Handgun for protection from a grizzly?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Solids

"Proper bullet construction, the right velocity is what does it."

that is true. so why is the .375 H&H shooting a cast bullet instead of a RN FMJ or a barnes solid? this caliber has taken many elephant and rhino. from WAY back in 1912, when these kids no doubt roamed the range a little bigger than they are now.

please don't go trying that with a handgun. i won't say it can't be done, it just isn't a very good idea.

gunnie
 
This is really a speculator's topic unless you've actually gone toe-to-toe with a grizzly with your large bore revolver. But, I guess in the spirit of speculation of the inexperienced, I'll drop my 2 cents.

I, personally, think .454 Casull is the lower limit for me. While it may not be as powerful as .460, .475, .480 or .500, it has a quicker follow-up shot time in my opinion. Unless you have gigantic tree-trunk wrists, .454 Casull would be a great choice.

However, I am of the school of thought that for defense against large predators like bears or other large animals like moose (animals will know are coming at you), a short barreled lever-action or bolt action rifle would be most ideal. A carbine length (about 18" or so) lever action in .45-70 or .444 Marlin would be superb. If a company ever gets a .500S&W lever action produced, that would be great, too.

For attackers like wild cats (that you typically don't see coming), a .41mag 4" revolver would be great. If you could draw it while the cat is wrestling with you, your could put it up to its gut and blow a nice hole in it.

But, just my $0.02.

Jason
 
gunnie, do some research, and you will see that a lot of big dangerous game has been taken with handguns from 454 Casull and up.

I am talking elephant, hippo, cape buffalo and rhino.
But just like any other hunter that goes to hunt dangerous game, your guide is there to back you up no matter what you are shooting. Too many people underestimate a handgun.
 
about those cast slugs from the 375 H&H mentioned in the link,
please see below from:

http://www.scidetroit.com/375.htm


Federal Cartridge loads the 300 gr Sledge Hammer in their factory ammo. With these quality solids, it is said that the 375 H&H will "out-penetrate" the 416 and 458 calibers. It may penetrate "deeper", but as good as the 375 H&H is, it is "not" a Remington or Rigby. Those who have used both say there is a marked difference in how game reacts to being hit with a 300 gr. bullet vs. hitting them with a 400 gr. bullet going the same speed. It is called mass X (times) velocity squared.

so really, the paper/bone test proves only penetration.

gunnie
 
Penetration is not the only factor, penetration gets you to where you need the bullet to go. Having a bigger diameter bullet and heavier bullets aids in a larger wound channel.

But you are getting away from the original posters question of handguns.
 
I'm sick of this "self-defense" excuse...(and so is Fish and Game).

Redhawk, good post/valid points...you are probably the exception to the rule. Gunny, you are RIGHT ON TARGET!

All I'm saying is I'm tired of seeing the unnecessary death of Bears from people uneducated about what attracts them (garbage/food discipline, etc.) They all but "bait" the bear into their camp with bad garbage discipline, then are forced to shoot the bear in (so-called) "self defense" with a "problem bear"...when in fact THEY were the problem. I'm sick of this "self-defense" bullcrap.

They go out into the bush, and the only Bear knowlege (or respect) they have (or care to have) is the thought that the Big .44 (454/500) is gonna solve any problem they come across.

Further, they often are not trained to the HIGH DEGREE that YOU are, and their .44/454/500 results in a wounded bear (often one with cubs).

Darn right poor bears, and it's a tragedy I have seen way too often since the .44magnum got all it's publicity in the 70's. Before that, no idiot in their right mind would think of using a pistol against Alaskan Brown Bear.
Good old "Dirty Harry" changed all that.

So NOW you have the average idiot (not yourself) who WAS the problem to begin with(NOT the Bear), who has NOW maybe wounded the bear because: 1) poor marksmanship, 2) not careing to educate himself on the ways of Bush Discipline, and 3) the use of an underpowered weapon.

Let me ask this (rhetorical) question: How much training do you have in marksmanship training with the .44/454/500? Do you have over 3000 rounds of rapid draw/fire practice? Do you shoot several hundred rounds a year with it to stay sharp? Do you practice shooting in a Bear related (stress-fire) type training situation to actually be qualified to use it in this situation?
Are you thoroughly educated on bear attack prevention procedures?
Do you carry your food into the bush in Bearproof containers?
Were any of the 4 Bears pissed off, and charging you or your family?
etc., etc., etc.

If NOT, then you are part of the situation that is ALL TO COMMON...and YOU ARE the problem, NOT the (poor) Bear (and maybe cubs).
Just having a .44 on your hip is NOT the solution to the "Problem Bear".
Education and prevention on YOUR part is the solution.

I have kill 4 black bear with different handguns, 500 Mag, 510 GNR, 454 Casull and 44 Mag. Every bear I shot, never made it further than 25 yards before expiring, and that is with heart and lung shots, no head shots at all.
Click to expand...
YOU make my point exactly!
So, from your experience: 25 yards AFTER shooting heart/lungs.

What I'm saying is that the AVERAGE sunday camper with the "Big Bear-Handgun" mentality, shoots this bear in (garbage/food covered)camp, at 10yards, MAYBE makes a clean shot (and the SOB can still run 25yds!) ...guess what? You shot him at 10yds, and you needed 26!

That's the longest 5 seconds of that poor SOB's life when the Bear runs 10, and then has 5 or 10 seconds to kick his butt (before it MAYBE expires).

The BIG surprise is when the wife finds out that the "big .44" wasn't crap (like hubby swore it was, based on NO experience...but just marketing hype)...CUZ IT MAY BE HER BUTT THAT'S GETTING CHEWED UPON...or the KIDS.
OR ME!

It's kinda like riding a motorcycle without a helmet...if it's your head...okay, more power to ya, and GOOD luck! Hunt Cape Buffalo with a pistol if that's your thing. But don't put your poor wife, kids, camp neighbors, myself, the guides, and Fish and Wildlife into the mix...because it was too inconvenient to carry a larger weapon. (speaking to Average Joe, of course).

IF you are going to be bringing family into the bush, get educated on the ways to be Bear Safe, prevent the unnecessary killing, and stop blaming the "self-defense" situation on the (poor) Bear (and maybe cubs)...when in fact it was YOU that are the problem. Bears will be Bears. YOU are supposed to be "smarter", and use techniques to avoid this situation. It seems, however, that MOST PEOPLE just aint! It's always someone elses (or the Bear's) fault.


Maybe some folks just like the tragedy of having to kill a bear over garbage, then listen to it's cubs scream and cry over their dead mother, or enjoy calling Fish and Game to come and clean up a problem that was created by YOU...(not the Bear).
:banghead:
 
Last edited:
When I was a GI (actually a Airman) stationed in Alaska I wanted to hunt. I didnt buy a handgun. I bought a 450 Marlin after some long discussions with the locals. My backup gun was a friend that I never hunted without who had a 350 Remington Magnum. Bears were killed including one coastal brown bear. All of them were hit good on the first shot but were shot again to put them down for good. This was done at ranges of less than 50 yds every time. Even powerful cartridges with good hits to the vitals arent going to stop a brown bear in its tracks. (perfect headshot maybe)

Also good bullets were used. I had ASquare load me some custom 450 bullets using their proprietary Dead Tough bullet. Same thing with my hunting buddy and his 350 Mag.
 
By the way:

Alaskan Divorce.

An alaskan divorce is when you take your sweetheart out fishing, and make camp.

Then you say "Honey, after that long drive you go ahead and finish your nap...I'm gonna go drown a worm" (fish).

Then as you leave to go fishing, you lay 2 strips of RAW bacon across the top of the tent.

I hear it works every time.:evil:

______________________________________________

And, If YOU wound a bear with a handgun(which is most likely), YOU clean it up.
Don't call a guide, Don't call Fish and Game. Don't call me.
YOU go into that alder patch (with 3' visability) after the Bear you just wounded with your convenient "self-defense" handgun...when he charged you because of your garbage. Better yet, get educated on how to avoid being the problem.
 
Last edited:
does anyone have an opinion on a handgun that would stop a grizzly with one shot?
Click to expand...

Nope.

I don't want a handgun, but rather a Pump Shotgun. There is no "One Shot Stop Guarantee, even with a longarm.

I don't even want a handgun to deal with a bi-pedal aggressor, but carry one or three because of the "portability" and ease of concealment. I'm more likely to have a handgun on me than a Shotgun or an M4 on my person when I most need it.

My "minimum" caliber, in a handgun, for Griz Country is a 44 Magnum, but can make do with a 45 Colt. With that said, I'd prefer a 454, 460 or 500. :)

BikerRN
 
arizonaguide , I am not disagreeing with prevention as the best method. But even with the best prevention used, bear encounters can still happen.

Don't us my 25 yards as an example to further your agenda here. I was merely showing how quickly a bear will die from a proper shot on a bear. Now if I had made a good head shot, I am more than sure the bear would not of made it past either the place where it was shot or maybe a few feet.

But every thing you discussed about bears and handguns can apply to rifles or shotguns in defense situations. Poor shooting for any method will result in a wounded bear.

But getting on a high horse and preaching to others about handguns only is not going to change a thing.

Now to answer your list of questions.

Let me ask this (rhetorical) question: How much training do you have in marksmanship training with the .44/454/500? Do you have over 3000 rounds of rapid draw/fire practice? Do you shoot several hundred rounds a year with it to stay sharp? Do you practice shooting in a Bear related (stress-fire) type training situation to actually be qualified to use it in this situation?
Are you thoroughly educated on bear attack prevention procedures?
Do you carry your food into the bush in Bearproof containers?
Were any of the 4 Bears pissed off, and charging you or your family?
etc., etc., etc.
Click to expand...
I have been handgun hunting for over 25 years, I shoot over 3000 rounds yearly with my big bore handguns.
I have practiced rapid draw/fire, using my 4 inch 500 Mag, I have also practiced multi-firing of the 500 Mag as well.

There is not way on earth anyone can train for a bear attack without having the situation happen. All the training in the world may never prepare you for such a situation, but not having a gun in the same situation is only going to result in your death.

Yes I am thoroughly educated on bear attack prevention procedures, and we had to use them when I was on our Caribou hunt in the Arctic circle. We had a Grizzly come into our camp, we avoided the situation and the bear walked off, and we are around to tell our story of the encounter.

Yes we used bear proof food containers and stored them 200 yards out of the camp.

No, none of the 4 bears I took were pissed off. But if they were the outcome would of been the same, 4 dead bear.

Just to give you a little story about one of my buddies bear hunts last year that we went on. My buddy was in his ground blind when he has a black bear come in, the bear came to his ground blind and stick it's head into the blind, the bear backed out and walked about 3 steps from the blind and then turned to came back to the blind, my buddy shot it from 3 feet and the bear fell back and rolled around on the ground and jumped back up and charged the blind a second time, my buddy shot once more and killed the bear. All that with just a handgun.


I think you need to start your own thread about the poor bears. See how many reply's you get there, This is a handgun hunting area, and as question was asked about handguns and bear protection.
Will a handgun work, sure it will and has. The reason people carry protection is just for that reason Protection.

Coming here and crying about the poor bear is not getting any sympathy from me.

Let me see, me or the bear... I think the bear.
 
pack enough...

"But you are getting away from the original posters question of handguns."

no, i'm trying to warn him that the link you posted was skewed by poor bullet choice. and as such, beware.

i was forced to whack a 600lb (+,-) cow moose with a bad altitude in front of a bud's house in cantwell, AK one spring day. i did it with a .45ACP from a combat comander, about 5' away. the first slug, a 200gr HP, removed a divot of fur and bone from between her eyes, and left them imbeded in the slug that stopped bouncing around by his screen door. it only rung her bell. either # 2 or 3 went in her left eye, and the situation was no longer dangerous.

you see, i know a handgun CAN stop more than their design parameters include. but i still don't recommend it....

gunnie
 
Poor bullet choice, not much will out penetrate a good hard cast bullet. A good hard cast bullet is considered a solid bullet.
Go ahead and do the test yourself with your Barnes bullets or RN bullet, your penetration will not vary much if at all.

You tell me how all them "poor bullet choice" hard cast bullets from a handgun out penetrated most rifles????
 
Reliably stop a grizzly with one shot from a handgun? Haven't seen it and wouldn't want to try it (or be in the vicinity of anyone trying it). In my armchair opinion, I think you'd have a better chance of scaring it off with the noise than putting it down with one shot.

For some perspective:
A relative who was a bear guide for many years (in Alaska) carried a Casull (long before most people had even heard of .454) for, as he put it, a last-ditch up the nose prayer.
 
Handgun for bears...NOT ADVISED!!!

As I said Redhawk, you may be the exception to the rule. Sorry if I don't agree with your recommending it for everyone.
And, I am addressing Joe Average who does NOT shoot 3000rds/year...but probably 30rds/year.

If "getting on my high horse" prevents one wife/child/bear/cub from being killed from "Dirty Harry-Bear Gun" mentality, or poor garbage discipline...then it was worth it.

And I sure DO think this is the thread to talk about it...and I think Fish and Game would agree with me.
It's not "self defense" when it's YOUR FAULT the bear came into camp for your garbage.

Again, inhumane kills and lack of garbage discipline are things I get fired up about.

Best bet: get educated on how to avoid being the problem. And Pepper Spray/12ga for camp.
 
Last edited:
If I ever do venture into Grizzly territory it will be with the biggest/baddest/meanest/nastiest/asswhoopinest rifle caliber I can carry and shoot well. It will also be with a grizzled old fart who didn't get to be a grizzled OLD fart by being stupid and not knowing the area and potential threats.

I've taken a couple of black bears with a 30-30 and do not feel under gunned with .357 and an LBT over max charge of h110...but I CAN and HAVE hit with this combo, out to 50 yards confidently on boar. But a boar or a black bear is nothing compared to a Grizzly or Polar Bear in size or attitude...even just from what I've seen at the zoo I have to chuckle at the thought of using a handgun.
 
Redhawk, I'm not putting you down, Bro! I'm preaching (sorry) to Joe Average, about safety, discipline, and humane killing.

You mentioned:
Yes I am thoroughly educated on bear attack prevention procedures, and we had to use them when I was on our Caribou hunt in the Arctic circle. We had a Grizzly come into our camp, we avoided the situation and the bear walked off, and we are around to tell our story of the encounter.

Yes we used bear proof food containers and stored them 200 yards out of the camp.
Click to expand...

Will you tell more about this story? I'd like to hear what techniques were used to AVOID the bad situation of having to kill the bears, and thereby ruining the Caribou hunt. Maybe a good story for all to hear.

CJ, PPS, Gunny...right on target!
 
velocity

"You tell me how all them "poor bullet choice" hard cast bullets from a handgun out penetrated most rifles"

because they were fired at 1800fps, rather that the 2500fps from the 375.

perhaps you misunderstood what i said. i didn't say they were a poor choice from a handgun. i said they were a poor choice for the 375H&H.

gunnie
 
AzGuide...I like your attitude and style!

The way "it" (ie why carry a revolver of at least 41mag and up IN ADDITION TO A 12ga WITH BRENNEKE BLACK MAGIC SLUGS not instead of) was explained to me is this: you carry a revolver plus the slug gun in order to be able to be able (if you indeed end up able to do this) to pull the gun once the bear has you down on the ground and jam it into mouth/chest/throat and empty the gun into the bruin. No kidding--if folks take some time to research attacks, the cases in which the bear actually made physical contact with the victim AND in which the revolver actually saved the person's life...those cases fit the description of what I've offered. The revolver is basically NOT to be considered the first line of defense against bears--it can be fired once into the dirt to try and scare the thing off, and then you save it as a literally last ditch surprise for the beast if you get the chance to use it.

...unless maybe you've got a 44 mag with heavy bullets and are confronting a black bear as opposed to a brown bear, then it's a judgement call.

All of that having been inartfully said, the needless killing of bears and the pretty hard to excuse wounding of bears (that turn into problems for someone else, someone else's kids, etc) is pretty ridiculous and inexcusable--NO handgun is adequate for reliable bear defense. Carry a 12ga with hard cast slugs or a centerfire rifle of at least 30 caliber and up, the bigger the better within the limits of what a given shooter can usefully handle.
 
Thanks AK!
Too many people think the only education they need is that "Big Handgun" on their hip.
I guess that's what I get so worked up about. Often it costs Bears (and Cubs) and people, their lives...unnecessarily. And that's some VERY sacred stuff (to me).
 
Gunny, velocity does not give you more penetration. There comes a time were too much velocity gives you diminishing returns.

And why do you think a hard cast bullet is a poor choice of bullet for the 375 H&H? I use them with great success.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
Hunting Grizzly Bear with a handgun
Replies
20
Views
2K
Paul "Fitz" Jones
P
Q
  • Locked
Taurus Judge for Grizzly Bears?
2
Replies
26
Views
7K
bikerdoc
bikerdoc
H
  • Locked
And Jeff Cooper said the .25 was not good for anything!
Replies
4
Views
862
Sam1911
S
A
  • Locked
Pistols vs. Animal Attacks
2 3 4
Replies
76
Views
6K
HarleyFixer
H
P
  • Locked
Why not doubles for grizzly protection?
2 3
Replies
65
Views
8K
rbernie
rbernie
Back
Top