H110 is the Devil! & I’m so Stupid. Flame cutting my 629 5” pre-lock.

[Mark_Mark]

Yeah, back up for a minute there. I agree at first glance that looks pretty gnarly.

As noted, 21 gr. of H110 isn't even a starting load. My Lyman 50th ed. says a 245 gr. lead gas checked bullet can be loaded from 24.0 to 25.0 gr. of H110. That should produce around 35,300 CUP. Max standard pressure for .44 Mag is reportedly 40,000 CUP or 36,000 PSI. You're not going to be anywhere close to a +P load. The only issue you will have from that is going to be potentially inconsistent ignition, maybe.

What bullets are you shooting? What type of coating? Do you have any more of them?

Go smash one in a vice. Or smack it with a hammer. What does the coating look like? Is it still sticking to the bullet, or is it flaking off?

Take a look at the second bullet from the left in the picture below. That was from a commercial bullet maker using Hi-Tec coating. They apparently hadn't figured out the application process, as I'd had failures like this from them in multiple bullet types and weights. What you want to see is like the bullet on the far left, where the coating remains completely adhered, even though the bullet has been deformed.

And here is what the failed coating will do in a new barrel. And yes, it was extremely difficult to scrub off.

I'm interested to see if the "damage" you see on the forcing cone is actually just an accumulation of failed coating material. It does appear that there has been some flame cutting of the top strap, but again this could mostly be coating.

Let me do a squash test with my vice. My brother made me the bullets, powder coated and baked style.

but hold one. I’m about to squeeze a bullet

 

[fxvr5]

Mark, see if you can scrape some of the crud off the top strap with a sharp knife and get back to us.

 

[243winxb]

My 29-2, barrel was set back by Smith & Wesson, 2 years ago. Used W296-23grs & 250 gr cast lswc, for many years.
Really needed a new barrel, but this original one is Mag-Na-Ported. Some erosion still remains.

Looks & shoots poorly now. Plus leading. Barrel is cleaned.

 

[.38 Special]

I prefer 23 grains. If the lead buildup on the topstrap bothers me, I scrape it off with a small screwdriver.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Tried a screw driver, nothing coming out, will try a sharp knife next. But it’s flame cutting… look at the photo. the cutting is outside the frame .

 

[Mark_Mark]

Yeah, back up for a minute there. I agree at first glance that looks pretty gnarly.

As noted, 21 gr. of H110 isn't even a starting load. My Lyman 50th ed. says a 245 gr. lead gas checked bullet can be loaded from 24.0 to 25.0 gr. of H110. That should produce around 35,300 CUP. Max standard pressure for .44 Mag is reportedly 40,000 CUP or 36,000 PSI. You're not going to be anywhere close to a +P load. The only issue you will have from that is going to be potentially inconsistent ignition, maybe.

What bullets are you shooting? What type of coating? Do you have any more of them?

Go smash one in a vice. Or smack it with a hammer. What does the coating look like? Is it still sticking to the bullet, or is it flaking off?

Take a look at the second bullet from the left in the picture below. That was from a commercial bullet maker using Hi-Tec coating. They apparently hadn't figured out the application process, as I'd had failures like this from them in multiple bullet types and weights. What you want to see is like the bullet on the far left, where the coating remains completely adhered, even though the bullet has been deformed.

And here is what the failed coating will do in a new barrel. And yes, it was extremely difficult to scrub off.

I'm interested to see if the "damage" you see on the forcing cone is actually just an accumulation of failed coating material. It does appear that there has been some flame cutting of the top strap, but again this could mostly be coating.

here the Crush test with my vice. Coating is intact after crushing

I just think the gun is a .44 Special only gun NOW oooh well, excuse to buy another, more modern .44 mag 5” … Used ones with the Lock goes for CHEAP here!

 

[Mark_Mark]

My 29-2 barrel was set back by Smith & Wesson, 2 years ago. Used W296-23grs & 250 gr cast lswc, for many years.
Really needed a new barrel, but this original one is Mag-Na-Ported. Some erosion still remains.

Looks & shoots poorly now. Plus leading. Barrel is cleaned.

that looks just like my cone

 

[ColtPythonElite]

A Lewis Lead Remover will clean that lead right off the forcing cone. Every lead revolver shooter needs one.

 

[Boom Vang]

Thank God I bought one of those terrible "lock hole" and MIM models with the latest frame/barrel and cylinder metallurgy. No flame cutting and minimal erosion.

PS. It's been fired with plenty of full-bore Lil'Gun handloads too

 

[Mark_Mark]

Thank God I bought one of those terrible "lock hole" and MIM models with the latest frame/barrel and cylinder metallurgy. No flame cutting and minimal erosion.

PS. It's been fired with plenty of full-bore Lil'Gun handloads too

View attachment 1260150

View attachment 1260151

oooh heck yeah! Do S&W warranty New guns if you use hand-loads?

That Lock is Ugly but if it can handle full house loads with flame cutting! will be worth it. Nothing like a GAINT flame with hot .44 mags to put a smile on my face and clear my head!

 

[longdayjake]

I think that flame cutting won't look nearly so bad after you scrub the fouling off.

It's not ruined. . . it's used.

Well, you ruined my chance. I was gonna offer him like $100 for his ruined gun.

 

[shoebox1.1]

oooh heck yeah! Do S&W warranty New guns if you use hand-loads?

That Lock is Ugly but if it can handle full house loads with flame cutting! will be worth it. Nothing like a GAINT flame with hot .44 mags to put a smile on my face and clear my head!

I believe they will not warranty anything if they suspect handloads. Yall have me very concerned about H110 and my brand new model 27 that should be here tomorrow or Monday. I promised myself it will only be fed handload 357 ammunition nothing else!

 

[Mark_Mark]

they got this one for $1050-ish. was marked down at my local shop! Would make a nice replacement, but that wood grip will hurt with full house .44

 

[Mark_Mark]

I believe they will not warranty anything if they suspect handloads. Yall have me very concerned about H110 and my brand new model 27 that should be here tomorrow or Monday. I promised myself it will only be fed handload 357 ammunition nothing else!

I’m literally going thur all my magnum gun looking for flame cutting

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Calling it ruined might be a wee bit dramatic, aye? I'm fairly confident I put around 15,000 rounds through my 629-1 (or maybe it was a no-dash) and it saw a lot more than 50 rounds of HOT .44 Magnum ammo. Memory says one of my favorite accuracy loads was 24.0 grains of W296 under a 240 grain Hornady XTP lit off by a Winchester LP primer.



My understanding is "flame cutting" is more "bead blasting under high heat and pressure from combustion." It has something to do with the fine grain particles abrading the metal boosted by the hot gasses. On the bright side, it generally only gets so far and then increasing damage tends to taper off. Some powders are more prone to it than others. Oddly enough, I almost wonder if incomplete combustion could be as big of a contributing factor as using "hot" loads. Turning less of the fine grains of powder into gas at ignition would definitely provide more media for the cutting process.

I think this is the answer.

In the Lawman, I think the problem was the light weight bullets (110 and 125gr) and loose necks with over rolled crimping. The W296 didn’t have a chance to get started in the case so it burned in the chamber/throat.

Like I say, though, that Lawman is still a good gun and has taken many, many hogs, deer, raccoons, snakes… I’m not in a hurry to get rid of it.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I think this is the answer.

In the Lawman, I think the problem was the light weight bullets (110 and 125gr) and loose necks with over rolled crimping. The W296 didn’t have a chance to get started in the case so it burned in the chamber/throat.

Like I say, though, that Lawman is still a good gun and has taken many, many hogs, deer, raccoons, snakes… I’m not in a hurry to get rid of it.

4100 for mag loads, here I come! I’m loading it down to .44 Special power!

.44 Special plenty of power to out snakes and fat Seattle Coons! Don’t know what they eat here but they are fat as everything and are out very late at night cause all kinds of trouble

 

[Boom Vang]

Nearly any serious shooter that fires any reasonable volume of .44 Magnum, does so with handloads. The S&W written warranty does not exclude handloads, only "improper ammunition". But if you send them a gun with a blown cylinder, or a firearm damaged from an undetected squib, and it was done with handloads, you can bet they will find the ammunition at fault.

I also have a very nice Model 29-2 with 8-3/8" barrel. It rests comfortably in the safe. Shooting guns that are no longer supported at the factory, you're on you own for repairs.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Nearly any serious shooter that fires any reasonable volume of .44 Magnum, does so with handloads. The S&W written warranty does not exclude handloads, only "improper ammunition". But if you send them a gun with a blown cylinder, or a firearm damaged from an undetected squib, and it was done with handloads, you can bet they will find the ammunition at fault.

I also have a very nice Model 29-2 with 8-3/8" barrel. It rests comfortably in the safe. Shooting guns that are no longer supported at the factory, you're on you own for repairs.

I’m going to call S&W Monday and see what they say! all they can say is no

 

[GooseGestapo]

I’m so Stupid. I shoot 50 +P+ Hottt loads out my 629 5” and I destroyed it!

H110 is to HOT —— WARNING!

H110 - 21 Grain
240gn Coated bullets
LPM primers

View attachment 1260093View attachment 1260094

NOT DESTROYED !
Just broken in! Give it a good cleaning and CHUTE IT!
You. can’t hurt it anymore.

But, I’ll give you 40% of list price if you can’t stand to look at it….
All my guns are “shooters”, not collectors items…

 

[Mark_Mark]

NOT DESTROYED !
Just broken in! Give it a good cleaning and CHUTE IT!
You. can’t hurt it anymore.

But, I’ll give you 40% of list price if you can’t stand to look at it….
All my guns are “shooters”, not collectors items…

Alright! I did shoot some light 16 grain H110 yesterday, same 240 coated bullet! had a nice pop to it!

I only paid $550 or $599 for it

 

[Laphroaig]

I’m literally going thur all my magnum gun looking for flame cutting

I just pulled out my Security Six and was checking it out. Not nearly as bad as yours. I used Blue Dot for much of it's life though.

You have to pay if you want to play. I bore scoped my 25-06 a while back and was dismayed. Heat cracking was visible more than 6" down the barrel from the throat, only something like 600 rounds down the tube. The last time I shot it it didn't perform like usual. Now I know why.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I just pulled out my Security Six and was checking it out. Not nearly as bad as yours. I used Blue Dot for much of it's life though.

You have to pay if you want to play. I bore scoped my 25-06 a while back and was dismayed. Heat cracking was visible more than 6" down the barrel from the throat, only something like 600 rounds down the tube. The last time I shot it it didn't perform like usual. Now I know why.

So true! Pay to Play

 

[243winxb]

look at the photo. the cutting is outside the frame .

Not normal.

I have to wonder if the bullets coating is to blame? Abrasive?

I have only shot cast with no coatings. My top strap looks a lot better after 1000s of rounds.

Is this the base of the bullets??

 

[Boom Vang]

Here's my fantastic Ruger Security-Six that I cut my eye teeth on in the 1980s. I was also a disciple of the Blue Dot. Many thousands of magnum (and .38 Special) rounds through the revolver. It had to ship it back to Ruger to fix endshake and timing after 4000 rounds - so much for the "indestructible Ruger" myths.

At any rate... minimal erosion, no flame cutting.

 

[Boom Vang]

I just re-read the OPs posts.

It can't be overstated that H110/Win 296 have explicit warnings about using "reduced loads" from what is specifically published by Hodgdon. These propellants are very capable and produce very high velocity and excellent accuracy when used as directed.

In reduced loads, they are known to cause unpredictable and contradictory results, including pressure spikes, "blooper loads", and extreme erosion, due to inconsistent ignition and burning. In addition to minimum and maximum charge weights, H110/Win 296 (they are identical formulas) require a magnum primer.

Reloading is a safe enjoyable hobby when conducted with care, attention to detail, and due diligence. Be safe.