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Half a sniper scope?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by 4v50 Gary, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's an image from the "glorious" 1931 Soviet flick, Sniper. You can see that the rifle is an P14 (or M1917) Enfield but look at the scope. It appears that only the occular lens is present and then part of the scope body which ends aburptly. Note the band around the stock too that appears to be like a steel clamp (ala hose clamp approach) to hold the scope onto the stock. If you study the image carefully, it looks like the scope tube ends just around where that band is. Half a scope or someone's broken binocular being used as a faux rifle scope? Or could that round part be a dial for ranges/distances. A lot of British and German scopes had that feature. Thoughts?

    Remember, 1931 was before the Soviets acquired the technology to make their own rifle scopes. They were still experimenting back then and came up with a crappy prismatic scope that didn't work. They then asked the Germans to develop a scope which included both elevation and windage ajustments. This became the basis for the PE (and later PEM) scope used during WW II. Screen Shot 2021-09-13 at 7.29.07 PM.png
     
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  2. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Ya, looks like Comerade prop master was a little lazy and a lot drunk....
     
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  3. Dave DeLaurant

    Dave DeLaurant Member

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  4. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I believe it is an optical illusion and the scope is conventional.
    And a posed picture, what is a Soviet doing with a US made rifle in one or the other caliber he can't readily get?
     
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  5. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Either the American or British contingents of the Western intervention in the Russian Civil war could have brought Pattern 14 or 17 rifles with them. Indeed, the Allied troops used a number of Mosin Nagants as well, since the ammunition was available locally.
    Much of their equipment was abandoned and captured by the Bolsheviks when they left.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War
     
  6. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    I don't think the round anomaly in the middle is a objective lens.
    It looks to me that the scope body extends off the bottom edge of the photo because that tube looks awfully thick for a gun barrel.
    Besides, Soviets were notorious for doctoring propaganda photos.

    ruski.jpg

    Edit after checking out the movie:
    At the Internet Movie Firearms Database "Sniper" (1931) article, the rifle in that photo is identified as a Ross M1910 and other photos show Russian and British forces fighting the Germans in the First World War. A lot of them use Ross 1910s. The Soviet-era film shows Russian snipers as part of the Russian Expeditionary Force sent to France to fight the Germans, before the Russian Revolution.

    That could be an optical illusion that the receiver ring and chamber taper are the eyepiece bell of a 'scope and the handguard is the barrel off the 'scope.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
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  7. Gordon
    • Contributing Member

    Gordon Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    That is most certainly not a Ross- the Ross has no protective rear sight ears and the bolt handle is flat. It is either a Pattern 14 or US M1917.
     
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  9. sarduy

    sarduy Member

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    Original LPVO
     
  10. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Here is a Ross MkIII M1910 side view (could not find a top view) for comparison to the gun in the screen shot identified by IMFDb as a Ross MkIII M1910.
    Ross1910.jpg
    Ross191_.jpg
     
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  11. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    I've consulted with Martin Pegler and Ian Skennerton and both agree it's just not right for a P14 rifle. That band may be a metal band that holds the "scope" to the rifle.

    Someone already answered that. It's probably a P-14 that was supplied to the White Russians and captured by the Soviets.
    Another person suggested it could be the range dial like some of the British and German scopes had.

    The film Sniper did feature mostly scoped Ross rifles and that P14 was only used in a still shot of about four seconds.
     
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  12. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    If you go to the Plains of Abraham in Quebec, there is a regimental museum that has a Ross with Warner & Swazey scope on display. They wanted $100 CN for use of their image.
     
  13. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Just found this today and you're the first to learn of it from me.

    Here's the star of the movie, the scoped Ross rifle used by the Glorious proletariat against his counter-revolutionary and decadent ex-captain.

    Since the Soviets had this scope, it makes me wonder why they didn't copy it? What they did copy was a later German scope of which they asked the Busch to include internal adjustments for windage. This later became the PE 4x scope.

    a-ross-rifle-mark-i-military-model-1905-with-periscop-prism-scope-BR63AE.jpg

    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-a-ross-rifle-mark-i-military-model-1905-with-periscop-prism-scope-31481814.html
     
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