Handgun for protection from a grizzly?

[AKCOP]

You know sometimes if all you have is a handgun you might be better off with nothing. I used to hike into a small stream to salmon fish with a .308 thinking it was far better than a .44 mag, which was the most powerful handgun at the time. Walked up on a sow with two cubs, it was a beautiful on Kodiak, a rare one indeed, and I was taking everything in and not paying attention. At about 50 feet that sow looked like the empire state building when she stood up with her cubs huddled between her legs. I took aim at that big old head and knew that I was about to die. I figured I might get one shot if I took it, then unless it dropped her in her tracks she would be pounding me before I had a chance to even think about shot #2. Instead I started to back up real slow yelling and making as much noise as I could. Luckily I had the wind at my back and she had the morning sun in her eyes. She dropped and ambled away with her cubs.

It is a fact that far too many people would have simply pulled the trigger because they had a gun and had read countless stories about bears eating people and therefore believed it was their only option.
I even knew of one idiot who actually went out looking to push bears into a charge because he wanted t see if he was man enough to shoot and kill and therefore able to tell all his friends was a real man he was. Of course he ended up killing a bear, proved he was a real man and for what! You know folks in Alaska really get tired of all this handguns for bear talk.

 

[Redhawk1]

OK..... Then answer this question, why do some of the AK outfitter's recommend to bring a back up handgun...

I guess you know something they don't...

 

[arizonaguide]

No Bull..just make sure to file down that front sight.

AKCOP, I couldn't have said it better myself.
And cool story about the Kodiak.

I try to be diplomatic, but were fighting Hollywood (marketing hype) here..and somefolks you just can't save from themselves.

No Bull, here Redhawk. And nobody said don't take a gun. What we're saying is take enough gun to do the job right. Handgun aint it. Magnum Caliber Rifle, (or 12ga and pepper spray, up close). I'm not the one being hard-headed.

VERY slowly and clearly now:
All weapons are a maybe, because (99%)you aint gonna get a CNS shot. So take the one that gives you the best odds with a vitals shot. And that AINT a freakin handgun...as a primary weapon. And pray (just freakin pray) you don't GET YOURSELF into having to shoot one at 10yards with ANY weapon!

No BS! I Can't put it any simpler for ya...but you've got your mind made up so good luck.
Stick with that .44mag "Dirty Harry" mentality...just make sure to file down that front sight.
And, just make sure nobody I care about is anywhere around you.

But, try this Muay Thai idea first, before you bring that pea-shooter to Alaska, okay?
Maybe that's a good idea too.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=409071

 

[dagger dog]

By the time I add my 2c to this hotly contested thread there are 155 or so posts, I didn't read 'em all and I may be repeating but here it goes any hoo.

I wish yours truly here was bright enough to have come up with this little bit of wisdom but I wasn't so I will quote,

" For all of you hand gun hunters out there with out bear hunting experience".

" If you are dertermined to use your hand cannon to hunt bear, make sure to file the front sight down in height, that way when the bear shoves it up your bum it wont hurt as much!"

 

[arizonaguide]

OK..... Then answer this question, why do some of the AK outfitter's recommend to bring a back up handgun...

I guess you know something they don't...

That is as a total "last ditch" (shoot them as they're chewing on you) recomendation.

Personally, I think you're better with 12ga/pepper spray in that instance.

In fact, You have given me a new marketing idea RH! Thanks. I'm gonna invent a lower ("tactical")rail mounted pepper spray for my Shotty! I'll be in the garage if ya need me...I have to develop a quick prototype for Ruger.
Thanks, Bro!

 

[arizonaguide]

A man was walking in the woods.

"What beautiful trees.
What beautiful rivers.
What beautiful animals."
He said to himself.

As he was walking further he turned a corner into a 9 foot tall grizzly bear.
The bear (surprised) raised his paw to strike at the man, and the man (fearing his death) yelled
"OH my GOD!"

Just then, time stood still.
The bear froze.
The forest was silent.

As a bright light shone on the man, a voice came out of the sky "you only call me (God) now, after all these years of denying my existance?"
"If you want me to help you out of this you must show me some faith...can I count you as a believer?" (said God).

The man replied "you are right, maybe that would be hypocritical of me...perhaps you could make the BEAR a believer"

"Very well" said the voice.

The light went out. The sounds of the forest resumed. And the Bear dropped his paw, brought both paws together, and bowed his massive head and spoke:

"Lord bless this food which I am about to receive...Amen".

 

[4Freedom]

The light went out. The sounds of the forest resumed. And the Bear dropped his paw, brought both paws together, and bowed his massive head and spoke:

"Lord bless this food which I am about to receive...Amen".

Nothing like fresh Human meat, yum..


Anyhow, I am not gun expert, but any moron who thinks he can kill a charging 2000 lb Kodiak Grizzly bear with a handgun, better hope his gun is equipped with a grenade launcher. I mean handguns, fail many times to stop humans. Now, just imagine a monsterous bear, who may even be infected with rabies. Rabid animals don't feel any pain. Just imagine a bear filled with adrenaline and its got a massive amount of body armor. Its like the thing wears a kevlar vest all around its body.

Anyhow, its true, some expert marksman with balls of steel will be able to get a bear right between the eyes while it is charging you at 30 miles an hour. However, I will gladly have a loaded shotgun for the occasion.

Once again, get some pepper spray and spray out to 30 feet or so. Once the bear hits the cloud, his sinuses swell up and its blinds him. It creates great agony for the bear. I am not sure how effective it would be against a rabid bear, but the pepper spray distorts its natural senses so it is disoriented. It no longer can sense where you are and cannot smell you.

However, if I had a charging grizzly at me, I would have shotgun in one hand and pepper spray in the other.

A hand gun will just piss him off. Why use a hand gun , when pepper spray is guaranteed to be much more effective?


Now, for black bears I think hand gun can be very useful. You have to remember they are like 1/3rd the size of grizzly and much more cowardly. I myself am looking into handguns to protect myself against black bear/ cougar attacks. Of course, its a last resort, like perhaps my pepper spray fails to shoot or the bear is too close and acting vicious. This is good sign of rabies or being overprotective with the cubs. Wrong place, wrong time, situation.

 

[AKCOP]

Outfitters want your $$$$$$, They also know one of the first questions from clients is about bears and handguns. They also know that if they tell them DO NOT bring a handgun they are either going to another outfitter or they bring it anyway.

 

[jackdanson]

leave the bush to people who go prepared.

Bah, I backpacked for years (including in grizz areas) without any firearm of any sort. If you take basic precautions there will be very little need to resort to using a firearm. Bears aren't ruthless killing machines. I would be much more concerned with human predators.
There have been under 30 deaths from bear attacks in the past 10 years, compare that to the ~180,000 deaths in the past 10 years from people on people murders.

That being said, being prepared for the worst isn't a bad idea. I'd carry bear spray, a good knife, and a long gun if I was very concerned. Pistol isn't even worth the trouble for bears.

 

[Jason M]

This thread has gotten ridiculous.


I am with Arizonaguide on pretty much everything. He hasn't been preaching antigun or tree-hugging rhetoric. He has been saying "take enough gun." I don't see how it is simpler than that or hard to understand, for that matter.

You guys are so hungry for an argument that you fail to see the forest through the trees (seemed like an appropriate pun).

I think this thread should be considered for closing, IMO.

Jason

 

[gglass]

This is my choice for putting fresh bear meat on the table...

Hmmm... I wonder what bear tastes like?


_________________________
Close thread here.
_________________________

 

[4Freedom]

Hmmm... I wonder what bear tastes like?

Similar to dog meat I am told.. Yumm...

 

[jbech123]

I'm definitely on board with AZ guide, be smart in bear country and take a rifle. Because of dirty harry movies and such, the 44 mag has obtained mythical status.
On the other hand people like 4 freedom throw things out about the grizzly that are preposterous:

Anyhow, I am not gun expert, but any moron who thinks he can kill a charging 2000 lb Kodiak Grizzly bear with a handgun, better hope his gun is equipped with a grenade launcher.

A true 1,000 pound bear is exceptional, there is no such thing as a 2,000 pound brown bear.

A hand gun will just piss him off. Why use a hand gun , when pepper spray is guaranteed to be much more effective?

Agree a handgun is a bad option, but there are hardly any guarantees when charging bears are involved, especially spray!

Now, just imagine a monsterous bear, who may even be infected with rabies. Rabid animals don't feel any pain.

Are you a vet? How do you know they don't feel pain? While it is possible that a bear could get rabies since it is a mammal, rabies in grizzly bears is an extraordinarily rare occurance.

Just imagine a bear filled with adrenaline and its got a massive amount of body armor. Its like the thing wears a kevlar vest all around its body.

Bears are formidable creatures for sure, with thick hides and large bones, but they are not indestructable or even close. I have killed 2 in Alaska(hunting, not in self defense.) I used a 375 H&H. The first one the shot was he was quartering toward me, hit him right at the seam of the shoulder and neck, about 150 yards. Dropped immediately, did not take 1 step or even twitch after hitting the ground. The second one was broadside at about 200 yards. One shot in the shoulder, he stood up, flipped over backwards, and never took another step.

Now, for black bears I think hand gun can be very useful. You have to remember they are like 1/3rd the size of grizzly and much more cowardly.

Good theory, but due to proximity, there are actually more black bear attacks than grizzly.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Carry the darned Rifle/shotgun

If I ever go to Alaska, of course I'll carry a magnum rifle. However, I think I'll still keep a handgun as back-up.

I like to think we accomplished something

You've given figures for the minimum rifle to carry.


And the brown bear picture may have scared someone in to taking along a rifle. It's made me think it might be a good idea to take one in to a tent and keep it handy. (I already thought it was a good idea, actually, but it reinforces why.)

 

[Redhawk1]

What does Dirty Harry have to do with this? I don't recall him in bear country. What Dirty Harry movie did I miss?

Kind of a dumb analogy if I say.

I guess all the poor guys that were in Alaska 120 years ago with there round ball flint lock muzzle loaders and little rifles never had to kill a bear in self defense. Good think they did not know they were using inferior rounds, that won't kill a bear.

 

[Rodentman]

I don't know anything about hunting or bear attacks, but I have had bear meat and I didn't like it.

 

[4Freedom]

On the other hand people like 4 freedom throw things out about the grizzly that are preposterous:

What I said is not preposterous... Yes, I was exaggerating a little bit, but what I said is not impossible by any means. Maybe you can go ahead and do a little more research on bears, especially Kodiak Grizzlies. I was not referring to the average brown bear roaming through Alaska or Canada. Kodiak Grizzlies are perhaps the largest grizzlies in the world. Some gentleman here was discussing a story when he had a confrontation with a Kodiak, which is larger than your average grizzly. There has been reports of Kodiak bears not only as a big as 2,000, but even 3,000 pounds! Polar bears can also reach up to 2,000.. ALthough the larger polar bears average around 1,500lbs. There is a guy who has a pet Kodiak grizzly which he uses for commercials and I think its recorded weight is almost 2,000 pounds.

Mind you do a little research before you quickly try to slam another person's comments. Thanks

Heres a good link on Wikipedia, so you can learn bit more about Kodiak Grizzlies and Polars. That was the bear I was referring to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodiak_bear
http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/bear.html

Compare size of this Kodiak bear's head to his trainer's entire body:
http://www.kodiakgrizzly.com/EducationalPrograms.htm

The largest wild Kodiak bear on record weighed +2,500 pounds (+1,134 kilograms)[8] and was almost 14 feet tall on its hind legs. In captivity, Kodiak bears have reached over 3000 pounds

 

[Redhawk1]

Good old Wikipedia... Two old people posting stuff........ Great research....

Captive bear, kind of like pin raised deer. They are always bigger than in the wild. :banghead:

 

[4Freedom]

Fine.. ok Trash Wikipedia.. Personally, I think Wikipedia is correct 90% of time when it comes to just research articles, versus articles on philosophy or opinionated ones. Anyhow, how about bear planet?

http://www.bearplanet.org/

The bears may stand over 10 feet tall on its hind legs and weights more than 680 kilogram (for example Alaskan kodiak bear or Artic polar bear).
The body weight varies between 25 and 800 kilograms (appx 1800lbs), whereby the males become always clearly heavier than the females. The skin is rather long and with most kinds in-colored, most brown or black. The usually elongated lip accommodates 40 or 42 teeth depending upon kind.

OR MSN ENcarta
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579742/brown_bear.html



http://www.helium.com/items/880595-animal-facts-kodiak-bear

The Kodiak bear also known as the Alaskan Brown Bear is native to south Alaska. Weight in at over 1500 pounds and 11 feet tall, this species of brown bear is known as the largest. While it size makes it intimidating it is not the most aggressive bear its cousin the grizzly bear owns the rights to that title.

There is many more...


I agree you will very rarely find a grizzly bear that is over 1,200 or so pounds. But, I was not talking about a normal grizzly, I was talking about a Kodiak. And yes, with a Kodiak, you can definately find some in the 2,000 range. Its not common and I said I was just exaggerating a bit.. Anyhow, for you to say that a bear weighing over 2,000 lbs in wild is preposterous is fallible in its own right, since it is not impossible.

 

[4Freedom]

Agree a handgun is a bad option, but there are hardly any guarantees when charging bears are involved, especially spray!

Yeah, well no guarantees I don't slip on a banana peel and break my neck tonight either. Thats life.

Are you a vet? How do you know they don't feel pain? While it is possible that a bear could get rabies since it is a mammal, rabies in grizzly bears is an extraordinarily rare occurance.

I am not a vet, but have studied about rabies. I have traveled to some countries where it is prevalent. I, myself have almost been exposed. My guide had the honor of chopping to death a dog that attacked him and his daughter and resulted in him getting rabies shots.

Yeah rabid creatures can be very delusional and they do lose normal senses. Rabies in bears is rare, but they are a mammal and can get it. There has been known cases of people being attacked by rabid bears.

Bear attacks are rare, so is rabies. But if a bear is attacking you, you are not necessarily sure as of the reason. If it loses its normal senses, due to certain pain receptors being turned off, then perhaps even pepper spray can fail. That was what I was trying to say. However, as you said rabies in bears is rare, so usually a bear who is attacking you is in its full senses and a blast of pepper spray to its face will screw up his head and he will retreat.

 

[orchidhunter]

I hear Sara Palin hunts them with a 22LR. orchidhunter

 

[4Freedom]

Sarah Palin doesn't need a 22LR, she can take care of them with her bare hands. Oh yeah and a good knife to field dress them.

 

[arizonaguide]

Magnum Rifle, 12ga and Pepper Spray!

Boone and Crockett record = ?

1000lb bears are NOT uncommon...in Alaska.
Maybe not in Delaware, and perhaps that's the rub.

But even with smaller CONUS bears, I'll take a Magnum Caliber rifle please for defense of MY family.
Or, at close range 12ga/pepper spray. (still working on my "tactical" 12ga pepper spray rail mount rig!(thanks Bro!))

Squirrels are common with rabbies, and I have seen a Large Brown dig several cubic yards of dirt (and spend WAY more than a squirrels worth of calories) digging after a small Ground squirrel to eat. Doesn't make much intelligent sense, does it?
That's because they don't always USE logic...and are unpredictable.

However, I have also seen a Brown Bear skillfully use his claws as a "prying tool" to pop open the car door (and then a cooler) by placing his claws into the door seem, and prying it open. Kinda makes you wonder just how much basic logic they DO have!

Bottom line: Bears are a Trip!!! r-e-s-p-e-c-t!

 

[okespe04]

Honestly I think huge can of bear mace may be most affective. I know a guy that used to camp out in the Alaskan outback for weeks and he said mace works the best to make them go away.

 

[arizonaguide]

Yup! and that way everybody goes home unhurt, including the bear and possibly her cubs.

Pepper spray and a warning shot (w/mag rifle or 12ga)can do VERY good things.

(of course ya gotta watch out for those South of the Border Black Bears...I hear they LIKE Jalapenos!)