H4350 vs StaBall 6.5

[OFFGRID]

Ive been loading 3006 and 243 since 2023 and havent had much luck with the H4350. I got a "so so" load for 165 flat base interlock in the 06 that shoot 1.25 moa and i reckon thats ok for a 80s rem 700 hunting rifle, but i havent been able to find a load for the 243 (70s model 700) with h4350. It seems to hate the powder. 1.25 and 1.5 was the best i could get with the 243 and that rifle shoots darn near everything tight!

Before i could find H4350 i found staball 6.5. I have a few loads with it for both rifles and i like that it meters well AND claims higher velocity..... but for me it seems to be more accurate. All of the loads are sub moa but the bees knees is a 180 grain hotcor load for the 06 with 57 grains (max is 57.2) of staball 6.5 in hornady brass. It was less than .75"! One of my personal best with that rifle. I have a couple decent loads for the 243 as well, one is 70 grain hp with staball 6.5 that shoot pretty good and, according to the load data, should be moving extremely quick.

Honestly i feel kind of disappointed. All this time Ive been looking forward to finding 4350 in the local stores because the more experienced guys talk like its the best thing since rifled barrels. Maybe im using the wrong 4350?

I think im going to try out more of the newer stuff that is just sitting on shelves.

 

[AJC1]

Ive been loading 3006 and 243 since 2023 and havent had much luck with the H4350. I got a "so so" load for 165 flat base interlock in the 06 that shoot 1.25 moa and i reckon thats ok for a 80s rem 700 hunting rifle, but i havent been able to find a load for the 243 (70s model 700) with h4350. It seems to hate the powder. 1.25 and 1.5 was the best i could get with the 243 and that rifle shoots darn near everything tight!

Before i could find H4350 i found staball 6.5. I have a few loads with it for both rifles and i like that it meters well AND claims higher velocity..... but for me it seems to be more accurate. All of the loads are sub moa but the bees knees is a 180 grain hotcor load for the 06 with 57 grains (max is 57.2) of staball 6.5 in hornady brass. It was less than .75"! One of my personal best with that rifle. I have a couple decent loads for the 243 as well, one is 70 grain hp with staball 6.5 that shoot pretty good and, according to the load data, should be moving extremely quick.

Honestly i feel kind of disappointed. All this time Ive been looking forward to finding 4350 in the local stores because the more experienced guys talk like its the best thing since rifled barrels. Maybe im using the wrong 4350?

I think im going to try out more of the newer stuff that is just sitting on shelves.

I have a pound of n150 I haven't loaded yet, a pound might be worth a try.... the 500 series has nitro if you need speed.

 

[OFFGRID]

I have a pound of n150 I haven't loaded yet, a pound might be worth a try.... the 500 series has nitro if you need speed.

i havent tried any of those vivatori? powders yet. id habe to check data and write the stuff down. n550, n155, etc its all the same to me.

 

[OFFGRID]

On the same subject. Ive heard nothin but bragging about varget. problem is its never on a shelf. everyone grabs it as fast as it gets stocked. There was a guy at the local shop bragging on it an said he had 40lbs of it and it shoots so well. ai told him he can keep it, i got 4064. LMOA!

 

[OFFGRID]

i think i may order some ramshot powders. never ordered powder before but it may be worth it to try it out if i get a few pounds.....and its cheap. im thinking Big Game and Hunter is worth a shot.

 

[2ndtimer]

i think i may order some ramshot powders. never ordered powder before but it may be worth it to try it out if i get a few pounds.....and its cheap. im thinking Big Game and Hunter is worth a shot.

In my experience, Big Game is excellent with 70 gr bullets (Speer TNT and Nosler Tipped Varmageddon). Hunter is better with heavier bullets.
For the ‘06, either Big Game or Hunter for 150 and 165 gr bullets, lean towards Hunter for 180 grain.

 

[Charlie98]

I think im going to try out more of the newer stuff that is just sitting on shelves.

Honestly, I've been largely disappointed in the newer powders. I tried IMR4451, one of the 'new' Enduron powders, in the 6.5CM (vs H4350, which was Unobtanium at the time...) and I was disappointed with the results. Ultimately, the Enduron line was discontinued by Hodgdon, along with IMR's 'color' pistol powders. In my limited testing, I've not found many of the newer, reformulated powders... for example, W231 vs W244, SportPistol, BE-86... to be any better, or in some cases, even the equal... of some of the older powders. But, at the end of the day, how your firearm performs with your handload dictates.

I will say I've had good luck with some of the alternate powders. With the cost of the mainstream powders... IMR, Alliant, some Hodgdon... I've picked up a few alternate powders that have worked well. TAC is one of those. Although it did not turn out to be the do-all powder I wanted it to be, it has performed very well in a limited use case (5.56mm and 7.62mm blasting ammo) at a better cost... so I consider that a win. I plan on trying VV N140... as a replacement to the sometimes Unobtanium, and, now, expensive IMR4064. I've also used some of the Accurate pistol powders; while their performance has been pretty good, they don't apply as broadly as some of the powders I've used in the past.

 

[horsey300]

Ive been loading 3006 and 243 since 2023 and havent had much luck with the H4350. I got a "so so" load for 165 flat base interlock in the 06 that shoot 1.25 moa and i reckon thats ok for a 80s rem 700 hunting rifle, but i havent been able to find a load for the 243 (70s model 700) with h4350. It seems to hate the powder. 1.25 and 1.5 was the best i could get with the 243 and that rifle shoots darn near everything tight!

Before i could find H4350 i found staball 6.5. I have a few loads with it for both rifles and i like that it meters well AND claims higher velocity..... but for me it seems to be more accurate. All of the loads are sub moa but the bees knees is a 180 grain hotcor load for the 06 with 57 grains (max is 57.2) of staball 6.5 in hornady brass. It was less than .75"! One of my personal best with that rifle. I have a couple decent loads for the 243 as well, one is 70 grain hp with staball 6.5 that shoot pretty good and, according to the load data, should be moving extremely quick.

Honestly i feel kind of disappointed. All this time Ive been looking forward to finding 4350 in the local stores because the more experienced guys talk like its the best thing since rifled barrels. Maybe im using the wrong 4350?

I think im going to try out more of the newer stuff that is just sitting on shelves.

4350 is something i don't open until my bullets weigh 90 gr or more, 4064 burn rates tickle my fancy better in the 55-85 gr weights. Faster powders have always just worked better for me in the sub 85s, I did get good results with h380 and h4381 in the 85, but wound up preferring the 4064 over either of them. I have staball 6.5 on hand that I've dabbled with for other rifles but like what I have for the .243 currently enough not to waste primers working it up....in the future what ifs? Who knows? But I'd definitely save the 4350 for the heavier weights.

 

[Walkalong]

StaBall 6.5 did not wow me, either with accuracy or small ES/SD numbers, so my 1 Lb sits idly by.

 

[AJC1]

i think i may order some ramshot powders. never ordered powder before but it may be worth it to try it out if i get a few pounds.....and its cheap. im thinking Big Game and Hunter is worth a shot.

Hunter has done nothing but disappoint me. I love ramshot and I'll recommend tac and Silhouette to anyone that will listen. My dad loaded hunter in 30-30, 7.7 and 6.5x55. Not a good round in the batch. Maybe higher pressure might help but it didn't perform for my mentee in 30-06 either. I was going to gift him all I had left but aa-4064 outperformed it in every test....

 

[Varminterror]

Shooting H4350 is like dating the beautiful, fit, self-possessed brunette with a college degree, her own career & wealth, zero debt, great talents in the kitchen...

Shooting Staball is more like dating the redhead with a low back tattoo, who is still driving her ex boyfriend's car since he's in jail for selling drugs out of the local pizza shop where he was the delivery boy, and who lives on her friend's couch...

Being the most stable ball powder on the market doesn't mean it can hang with temp-stable extruded powders.

 

[OFFGRID]

Shooting H4350 is like dating the beautiful, fit, self-possessed brunette with a college degree, her own career & wealth, zero debt, great talents in the kitchen...

Shooting Staball is more like dating the redhead with a low back tattoo, who is still driving her ex boyfriend's car since he's in jail for selling drugs out of the local pizza shop where he was the delivery boy, and who lives on her friend's couch...

Being the most stable ball powder on the market doesn't mean it can hang with temp-stable extruded powders.

i get it, but the accuracy is trash.




and ill take the redhead for a weekend!

 

[OFFGRID]

4350 is something i don't open until my bullets weigh 90 gr or more, 4064 burn rates tickle my fancy better in the 55-85 gr weights. Faster powders have always just worked better for me in the sub 85s, I did get good results with h380 and h4381 in the 85, but wound up preferring the 4064 over either of them. I have staball 6.5 on hand that I've dabbled with for other rifles but like what I have for the .243 currently enough not to waste primers working it up....in the future what ifs? Who knows? But I'd definitely save the 4350 for the heavier weights.

i might try some 4064.

 

[irishlad]

StaBall 6.5 did not wow me, either with accuracy or small ES/SD numbers, so my 1 Lb sits idly by.

Shot dirty for me in my 6.5 CM. 1/2lb became fertilizer.

Being the most stable ball powder on the market doesn't mean it can hang with temp-stable extruded powders.

This^^^ The load I worked up in the spring had a very hard bolt in the summer. H4350 no problems.

 

[Jerry M]

Have you tried the 180 bullets with H4350 in the.30-06?

 

[2ndtimer]

Being the most stable ball powder on the market doesn't mean it can hang with temp-stable extruded powders.

Kind of like being the nicest inmate in a super max prison. A lesson I learned when testing Ramshot TAC and X-Terminator versus Benchmark at 30 degrees F. The ball powders just couldn’t hang with the extruded at lower temps velocity or consistency. Accuracy was close, but the lowest charge of Benchmark was over 200 fps faster than the highest charge with the ball powders. Still like the ball powders for volume loading when temperatures are warm enough.

 

[OFFGRID]

Have you tried the 180 bullets with H4350 in the.30-06?

no but the data looks good.
i have two loads with staball 6.5 so far. 180 hotcor and 178 eldx. the hotcor seem to shoot a little tighter at 100 yards but im sure thats probably just because they are flat base.

 

[OFFGRID]

i think my real issue here is availability and reputation. these powders are supposed to be the absolute best....so i keep hearing. But usually i cant find any so i work up loads with what i can find locally like staball and blc2.....then i finally find the stuff and its just ok.

kinda disappointing when everyone talks like they will make any gun fire like a lazer and then they buy it all up as soon as it hits a shelf.

Im also not so sure the Hodgdon "extreme" powders are any better than imr. im still a newb but my tightest load tests to date in 06 were loaded with imr 4895, imr 4064 and of coarse the stayball 6.5. Like i said i have passable loads in 06 with 165 over h4350, but i also have a minute of whitetail load with blc2. LOL. I only load and shoot in the fall and winter so i dont see an issue with temp stability.

Anyway im not a fan of the 4350 yet and have never seen varget or h4895 in person. i might switch to imr 4350 powder, heck theres a couple pounds of imr 4350 on the shelf at the local shop. i may just go buy it and give that a shot after i get done trying this imr 3031 in the 06 and 308.

 

[AJC1]

i think my real issue here is availability and reputation. these powders are supposed to be the absolute best....so i keep hearing. But usually i cant find any so i work up loads with what i can find locally like staball and blc2.....then i finally find the stuff and its just ok.

kinda disappointing when everyone talks like they will make any gun fire like a lazer and then they buy it all up as soon as it hits a shelf.

Im also not so sure the Hodgdon "extreme" powders are any better than imr. im still a newb but my tightest load tests to date in 06 were loaded with imr 4895, imr 4064 and of coarse the stayball 6.5. Like i said i have passable loads in 06 with 165 over h4350, but i also have a minute of whitetail load with blc2. LOL. I only load and shoot in the fall and winter so i dont see an issue with temp stability.

Anyway im not a fan of the 4350 yet and have never seen varget or h4895 in person. i might switch to imr 4350 powder, heck theres a couple pounds of imr 4350 on the shelf at the local shop. i may just go buy it and give that a shot after i get done trying this imr 3031 in the 06 and 308.

I've also never seen h4895 and like imr versions just fine as you have observed.

 

[Varminterror]

What’s your neck tension? Interlocks aren’t a particularly good bullet, so getting 1.25moa from a factory rifle may not be terrible. H4350 in either of these with heavy bullets at a high fill ratio is a stupid reliable burn, but we have to give the powder the right initial resistance to promote consistent primary ignition.

 

[AJC1]

What’s your neck tension? Interlocks aren’t a particularly good bullet, so getting 1.25moa from a factory rifle may not be terrible. H4350 in either of these with heavy bullets at a high fill ratio is a stupid reliable burn, but we have to give the powder the right initial resistance to promote consistent primary ignition.

Have you done or seen any testing to see if ball powders do better with more neck tension? I don't run Manny but I have tac and some h335. I do run them higher neck tension in ar platforms.

 

[OFFGRID]

What’s your neck tension? Interlocks aren’t a particularly good bullet, so getting 1.25moa from a factory rifle may not be terrible. H4350 in either of these with heavy bullets at a high fill ratio is a stupid reliable burn, but we have to give the powder the right initial resistance to promote consistent primary ignition.

Oh man idk what the tension is. Whatever the lee dies set it at. Im still a novice compared to most of you all.....but they all have been sized the same. And this is gonna sound wierd, but alot of the time I find my best groups are on the lower end of the ladder test with extruded powders. i have a bunch of 200 grain hotcor loaded not much over min charge with h4831 because thats where they grouped well. They work, I took my last buck with one. He never knew it only had a 2300ish fps muzzle velocity. Anyway it seems disperson increases with charge weight sometimes. The 165s with 4350 were like this too. i think my best group was a grain or 2 over min and second best was about a grain under max if i recal. id have to check my records for exact weights and group sizes.

Yeah im not griping about 1.25 or even 1.5 moa in an old 06 with who knows how many rounds on it. But sub moa with cheap 180s and a ball powder that nobody likes is pretty cool!

I still have about a lb of h4350. i may try it with some 180 grain bullets in the 06 and maybe 95s in the 243. But so far there are more "keeper" loads in my log with the staball than the 4350.

i might also try a different bullet. I run alot of hornady and speer. I might actually like the speer better. But anyway Im open to sierra, I just dont like the price. Like, are they really that much better? haha. Or maybe finally try out some ttsx. monos are all the rage on utune it seems. They really get good penetration.

 

[AJC1]

Oh man idk what the tension is. Whatever the lee dies set it at. Im still a novice compared to most of you all.....but they all have been sized the same. And this is gonna sound wierd, but alot of the time I find my best groups are on the lower end of the ladder test with extruded powders. i have a bunch of 200 grain hotcor loaded not much over min charge with h4831 because thats where they grouped well. They work, I took my last buck with one. He never knew it only had a 2300ish fps muzzle velocity. Anyway it seems disperson increases with charge weight sometimes. The 165s with 4350 were like this too. i think my best group was a grain or 2 over min and second best was about a grain under max if i recal. id have to check my records for exact weights and group sizes.

Yeah im not griping about 1.25 or even 1.5 moa in an old 06 with who knows how many rounds on it. But sub moa with cheap 180s and a ball powder that nobody likes is pretty cool!

I still have about a lb of h4350. i may try it with some 180 grain bullets in the 06 and maybe 95s in the 243. But so far there are more "keeper" loads in my log with the staball than the 4350.

i might also try a different bullet. I run alot of hornady and speer. I might actually like the speer better. But anyway Im open to sierra, I just dont like the price. Like, are they really that much better? haha. Or maybe finally try out some ttsx. monos are all the rage on utune it seems. They really get good penetration.

The low end with heavies and the top end with lights. Imr 4064 is a great example of this. I don't load hot with 4895.... 44.4 with a 150 is plenty...

 

[OFFGRID]

The low end with heavies and the top end with lights. Imr 4064 is a great example of this. I don't load hot with 4895.... 44.4 with a 150 is plenty...

i found some old 150 sierra spitzers tucked away that i must have gotten second hand. Im about to try it with the 3031....for science and stuff. There are 3 more lbs of it at the store marked $40 each. If it goes well im gonna get them all

 

[AJC1]

i found some old 150 sierra spitzers tucked away that i must have gotten second hand. Im about to try it with the 3031....for science and stuff. There are 3 more lbs of it at the store marked $40 each. If it goes well im gonna get them all

I've not had the pleasure of loading 30-31 so I have no specifics to offer. I've shot a lot of that bullet though so if you have other plans ready to help. That price is a steal btw