Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Handgun Caliber birthdates

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by 22x9, Dec 24, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 22x9

    22x9 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    USA
    Does anyone know the birthdate/year the handgun cartridges of today?

    Like:
    .22LR
    .22Magnum
    .25ACP
    .32ACP
    .32S&W
    .357Magnum
    .38 Special
    .380ACP
    .40S&W
    .45ACP

    7.62x25
    9x17
    9x18
    9x19
    9x23
    10mm


    I know I've missed some, those were the only ones I could think of.
     
  2. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,882
    Sure, and some people can probably recite them from memory.

    The rest of us have to look them up. :D
     
  3. Schuey2002

    Schuey2002 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,388
    Location:
    The Oregon Coast..
    I'm sure Mike Irwin is probably one of them..;)
     
  4. 22x9

    22x9 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    USA
    Dagnabit... Let me rephrase that.

    What are the birthdates? Or where can I find them?
     
  5. C.R.Sam

    C.R.Sam Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,632
    Location:
    Chino Valley, AZ., USA
    Cartridges of The World is an excellant rescourse.

    Gives history, use, dimensions, performance etc.

    Sam
     
  6. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    509
    Location:
    Gallatin Co. MT
    Some pistol reloading manuals may have dates also. From the Sierra Rifle reloading manual: 9mm Luger 1902; .357 1930s; 41 Mag 1964; 44 Mag December 1955; 45ACP developed in 1906, adopted by the Army in 1911 (sound familiar :)); 45 Colt 1873.
     
  7. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    12,879
    Location:
    Home Of The First Capitol Of The Confederate State
    .357 magnum = 1935, at least that is when Smith & Wesson
    introduced the pre-model 27.

    Best Wishes,
    Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
     
  8. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    7,956
    Location:
    Below the Manson-Nixon line in Virginia...
    well, can't recite all of them, or get every one spot on as per year, but I'll have a go...

    .22LR -- Sometime around 1887 or so. Stevens, I believe, came up with the idea.

    .22Magnum -- Announced 1959, first guns in 1960.

    .25ACP -- Around 1908, I believe.

    .32ACP -- Around 1900.

    .32S&W -- 1874ish.

    .357Magnum -- Announced late 1934, first guns available in 1935.

    .38 Special -- Around 1898/1899 with the Smith & Wesson Military Model Hand Ejector. In other words, the first K frame.

    .380ACP -- Around 1898-1900 or so. John Browning had an incredible run over the span of about 10 years.

    .40S&W -- I believe 1988 or 1989 is when it first became known.

    .45ACP -- 1905.

    7.62x25 -- Around 1895 for the Mauser C96.

    9x17 -- That's the Mak round, so that would be around 1953 or so, first with the Steichen semi/full auto pistol, I believe.

    9x18 -- That's the European designation for the .380 ACP. Answer is the same as above.

    9x19 -- 1904, at the behest of the German Navy.

    9x23 -- Totally stumped on this one.

    10mm -- Around 1983, in the Dornhaus & Dixon Bren 10.
     
  9. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,882
    I thought the 9x18 was the Mak round and the 9x17 the .380.
     
  10. Steven Mace

    Steven Mace Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    Peoria, AZ USA
    .22LR - 1887 by the J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co.
    .22Magnum - 1959 by Winchester
    .25ACP - 1905 in Europe by Browning, 1908 in the USA by Colt
    .32ACP - 1899 by Browning
    .32S&W - 1878 by S&W
    .357Magnum - 1935 by S&W and Winchester
    .38 Special - 1902 by S&W
    .380ACP - 1908 by Browning
    .40S&W - 1989 by S&W and Winchester
    .45ACP - 1905 by Browning

    7.62x25 - 1930, first used in the Tokarev Model TT-30
    9x17 - same as the .380 ACP
    9x18 - late 1950's, a.k.a. 9mm Russian Makarov
    9x19 - 1902 by Georg Luger in the Model 1902
    9x23 - 1996 by Winchester
    10mm - 1983 by Dornaus & Dixon in the Bren Ten

    Cartridges Of The World and The Handloader's Manual Of Cartridge Conversions can also be used as excellent references. Hope this helps!

    Steve Mace
     
  11. Triad

    Triad Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Texas
    Anyone know the difference between that and the 7.63 Mauser? AFAIK they are basically the same round, but the Mauser appeared in the 1890's.
     
  12. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,325
    Location:
    Hoosieropolis
    One was made in Russia and called something different, probably to avoid paying royalties to the Boche. ;)
     
  13. Triad

    Triad Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Texas
  14. Steven Mace

    Steven Mace Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    Peoria, AZ USA
    Some differences between the 7.62x25mm Tokarev and the 7.63x25mm Mauser:

    1. The Tokarev officially lists a .307" diameter bullet while the Mauser lists a .308" diameter bullet.


    2. Rim thickness on the Tokarev is listed as .052" while the Mauser lists .045".

    3. The length to the shoulder from the base on the Tokarev in .76" while the Mauser is .735".

    4. The shoulder angle on the Tokarev is 13.24 degrees and on the Mauser it's 8.64 degrees.

    5. Case capacity on the Tokarev is listed as 15.98 grs. of water while the Mauser is listed having a capacity of 16.30 grs. of water.

    Hope this helps!

    Steve Mace
     
  15. max popenker

    max popenker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,111
    Location:
    Russia
    in fact, the key difference is in the size of the primer. 7.62mm TT uses a larger diameter primer, similar to one found in 7.62mm Nagant cartridges. The extractor groove on the 7.62TT also a little bit larger than on 7.63Meowser :cool: for more positive extraction. othervise, these are interchangeable, unless you will try a hot-rodded Czech 7.62mm military round in the older gun like TT-30 or C-96 (these Czech hot-rods were intended fro SMG and Vz.52 pistols only, you know...)
     
  16. Jim V

    Jim V Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    155
    Location:
    Michigan
    Mike, I thought the German Navy liked and issued the .7.62 Luger round and it was the German Army that wanted a bigger caliber and the 9 was developed for them. I could be wrong however, I have been before.
     
  17. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,325
    Location:
    Hoosieropolis
    Jim V,

    Wasn't .30 Luger the Swiss round and the Germans wanted the bigger bullet?
     
  18. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    7,956
    Location:
    Below the Manson-Nixon line in Virginia...
    The Tok round is best thought of as a manufacturing variation of the Mauser round.

    Germany sold several thousand C96 Mausers to Russia at some point. While the guns weren't too popular, the round was liked.

    I don't think anyone knows exactly why the Soviets chose the 7.63 round, but it likely had a lot to do with the fact that the Nagant round was also .30 caliber so bullet and barrel manufacturing equipment could be piggybacked.


    Jim,

    I don't think the German Navy ever adopted the smaller Luger caliber. Portugal and Switzerland did, and I believe the Royal Netherlands East Indies Army also used Lugers in 7.62.


    As for the .38 Spl., there's a LOT of speculation as to when the round was actually developed. I personally believe that COTW's date of 1902 is too late by about 2 to 3 years. The first guns and cartridges were developed on speculation for possible military acceptance, to replace the ineffective .38 Long Colt, so COTW may be giving the commercial introduction for the round.

    What many people DON'T know is that the first K-frame Hand Ejectors were chambered for .38 Long Colt!

    What is interesting is that the .38 Spl. round was originally developed, and loaded commercially, with black powder, 21.5 grains.
     
  19. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,882
    Yep.
     
  20. BigG

    BigG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    7,081
    Location:
    Dixieland
    I thought the30 Tokarev and 30 Mauser were both preceded by the 30 Borchardt. :confused:

    Russia, I believe, chose 30 cal becuase of the limited manufacturing ability of their workers paradise. Everything they had was 30 caliber. Also why they still use the rimmed Moisin Nagant cartridge in their MGs. We would still be chambering our MGs for 30/40 Krag if we were as advanced. :rolleyes:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page