Handguns 95% effective against bear attacks?

[SunnySlopes]

When the guide was recently killed by a bear, the news said there was a handgun available, but that the client didn't know how to operate a Glock. I wondered why the guide hadn't taken something more appropriate like maybe, a 45-70 Marlin.

But here's an article about the efficacy of handguns in stopping a bear attack. The primary criteria was that 1) the gun had to be actually fired and 2) the bear no longer attacked. The second criterion could have been because the bear was killed or simply fled the scene.

Anyway, it's an interesting article.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pi...nd-against-bear-attack-95-effective-63-cases/

I think I'm in the market for a new, stainless double action 44 mag revolver.......

"Redhawk", anyone?

 

[Sistema1927]

Interesting. Noticed that several of those were here in New Mexico. I try to have an adequate sidearm when wandering around in bear country, but recognize now that if I find myself unprepared to use whatever I have at my disposal.

 

[SunnySlopes]

Also, I remember Larry Kelly of Magnaport in his cabin on a bear hunt. A bear wandered/broke in and Kelly shot it six times with a Ruger Super Blackhawk. It didn't stop the bear and Kelly had to bail out a window. Kelly had loaded expanding bullets and the bullets expanded before they reached the bear's vitals. Kelly loaded hard cast solid points after that. In all fairness to the hollow points, it was a griz, and a griz with a thick winter coat on can be a problem.

 

[JONWILL]

When the guide was recently killed by a bear, the news said there was a handgun available, but that the client didn't know how to operate a Glock. I wondered why the guide hadn't taken something more appropriate like maybe, a 45-70 Marlin.

But here's an article about the efficacy of handguns in stopping a bear attack. The primary criteria was that 1) the gun had to be actually fired and 2) the bear no longer attacked. The second criterion could have been because the bear was killed or simply fled the scene.

Anyway, it's an interesting article.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pi...nd-against-bear-attack-95-effective-63-cases/

I think I'm in the market for a new, stainless double action 44 mag revolver.......

"Redhawk", anyone?

I remember reading about that case. The client had shot an Elk the previous day and they were not able to track it due to it getting dark

The next day they tracked and found it. The guide didn't see any signs where a bear had been near the carcass. He had been on many hunts and figured the area was safe

He went to field dress the Elk and took his Glock off because is was uncomfortable and the work was messy.

Well a bear showed up and attacked before the guide could get to his Glock

The Client was not familiar with the Glock and accidentally hit the magazine release button and dropped the magazine.

The Client survived.The Guide didn't

I think a second handgun, a revolver would have been a good choice to take in addition to the Glock

Even a shooter who is not familiar with handguns can normally pick up a DA or SA revolver and shoot it.

 

[Gridley]

While I do not disagree with the basic conclusion - that pistols can be effective - on a fast run through the "fail" cases I didn't see any with no survivors. That seems quite surprising to me, and I have to wonder if such cases were excluded because there is no narrative of what happened. If that's the case the failure rate might be higher, though again it seems probable to me that the basic point is valid.

 

[dh1633pm]

To me its like the Taco Bell commercial advertising 88% beef. While 95% would be excellent odds, .100% is better. But then again, we only have black bears and they are more north. It was a very interesting article. Just giving some thoughts I had, from a non expert.

 

[SSN Vet]

I'm puzzled that there are people out there that are too dense to figure out how a Glock works. Pull the trigger! that's all there is to it.

 

[<*(((><]

I'm puzzled that there are people out there that are too dense to figure out how a Glock works. Pull the trigger! that's all there is to it.

Especially, a hunter. I guess he was looking for the safety and found the magazine dump.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Folks that have only used pistols like the 1911 always start by disengaging the safety... .

 

[jmr40]

I've read an earlier article by the same people and posted it here previously. The 1st article documented 37 cases and the only failure to stop a bear was when the shooter missed. I see this is an updated version with 63 cases documented.

I've long suspected that "normal" handguns were much more effective against bear attacks than most of us suspected and these studies support that. I've never felt that the big hand cannon like 454 and 500 S&W were really needed.

I haven't had time to fully read and digest the updated version, but in the original study 44 magnum was the most commonly used handgun used. But the 9mm, 40, 45 and 10mm combined accounted for more bear stops than all others combined with 100% effectiveness.

The mistake made by the guide who was killed by the bear was two fold. #1, he took the pistol off and laid it with his pack while gutting the elk. At exactly the time he was most likely to have needed it. Mistake #2 was carrying it with an empty chamber. When the bear attacked the guide was unable to get to the handgun. The hunter did and when he tried to fire it there was no round in the chamber. Not being familiar with Glocks he started looking for a safety and dumped the magazine instead.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Interesting. Noticed that several of those were here in New Mexico. I try to have an adequate sidearm when wandering around in bear country, but recognize now that if I find myself unprepared to use whatever I have at my disposal.

And of course that means the bears in question were Black bears, not grizzlies. We have plenty of Black bears in Arkansas, and they're not hard to deter.

 

[jamesinalaska]

I haul 100's of pounds of old doughnuts and stale bread, mountains of greasy, black bananas, and gallons of burnt frying oil from the fast food joints to my bear-bait station every spring. I"ve always felt amply armed with either my .357 or my 40 caliber whenever I have pulled that freighting sled into my station (a three mile trek from the truck.)

The boys are old enough to go with me on those trips now, and between the two of them they can safely muster the 45-70. In a couple of more years they will be pulling the loaded sled in, and I will carry the rifle.

 

[FlSwampRat]

I think I'm in the market for a new, stainless double action 44 mag revolver......."Redhawk", anyone?

Anaconda.

 

[mcb]

After a quick skimming it seems like a good collection of data/incidents. I am always leery around threads that involve a mix bruins and handguns. All logic and common-sense reasoning go out the window when these two elements are mixed. Add in 10mm Auto and the wheels just seem to come off the discussion.

 

[FlSwampRat]

After a quick skimming it seems like a good collection of data/incidents. I am always leery around threads that involve a mix bruins and handguns. All logic and common-sense reasoning go out the window when these two elements are mixed. Add in 10mm Auto and the wheels just seem to come off the discussion.

"When bears attack! Bowie knife or mini-gun? Next on News At 11!"

 

[B_Li_Ber_Tar_Ian]

Another use for the Judge is found

 

[Mn Fats]

I'd speculate cowardice. I'm sorry but how do you just accidentally drop a mag while a guide is being eaten then just move on.

Put it back in and try again. It's a Glock.

 

[Patocazador]

My brother and I went on an archery elk hunt in the Bob Marshall Wilderness in 1981. At that time there had been several killings of campers around Glacier N.P. He was a Montana resident and bought an OTC grizzly tag for $25. When 25 griz were killed by any method (cars, self-defense, nuisance, etc. plus hunting), the season closed. He carried a 4-barreled C.O.P. in .357 mag. and I carried a 4" S&W model 29. We didn't encounter any grizzly bears, only black bears. I felt much more secure than he did even though I expected that I could be severely injured even if I shot a griz with the .44 mag.

We practiced good bear procedures in camp and hung our food from a branch about 250 yds. from the tent. The main thing we worried about were the trout remains at the creek that was only 120 yards from the tent.

We were there for a week and made out OK but were very careful. Don't depend on any gun to make up for having a sloppy campsite or a gut pile.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Mistaking a magazine release for a safety is absurd. All magazine releases are in essentially the same place. What? Did he hope he could make it into a safety?

 

[jmorris]

When the guide was recently killed by a bear, the news said there was a handgun available, but that the client didn't know how to operate a Glock. I wondered why the guide hadn't taken something more appropriate like maybe, a 45-70 Marlin.

I am not trying to be insensitive but if the guy didn’t know how to operate a Glock, a Marlin 45-70 might as well have been a flame thrower, maybe a time machine.

All one has to do to fire a loaded Glock is pull the trigger, release and pull it again, doesn’t get much more basic than that.

 

[JONWILL]

Of course the client might have been under a little stress. The guide was being eaten right in front of him and he was next on the buffet

Under the stress I am sure he wasn’t thinking “sight picture, deep breath, squeeze the trigger”. He was in full panic. Maximum adrenaline dump

He grabbed a gun he was apparently not familiar with. It also had an empty chamber. Bad combination

I am going to use myself as an example. I carry a S&W Bodyguard 38 Special a lot. It has the cylinder release on the top instead on the left side like other Smith revolvers. I decided to go to the range and take my 638 to shoot also. I shot the 5 rounds at a target 15’ away. I went to do a quick reload.

I found myself reaching for the cylinder release on the top instead of on the side. Now I was just at the range not getting ready to be eaten by a bear. No one should criticize the guy. It is a learning lesson for everyone.

I am glad I learned mine at the range and not while being attacked by a human or wild animal. Of course those are sometimes one in the same

 

[rpenmanparker]

Of course the client might have been under a little stress. The guide was being eaten right in front of him and he was next on the buffet

Under the stress I am sure he wasn’t thinking “sight picture, deep breath, squeeze the trigger”. He was in full panic. Maximum adrenaline dump

He grabbed a gun he was apparently not familiar with. It also had an empty chamber. Bad combination

I am going to use myself as an example. I carry a S&W Bodyguard 38 Special a lot. It has the cylinder release on the top instead on the left side like other Smith revolvers. I decided to go to the range and take my 638 to shoot also. I shot the 5 rounds at a target 15’ away. I went to do a quick reload.

I found myself reaching for the cylinder release on the top instead of on the side. Now I was just at the range not getting ready to be eaten by a bear. No one should criticize the guy. It is a learning lesson for everyone.

I am glad I learned mine at the range and not while being attacked by a human or wild animal. Of course those are sometimes one in the same

Shouldn’t the client have learned at the range also? Shouldn’t the guide have made sure the client was familiar with all the weapons being carried?

 

[JONWILL]

Shouldn’t the client have learned at the range also? Shouldn’t the guide have made sure the client was familiar with all the weapons being carried?

Yes and yes. Learning on the range and shooting under extreme duress are two different things

Yes the guide should have made sure the client was familiar with all weapons that they had with them

It’s one of those things called complacency. The guide had been out on hundreds of hunts and never had a problem with a bear the next day. He told himself this time won’t be any different. This pistol gets in my way while I Field dress this Elk. I’ll take it off since I won’t need it anyway

No different than one of us leaving the house without being armed. ( yes I am guilty of that sometimes). You don’t need a gun until you do.

I learned that one day talking to my neighbors son.
He worked at a Dollar General close to town. I go there once or twice a week. Decent area. It is always a quick trip. Run in grab milk and go.
Found out from him that there has been an armed robbery the day before. That was a wake up call for me. I got complacent sometimes and didn’t feel like going upstairs and opening the safe and getting my gun. Lesson learned

 

[JeffG]

I'd speculate cowardice. I'm sorry but how do you just accidentally drop a mag while a guide is being eaten then just move on.

Put it back in and try again. It's a Glock.

I'd speculate cowardice.
Yup.
As an old Amish gentleman once opined to me, "Better thee, than me."

The hunter was, I suspect, just delighted the bear was busy with the guide.

 

[WrongHanded]

There's a reason we don't hear of more cases where handguns completely fail to stop an attacking bear.

The bears eat everything!