H&R "Pardner" Pump

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For an apples to apples comparison, how much are GR-equipped 982s vs. 870s?

I find a large aperture peep sight extremely useful, so this is an important consideration for me.

J
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The plain Wison Combat 870 model that Remington offers with GRS is about $699. The Wilson GRS are not as nice as the GRS that comes on the Norinco 982 in my opinion. The 982 sales for $180 on sale at many Big Chain stores.


Given that, it does not MATTER to me how well the Nork's do. In the end, it's simple economics - I can get a lightly used shotgun with a known pedigree and with a plethora of after market support for the same price as a NIB shotgun with an unknown pedigree (shoot 250K rounds thru a Nork and tell me how the receiver looks, and then I may believe that the Nork's receivers are equal or better to an 870). Sell a used Nork down the road and tell me how well it held value, or how quickly it sold
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The 870 has no collectors value and the resale value on them is low. Many find plain used 870 shotguns for what a GRS Norinco 982 cost new.

I believe the Norinco will hold up to anything the 870 will and maybe more.

Why would you need after market support on a shotgun (870) that never breaks. I have been told many times on here that it never has problems other than operator error.

H&R Pardner Pump has excellent support after all it is part of the Remington group. If you buy a Norinco 982 from Davidson's or if your dealer does it will have a lifetime Guarantee.

The 870 shotguns and the Norincos are very easy to work on. That is one thing that makes them so great.


GC
 
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It's been asked a hundred times, and every time it just turns into a CHINA argument. To answer your question, they are a solid gun, that come in good shape right out of the box. I own plenty of Remingtons, but when my dad mentioned he wanted something to have in the closet at his house, this seemed like the perfect solution. At the time I got it for around $180 with the 18.5" barrel on it. Significantly cheaper than you can get a new 870 or 500 with the short barrel. Any of the naysayers on here don't seem to have a real argument against them, other than they don't like the fact that they aren't made in America.
 
Ruger fan, I've been using 870s since the late 50s. Total shell count has to be closing in on 100K. I've swapped bolts, stock, barrels and other parts, which were available and oft inexpensive.

I've used them for everything. Total broken parts has been two firing pin springs.

Come back in a half century and let us know how your clone has held up.

Maybe it will. It's well designed though not by the Chinese.

Meanwhile I know my 870s will just plain freakin' work.....
 
This NEF Pardner / Norinco stuff seems to pop up here regularly. Perhaps not as ubiquitous as "Remington vs. Mossberg" threads but nearly so.

Assuming I've not misread the previous entries I've learned that I personally will likely never have use of one and it has less than nothing to do with where it comes from.

Adaptability: Between here and TFL it appears it's adaptable only within a narrow range. Specifically, a range I have no interest in: it can mutate from "Tactical layout A" to "Tactical layout B" to "Some other Tactical gizmo" and back again. This is great unless the objective is quail or something else that isn't the slightest bit tactical. It's inability to accept a metric pantload of Remington barrels pretty much kills it outside its primary focus.

Depending on how much swappable barrels are to an individual, the Norc may or may not constitute a bargain. Personally, I assign value to the missing features that exceed the difference in cost. Others will, of course, differ.

Some of the Norc's adaptability comes with minor issues - specifically the grinding of a receiver stud. Some feel that such work is a normal part of unboxing a pump but some of us balk at the concept - particularly if we don't own a bench grinder.

Although there's nothing objectively "off" about the practice, I've always been bemused by those that would purchase an 8,000.00 set of wheels for installation on an automobile worth 5,000.00. I react similarly to the observation that a 250.00 Surefire forend and light can be adapted to a 179.00 HD shotgun. While such practices puzzle me there are others that consider them perfectly normal.

The Pardner would appear to do what it does passably well but I don't percieve it to be a bargain. I'd guess it to be worth more or less exactly what it costs. And the competing products seem to be well aligned with their respective purchase prices.
 
There has probably been many arguments similar to this over the past about the "best".

I would guess much of this same argument probably came to be with the 870 when it was introduced and imediate comparisons started between it and the mdl 12 or the mdl 37. And probably some of the same arguments flew back and forth back then about years of service and tens of thousands of rounds fired thru these "proven" designs compared to the new and upstart 870...............

That the 870 has stood the test of time--there is no doubt.
That the chinese are smart enough to realize this is good business on their part.

The question is all in the execution of the final product--not the politics. And this is the info i seek............
 
Hawk
Some of the Norc's adaptability comes with minor issues - specifically the grinding of a receiver stud. Some feel that such work is a normal part of unboxing a pump but some of us balk at the concept - particularly if we don't own a bench grinder.
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With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about. You sound as though you have no experience with these shotguns and you are just adding misinformation you have read from others who have no experience with them.

The receiver stud on the Norinco has to be taken down about 1/16 for a 870 Mesa stock adapter to fit. This doesn't have to be done for any other 870 stocks. Mesa makes their products with very close tolerances. If anyone don't have the know how or don't trust their heavy hand buy a 870 receiver stud screw and install it. They only cost about $5. I am glad the 982 & PP are not exact copies of the 870 and I post why.

This is what I find troubling. The 870 cost twice as much as the Norinco 982 & PP but some of the 870 shotguns have problems with some store bought shells. This is the case on a few WingMaster 870 shotguns also. The chambers have to be self polished with homemade rigs in hopes they will cycle reliably. Some still don't. Many say avoid the ammo the 870 won't cycle. I want my home defense pump shotgun to feed any store bought ammo and 99% of the Norinco 982 and PP will.

870 barrels will fit the 982 & PP but a spacer has to be made to be able to lock it in. I like where the barrel locking lug is located on the Nors and I have post why in this thread. The 982 & PP is a improved version of the 870 design as a tactical shotgun.


Blue Brick Mossberg all the way! $199 for a NIB (BIG 5) field and security combo in Nov 07. And it’s MADE IN THE USA.
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Good choice and deal. The Mossberg 500, 870, Norinco 982 & Pardner Pump all good choices. It just depends on what you are looking for and what you are willing to pay for what you get.

Cerberus- Remington-H&R offers Pardner Pump combo shotguns and camo models as well for a very good price.



GC
 
MAX100 said:
With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about. You sound as though you have no experience with these shotguns and you are just adding misinformation you have read from others who have no experience with them.
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You are correct. I'm repeating something I read posted by someone I thought knew what they were talking about. Clearly I was wrong:

MAX100 said:
Just about every 870 accessory will fit the Pardner Pump some my need a little modifying. You should investigate to see why things won't fit. In your case the pistol grip didn't fit well because the receiver stud on the Pardner Pump is a little longer than the one on a 870. You will need to screw the receiver stud out with wrench and use a grinder to take it down about 1/6". Then the pistol grip or any stock will fit flush with the receiver.
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Perhaps that was the evil MAX100 twin or you feel I misrepresented your remark that grinding was needed?

You reference the Mesa stock and the grinding. Adapting the Mesa stock therefore requires grinding. I didn't say it needed grinding for all stocks although your response in this thread seems to be in response to a pistol grip of indeterminant origin.

If you forgot what you said, or don't claim any particular expertise, fine. I assumed you knew what you were talking about and don't think I added anything - grinding to adapt a Mesa or pistol grip is grinding to adapt. This might be an issue to those of us that don't care to do so.
 
Hawk

Some might say I have a Evil twin at times.

These are "870" accessories made for the 870 shotgun. The 982 & PP is not an 870. Some 870 accessories my need to be modified. I have posted that many times. Sometimes even 870 accessories have to be modified to fit the 870.

As for the guy with the pistol grip. I was just speculating. I don't know for sure if that was the problem unless I looked at it. He can look at it himself and decide if that is the problem. Receiver stud screw is a $5 part and easy to replace if you know how use a wrench.


I make a lot of accessories for guns and have years of experience. Some probably find it strange to use grinders and a milling machine and metal work tools, I don't.


It is really hard to have a discussion on the Nor shotguns when so many know so little about them.

I got tied of listening for years how these shotguns where nothing but Chinese junk. The ones saying it have never owned one and know nothing about them.

Politics should be set aside and firearms should be evaluated on how well they are made and perform in the field, not where they are made.

Like I have stated I have never disrupted threads on the 870 by telling the OP that he should buy a Norinco 982 or Pardner Pump. I try to answer the OP question if I know it.


I could care less if someone buys a 870, Norinco 982, Pardner Pump, Mossberg 500-590, Benelli Nova, Winchester Defender, FN Pump, Browning BPS....ect They are all well made and have their advantages and disadvantages.


GC
 
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I don't understand the "made in the usa" argument some of you guys are blasting us with. I'm all for supporting my country, but what about all of us whom have purchased glock's, xd's, desert eagle's, etc. These guns are all made elsewhere and yet I've never heard anyone spout off about buying american made... Help me out here. I'm not trying to add to the argument, I guess I just don't get it.

Aaron
 
Some might say I have a Evil twin at times.
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:)
Probably parties with my evil twin when we're not watching.

I don't have anything to say on the politics. My firm imports some Chinese stuff - probably not more than 5% of our total but sufficient to place me in a glass house were I to find myself throwing stones.

I should probably refrain from quoting your observations without attribution - the internet, in addition to lacking a "sarcasm" smiley, lacks a "no sarcasm" smiley for when I'm describing the grinding issue as "minor". It's sufficient to put me off a bit but probably wouldn't impact others much.

My personal experience is that the folks making the product we sell are making a living wage, there's a fair amount tied up in ocean freight and the terms are killer - 1/3 cash up front, balance on irrevocable letter of credit. As such, I've noticed that the TANSTAAFL effect is in full force. If something winds up costing half as much, it's proven to be worth half as much - as least in my narrowly focused experience. 'Course our Mrs. Chen gets no subsidies and builds to order - neither may be applicable to North China Industries but this would be speculation on my part.

Without owning one, applying my personal priorities to the thing, based mostly on your descriptions here and at TFL, it strikes me as worth the cost but not a screaming bargain. That's really not a slam on the product.

I'm not calling it Chinese junk - I'm calling it a 179.00 shotgun. This would probably annoy those that believe they've hit a gold mine bargain but some few of us are sufficiently irritated by spacers and even minimal grinding that we'd likely stay clear.

But I'll exercise a degree of care when paraphrasing you in the future.
;)
 
CrazyWella I don't understand the "made in the usa" argument some of you guys are blasting us with. I'm all for supporting my country, but what about all of us whom have purchased glock's, xd's, desert eagle's, etc. These guns are all made elsewhere and yet I've never heard anyone spout off about buying american made... Help me out here. I'm not trying to add to the argument, I guess I just don't get it.

Aaron
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I don't believe you will get an answer or a get a straight answer.


They wouldn't like anyone coping 870, especially the Chinese. They are afraid that the improved Chinese tactical version will take away some of the 870 shotgun popularity.




GC
 
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Personally I prefer to buy ALL American. The only "foreign" gun I own is a Beretta .22 that I inherited so I believe I can speak to this. I know that this topic always turns political but there is an underlying reason why. For me, I see all of this turning on us as Americans very shortly. Not that I am protectionist but we got to take care of our own first! Look around and see what is happening. In my own small community 1400 jobs were just lost this week most likely never to return. All of the jobs we ship overseas will not come back!

Until it happens to you will you turn a blind eye to what is happening here:banghead:. China just happens to be the worst place we can be sending our money. They care not in the slightest about us. Only our money and what happens when we have none left because no one has a job:cuss:
 
I don't understand the "made in the usa" argument some of you guys are blasting us with. I'm all for supporting my country, but what about all of us whom have purchased glock's, xd's, desert eagle's, etc. These guns are all made elsewhere and yet I've never heard anyone spout off about buying american made... Help me out here. I'm not trying to add to the argument, I guess I just don't get it.
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The argument doesn't hold a lot of water for me unless the person making it goes out of his way every day to avoid buying Chinese-made goods. That means no electronics, no shopping at Wal-Mart, almost nothing made out of plastic. :eek:

Otherwise, it's sort of like a meat-eater telling me I shouldn't hunt. I respect the argument a little more when it comes from a dedicated vegan. At least I know that person is willing to put his actions where his mouth is. Not that I'm going to stop hunting anytime soon...

I don't like China's economic policies. I don't like China's human rights policies. But the United States has made its bed with China, and we're going to have to sleep in it for a very long time. Frankly, I don't see ways that the connection is going to be broken anytime soon, and the only way it's going to change is through political activism that directly calls into question the economic alliances we've forged. If everyone stopped buying ALL Chinese made goods, then heads would turn, but the likelihood of that happening are slim and none.

If you think policy makers and/or manufacturers care if you buy an 870 over a Pardner Pump, you're sadly mistaken. It's not even a blip on the radar, especially if you go to Wal-Mart, Bass Pro, or Academy the very next day and buy a fishing rod made in China.

A lot of the ire here comes from loyalty to a company, and there's nothing wrong with that. I want to see Remington stay in business as much as the next guy. I own five 870s, an 1100, and a 700 (rifle in .308). I've done my share of sending money in their direction.
 
Heck, Max, would you sell a shotgun or accessories thereof made by a company owned and operated by Al Queda?

Or the Aryan Resistance?

China's a subcontinent holding 1 of 4 humans now alive. Lots of enterprises there that have nothing to do with the govt.

Norinco's owned and operated by the Chinese military, the muscles behind the human rights violations, the oppression and the evils done in Tibet and elsewhere.

If Al Queda made and marketed a shotgun for a competitive price, would you sell it?
 
I'm curious how many things in people's houses were made in China. With each and every one (and I know there's more than one object), one might ask: did I do my dead-level best to find an American-made alternative?

Garden hose? Probably made in China. Computer? Parts from China. TV? China. Lamps? China. Sporting gear? Lot of Chinese made balls, fishing rods, fishing reels,and other sports accessories out there. The list goes on.

Though folks here are throwing up the China as boogeyman argument (and don't get me wrong... China *is* a boogeyman and one we should be wary of), I still think most of the motivation for these arguments comes back to brand loyalty. Otherwise, if we really believed in and abided by the "Don't buy from China" argument, we'd have to look long and hard to find things in our houses actually made in China.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with brand loyalty. And "Let's help Remington stay in business" might be a better argument IF they didn't already own H&R.

Maybe the argument comes down to model loyalty then. "Let's keep the 870 alive as a model"? Maybe that's it.

Edit: I wonder too why this argument occurs mainly in shotgun forums and not in rifle forums. When someone mentions their new MAK-90 (Norinco made version of the AK-47), folks don't jump on them and cry foul. If Remington made a popular version of the AK-47, it might be different.

No real dog in this hunt. I don't own a Pardner Pump. Went to buy one recently and came home with an 870HD. However, when I really weigh some of the arguments here, they sound a bit hollow in the face of what I suspect are other buying practices that don't involve shotguns.

Why then are shotguns such a flash point? That's a question worth answering.
 
Oh no, the Japanese! Oh wait, we're all afraid of the Chinese now!

MAX, how about a picture of the rear ghost ring sight?
 
kind of reminds me of the old arguments about belgium brownings vs japanese brownings....
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but in those cases Japan and Belgium were allies. China's status is, at best, unknown, and most likely should be labeled as rival, if not enemy.
 
Edit: I wonder too why this argument occurs mainly in shotgun forums and not in rifle forums. When someone mentions their new MAK-90 (Norinco made version of the AK-47), folks don't jump on them and cry foul. If Remington made a popular version of the AK-47, it might be different.
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Interesting question. I think it's because the 870 is such an American classic, so it really strikes a nerve with some people. I remember seeing somebody make the analogy of the Chinese making a Marlin 336 copy and selling it for about $200 new, I thought it was a good comparison. You might see some of the same phenomenon if that was the case.


This issue has been coming up for awhile; ever since Cerebus consolidated the companies in question, that has taken a lot of steam out of most of the arguments.
 
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pardner pump

Well I have the pardner pump in 12 gauge and I love it. Although it is not as nice as a 870 I have been satisfied. It was my first gun that I bought for myself. Most of mine have been handed down from grandfather. I do feel though that it if you could afford the extra 50 bucks go ahead and get the 870. You will get more for your money being able to change barrels chokes ect, plus you will be helping to keep jobs in America. But if the pardner pump is all you can afford I say go for it you will not be dissapointed with its function and dependability. Just stay away from slugs. They kick like a son of a *****, due to lack of weight.
 
I would like to see the GR sight, as well. I really like the one on my 500.

J
 
Here are pictures of the Ghost Ring Sights that are standard on the Norinco 982 shotguns. The pictures were borrowed from another thread.

They are made of quality steel and the machining is good quality. They are thick and very durable. The front sight is also made of steel.

I don't like slot screws so always replace them with socket head Allen screws. The screws that hold the GRS assembly on and the elevation set screw are the same size, metric M4. Most hardware stores carry them. It is good idea to put some loctite that is rated for small screws on the elevation screw when you get it sighted in. Clear nail polish will work also.

The screw in the front middle of the GRS aperture is your elevation set screw. The front left is your windage ajd. screw.


NORGRS-1.jpg


NORGRS-2.jpg


As for the China issue, if I had my say NAFTA & the trade agreement with China would be completely renegotiated in favor of US interest. It is hard to do when we are borrowing 10 billion a month from China to pay for the War. We are in debt with other nations as well.


GC
 
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