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Had to draw my weapon last night...

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by GhostRider66, Mar 6, 2009.

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  1. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Man, that's a real condition white, bliss-ninny attitude! I hope you don't end up being somebody's victim.

    GR66 did good!
     
  2. Ironjarhead

    Ironjarhead Member

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    You have a laptop, probably a cell phone, or even better a blackberry. You probably have on a watch or some other jewelry. You parked a little further out than the other patrons. He probably saw you as a quick $500 at the local pawn shop. Good call
     
  3. cerberus65

    cerberus65 Member

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    15' is really close. I can see how you might not have had enough time to get you and your stuff in and get locked. In the end, you were the only one of us there. Glad you made it home safely.
     
  4. Mascoma

    Mascoma Member

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    GhostRider66, Way to go being alert, if not you could have been a GHOSTRIDER...
    Go Army...
     
  5. wyk

    wyk Member

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    Glad to hear you made it out safe. I think you would have become a victim had you not been alert and carrying.
     
  6. Gypsy Pilot

    Gypsy Pilot Member

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    Well played sir. I would hope that most CCW'ers would react similar to you in that situation. Whether the BG saw the weapon or not, you had it ready if needed and if he did see it, it's presence is certainly enough deterent for a petty thief (we hope).
    Good discussion on this. Helps game the scenarios in a non-critical environment and remind us of why we carry.

    GP
     
  7. LT1coupe

    LT1coupe Member

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    I think you did good. It sure sounds like you were being interviewed.

    The main thing you did right was being aware of your surroundings.
     
  8. squinty

    squinty Member

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    you'll never know

    I've gotten in trouble a few times by ignoring or second guessing my instincts. I won't ever again. That probably means I've erred in the other direction by being rude to someone who only looked shady, when their intent was innocuous. I'm ok with that. I'll continue to err on the side of rudeness.

    If the couple in the store were not up to something untoward, I wonder if they called the police to report someone brandishing a firearm? Of course, a thwarted criminal might do the same thing.
    So how close do you let someone get before drawing a gun? Wait until you're dead certain, that might not be until they're on top of you. But try to be proactive and you may have a hard time explaining, after the fact, why you drew your weapon.
     
  9. manthegun

    manthegun Member

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    All in all, there are many possibilities, but in my estimation, you took exactly the right course by preparing yourself without going overboard or being too menacing.

    He should have known his actions might seem suspicious, so I don't think he was "asking for directions" or a bottle of booze. Judging from your description of the situation, you acted right on
    by simply preparing yourself for the very probable negative encounter.
     
  10. KevinAbbeyTech

    KevinAbbeyTech Member

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    Or course they won't be CC's or even gun owners, that would be like knowing who OJ is! lol.
     
  11. rrruuunnn

    rrruuunnn Member

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    Had similar incident:
    I was at my restaurant late 1:00 am. Don't ask why. So I'm leaving to my car. But I decide to throw away some cups. I see a big guy and girl walking on the sidewalk. I walk towards the dumpster on the other side of the restaurant. I hear the guy say, "come here." So I think he is talking to his girl. I walk behind the restaurant and throw away my cups. I start heading back to my car. Now, I'm a bit worried because I should see them on the sidewalk already. So the guy must have walked towards me possible in front of the restaurant. I walk towards my car. By the time I make it to my car, I see the man is at the front corner of the restaurant looking at me and he quickly turns and walks away. As I drive away, I see him look at me. I never put my hand on my weapon, but I my heart rate increased.
     
  12. lawboy

    lawboy Member

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    "It all happened incredibly fast and I was pretty much on auto-pilot."

    Just a reminder that we are never on auto pilot. We are always thinking and rationally making decisions in response to the developing threat. Even though things are happening quickly, we are perceiving, and responding after making appropriate decisions. I know you did not really mean auto pilot because your narrative clearly shows that you observed, assessed and made conscious decisions in response to a developing threat. I am just reminding us all that in a deposition or in a trial, if you admit to "auto pilot" a good lawyer will hang you because you have now given him license to make up the motivation for your actions and to characterize them as excessive because you have just admitted that you were not thinking, assessing and perceiving the threat and then deciding on an appropriate response that you can explain to the jury vis a vis the threat.
     
  13. KBT1911

    KBT1911 Member

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    The dumbest thing you could have done was convince yourself nothing was happening and then act like it.

    Whether it was a set up (sounds like it) or not, you did the right thing, in my opinion.

    If the dude hadn't been checking you out, he never would have noticed you or the gun.
     
  14. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    No way to tell what you broke up since he was coming at you outside of the store while she was inside. The bottom line is that you will be shopping at Majestic Liquor from now on.
     
  15. thesolidus

    thesolidus Member

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    Always be the first to call PD.

    That said, I would only report that I yelled "Halt" and the suspect left the scene. Don't add that you were armed. If they wanted to charge YOU for 'brandishing" or some nonsense they will either have video of you, or not. If not, then let your lawyer state that you made 'a defensive action' that may or may not be related to the presence of a firearm (which you may or may not have had.)

    Maybe i'm paranoid living in Cali, but I wouldn't add anything that might incriminate me later. Still would call the PD though.
     
  16. Rellian

    Rellian Member

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    to his wallet, and his laptop, and his rum...etc;
     
  17. Pack

    Pack Member

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    Great story - and thread. Thank you for sharing! I've never been in a similar situation (or was aloof to the fact that I may have been), but what you did sounds like 1) you were well within your rights, and 2) what I hope my reactions/responses might be, if ever facing the same.

    You've got all your limbs, all your stuff, and, upon returning home, you didn't have to answer that most dreadful of questions: "But why is the rum gone?"
     
  18. Kentucky Kernel

    Kentucky Kernel Member

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    I learn a lot from THR and this post has been very informational and has given me another parameter to add my "situational awarness list" of things to look out for.

    The thought that two seemingly unrelated individuals can use their cell phones to coordinate an attack is very eye-opening. You know, cell phones are so ubiquitous that I never give it a second thought when I see folks chatting on their phones. But now, if I notice two people who are both in unusual situations, in close proxmity, both talking on cells, I will pay closer attention to their actions.

    Thanks, folks.

    KK
     
  19. lanternlad1

    lanternlad1 Member

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    Sounds like you did good. Things can sneak up on you fast. I was once at a Sonic and had just ordered my food when a guy came right up to my window and started to offer to sell me drugs. I had my left hand ready to grapple with him and my right on a .357 mag under a newspaper on the passenger side. I told him "no", politely, and he tried to do a hard sell, then he glanced over and saw my hand on the butt of the gun. It was like time stopped for him, you could see it in his eyes. He thanked me, then went on his way.

    A friend of mine who is a cop told me that a lot of carjackings/kidnappings happen this way. While he has you distracted, a buddy comes up on the other side and ambushes you. I didn't see an accomplice, but you never know.
     
  20. wheelgunslinger

    wheelgunslinger Member

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    Or a single action.
     
  21. Sapper771

    Sapper771 Member

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    Good Job ! Excellent situational awareness.
    I would have done the same thing if I were in the situation. The deal with them in the same store and talking to each other on the phone is a good indicator that they were into something. It sounds like they were casing the place. They had someone on the inside feeding real-time info to the guy on the outside.
    If it was not a soon to be incident, the actions of the male/female would have warranted your response anyway.....too suspicious.
    Usually people dont go to liquor store to window shop or mill around, they are there to get what they normally get and hit the road.
    As far as calling the police, you could , they could gather the info that you had, and maybe get the video tape to see if they could tie the male/female team to another incident or maybe identify them and notify the patrol division to BOLO for them and possible future activity.

    Glad your ok, it could have went downhill quick.

    I had a situation one time when I first got my carry permit. I was at Target in Knoxville. I was walking out to my car and I noticed a man standing next to a van several stalls down from my car. There was a woman in the van and she was yelling at the man. I paused for a moment and then unlocked my car and got in. As I started my car, I looked out the rear glass of my car and I noticed the same man walking around my car. He stopped at the back and looked in the rear glass of my car. At this point, I drew my 1911. The man came around the driver's side of my car, as he did this he was reaching into the interior part of his jacket, as if one would have a shoulder holster on. I brought my 1911 up to my chest and angled the muzzle toward my window and I rolled down my window. I lost sight of the man til he got to my window. The man reached out with a white card, then he looked down and seen what I had in my hand. His eyes got real big . The man was posing as a deaf person and was pan handling for money. I told him that he had better go somewhere else because it was not safe for him here. The man just looked at me with his hands raised and said " I am sorry buddy, I dont want any trouble". The guy then left , at a high rate of speed.

    Situational awareness pays off.....even if the situation doesnt turn out to be what it seems, better safe than six feet under.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  22. Lou McGopher

    Lou McGopher Member

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    He probably just wanted to invite you to his church.
     
  23. JImbothefiveth

    JImbothefiveth Member

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    A single action is probably dangerous for self-defense. For instance, if you have to hold somebody for the police, you don't want to accidentally fire.
     
  24. irishsquid

    irishsquid Member

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    My first thought is they were shoplifters and nothing more. He was obviously talking to her on the phone and was probably keeping an eye on you and the clerk while she lifted the booze. Your appearance, parking in the vicinity of his car, likely put him on the defensive and he may have felt the need to check you out and cover her exit from the store.

    That said, I believe you handled it well. You were prepared in case it escalated and fortunately it didn't.

    Someone approaching you while talking on a cell phone cannot be construed as a life-threatening situation. "Hunches" and "gut feelings" won't justify the use of deadly force.

    If you're mistaken in a situation like this, you could end up facing a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. Merely flashing your gun is all it takes to justify that charge. That's something I think people need to consider.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  25. Diggers

    Diggers Member

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    A couple of things,

    First (from posting on page 2) do some of you guys really walk around with an auto with no round in the chamber??? :scrutiny:

    Secondly, when threatened into your car is not a safe place to go, its a trap. They know exactly where you are and cars don't stop bullets.

    What you discribe is a little odd, though I don't know if drawing your gun was the right thing or not.

    Its just my point of view, but I am always made a little uneasy by these stories of people drawing guns in places where it is not unusual for other people to be, simply because someone walked close to them.
     
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