round.

    Just increasing the spring tension did not fix the problem, (and he REALLY increased the spring tension)

    you might want to check the cylinder for wear on the rear lip before getting too deep into the project.

    That being said, I have a couple of .22 revolvers that I absolutly love, and I'm always on the lookout for more. once you fix yours you'll have a blast, no matter what you bring to shoot, you always wind up with a .22 at the end of the day.
     
  23. mikdav

    mikdav Member

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    Fixed mine! I made a new part to replace the plastice part at the end of the guide rod. I made the part with the ear on the top side a bit longer so that it really pushes the hammer forward. Works great for now. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I made the part from a block of hard plastic I had laying around and used the Dremel and a file. This piece really needs to be made from Aluminum.:)
     
  24. Poor Muttly

    Poor Muttly Member

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    Got the mail, about to chase down the parts. I suppose that I should buy a new spring assembly anyway, so I can see exactly what the plastic gizmo should look like, and duplicate it in metal.

    I'll get a rear sight too, whatever is there, and easily fits.

    The gun is a lot of fun with Stingers and Velocitors, even CB Shorts! I sure would like a 999 as well though, at least a 6".

    Been packing my 4 5/8" SAA .357 lately, and awaiting Cabellas Cavalry twist-draw (LH worn wrong!) open top Mexican loop holster. I find this mode of carry very convenient when I am not carrying a rifle or shotgun, and especially when seated. It is easy to draw without wrenching the elbow and hand far up behind and in the air, but leading the muzzle straight out, though twisting, toward my fangy friend on the ground. It is only a small frame .357, so I expect the first round of shot to stun the critter, and then I'll plug him proper with a real bullet. When I get the hand replaced on my 6" .44, something I am determined to learn to do myself (since it WILL happen again), I'll have a proper tool for the job, the first time.

    Getting the .22 to hit where pointed would be handy too, even though without sights it's a fun reminder that practice is the best sight adjustment tool that there is, and never really goes very far out of adjustment. Jelly knew. Follow the Jelly, Muttly.
     
  25. Poor Muttly

    Poor Muttly Member

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    929 Update

    Hello Muttly. Hello. Hello Squantos. Hello. So how's yer' .22? Well, I installed the metal headed replacement for the broken plastic one, and the gun shoots every round with Stingers, 8 out of 9 with HVHPs. This is great, because Stingers are just the bestest, most wonderfulest .22s there are. I haven't tried my cute little CB Shorts yet. I will soon. They are like shooting a pellet gun. Lots of fun, and useful too.

    Still need me a rear sight blade, but she shoots, and shoots real good, and with no Dremel time needed. Numrich nice. Me like. Me buy more now.
     
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