HANDGUNS overbuilt for the caliber they fire?

[belus]

CZ's, especially the steel framed ones, are way over built for 9mm. The Springfield P9 (a clone) was used as the base for the first 9mm major guns.

I would argue that to be true of all the steel Browning High Power-based 9's

Two things:
1) The CZ isn't based on the Hi Power, they just look a little similar
2) The High Power isn't a very strong design, even 9mms tend to wear out rather quickly

 

[cleetus03]

here's some more info from the article intro I added to the op;

The top-strap is the most visible external piece of over-engineering on the Ruger revolver, which allows it to service as an example of the overall design philosophy.

Now, this does not mean that the Ruger is a “better” revolver. However, it’s worth pointing out that there no sections in reloading manuals labeled “Smith & Wesson only” or “Colt only”, but there are sections labeled “Ruger only”.

 

[1911Tuner]

WHile the article cited above was correct about Ruger's thick topstraps...the writers seem to have missed the point. Erosion isn't the reason for the thickness, though that would play into the overall reason for the Ruger's brute strength.

The thick topstrap withstands tensile stress...stretch...better than thinner ones.

When a revolver is fired, the bullet's forward drag on the barrel and the equal forces pushing the frame in the opposite direction places the frame under high tensile stresses.

The frame stretches, then snaps back. During the stretching phase...the headspace increases for a few brief milliseconds...allowing the case to back up in the chamber until it stops against the recoil shield.

Over time and use...the frame becomes less elastic and doesn't snap back as readily or to its original dimension...and the process repeats until the shooter notices that the gun is looser than it used to be. Endshake is the technical term for it...and off to the smith it goes for a tune-up. He corrects the endshake with shims, and the gun is almost as good as new. The barrel-cylinder gap is a bit larger than it was...but pretty much all that does is cut the velocity a few fps...and lead to accelerated gas cutting above the gap.

As the frame begins to gas cut, it becomes a weak place...and the stretch occurs faster and is more pronounced than it was when the gun was new, so the tune-up doesn't last quite as long, and the endshake returns with fewer rounds fired than it took originally.

The thick, hellishly strong Ruger topstraps forestall this to a great degree. In this area, they are over-engineered for their application. Remember that it's not pressure that kills'em. It's the recoil impulse generated by driving bullets faster...and the heavier the bullet for a given velocity...the harder it is on the frame.

 

[cleetus03]

On that subject, all guns are overbuilt. Would anyone want a gun that was made to just contain the pressure of firing? Would any company advertise by saying "our gun is barely strong enough to keep from blowing up"? I think not.

Gun manufacturers do advertise how confident they are in the engineered design of their guns. They strictly state this in their manual under the ammunition section.

Lets see how the following companies answer this simple customer question….Can I use +P or +P+ in your firearm?

Kel-Tec states…

the p-3at/p-11/pf-9 pistols will accept +p ammunition however not with continuous use.

Sig Sauer states…..

+P Ammo manufactured to SAAMI/CIP/NATO specs is fine to use as a defensive round or for occasional range use. Continual use of this round will make it necessary for more frequent service on the pistol. We do NOT recommend the use of any +P+ round. This may void your warranty.

Smith and Wesson states….

“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety built into some revolvers and could therefore be DANGEROUS.

Taurus states….

“Plus-P’, “PIus-P-Plus” or other ultra or high velocity ammunition generates pressures significantly in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the useful life of the firearm or exceed the margin of safety built into many pistols and could therefore be DANGEROUS.

Notice how all these companies give an equivocal answer by not boldly stating YES or NO or more correctly YES and NO. With that in mind I was quite surprised when I looked up what Ruger’s Website had to say on the manner. Ruger does address this question with a specific yes or no. Even more so they state their policy stance on all of their guns individually. For example;

On their LCP, Ruger States…..

No. The Ruger LCP was not designed for use with +P ammunition. Given the LCP's light weight and compact design, the use of +P ammunition in this particular model may result in damage to the firearm or personal injury.

On their LCR, Ruger states….

The LCR is designed specifically for modern higher-powered factory loaded cartridges, including .38 Special and .38 Special +P ammunition.

On their P series 9mm Pistols, Ruger states…..

The Ruger 9mm pistols are chambered for the 9x19mm NATO Parabellum (9mm Luger) cartridge, compatible with the U.S. and foreign military or commercial 9x19mm loads manufactured in accordance with NATO, U.S., SAAMI, or CIP standards, including high-velocity, subsonic, tracer, hollow point, ammunition loaded in aluminum, steel, or brass cartridge cases, +P and +P+ ammunition.

I like how Ruger gives you a genuine answer. Ruger states to its customers, Yes you completely and confidently can use the following or No sorry but its essential that you do not use the following.


p.s. I'm not in anyway trying to showboat Ruger, It just happened to be the only company that stated a specific yes/no stance on the use of high pressure ammo on their website.

 

[Blue Brick]

Any and all Rugers that were designed or built when the old man was still alive.

 

[nelson133]

Cz 82

 

[woad_yurt]

Here's an overbuilt one, an Iver Johson Cadet. It shoots .32 S&W Longs and weighs like a little brick. It's pretty accurate, has a screw adjustable hammer spring and would be great for someone who can't take any recoil.

​

 

[Koos Custodiet]

+ another 1 on the K-22. Thing can take a 38 and is chambered in a 22. Can't see it lasting much less than forever.

And the Freedom Arms revolvers. The 454 is built like a tank, the lesser calibers should also last forever and a bit.

 

[farscott]

The Freedom Arms 83 chambered in .22 LR is overbuilt as it is a five-shooter whose cylinder weighs more than most .22 LR revolvers.

 

[Don357]

If Glocks are so over built, and over engineered, how come so many go "KABOOM"?

+5 on the Rugers and add Magnum Research

 

[JohnKSa]

The 9mm Glocks (especially the 17 and the 19) are overbuilt. I wouldn't make the same claim for most of the other Glock offerings with the possible exception of the Glock 20.

 

[tercel89]

CZ-82 and CZ-83

 

[zt77]

two words- combat magnum

 

[NMGonzo]

Bersa 23 .22lr

 

[Chris Plitt]

Honestly, all of the 9mm sigs are overbuilt for the caliber. When you look at the steel put into them and look at the SLIGHT differences between the 9mm models and the .357 and .40 models... you get my point.

Also, I think that the HK USP9s ALL OF THEM are overbuilt. I recall someone mentioning running +p+ through them. It seems if you call all the other companies they tell you not to (the ammo isnt exactly SAAMI spec) but HK says, sure! GO AHEAD!

 

[candr44]

Star Megastar in .45. Although, the 10mm Megastar is one of the few guns of its time that could handle a steady diet of full power loads.

The .45 caliber CZ97b is also over built but its also a pretty damn accurate gun.

 

[MCgunner]

The Freedom Arms 83 chambered in .22 LR is overbuilt as it is a five-shooter whose cylinder weighs more than most .22 LR revolvers.

Also in .357 mag the FA is way overbuilt. Hell, it's overbuilt in .454 Casull!

The Rugers are just too obvious. I have 7 Rugers and they're all overbuilt. The P90, both blackhawks, the P85, and no one's mentioned, but MY GAWD, the Ruger Old Army! I've had 2, one stainless that got ripped off and my current blued one. Jeez, it's just black powder, people! I heard a story, though I'd never ever try it, that Ruger stuffed an Old Army's cylinder full of bullseye and seated a ball over it and torched it off, no doubt hiding behind armor plate, and the gun survived. WOW, there's your most overbuilt gun extant IMHO. Well, I don't know, when FA came out with that .22, it did seem a bit silly, LOL! It is very accurate, though. I think their market may have been IHMSA rimfire class, not sure.

 

[jfh]

The most overbuilt Semiauto I've owned

was a S&W 1006. It would gobble up the hottest factory loads (Lapua, first gen 200-gr.) and hotter handloads and just keep getting more and more accurate, without a bobble or undue effects to the components.

Downsizing a firearm like that is an easy way to get an overengineered one.

Jim H.

 

[mesinge2]

What about the H&K mark 23 model O. I can fit two fingers in the trigger guard without touching the trigger.


I've handled and fired the mk23 model O and the USP 45 and the 23 is like Godzilla compared to the USP.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Ruger p-Series and Revolvers ! Like a Abrams Tank!

 

[Noveldoc]

Just bought a decades old Smith 4506-1 45 auto. Granted it was a cop gun and not a heavily used target piece but bore is a mirror and there is not a single sign of wear on any of the internals including the barrel locking lug.

These are very strong and reliable guns with good accuracy. And they will feed an empty case.

Tom

 

[jd70]

Not an obvious one Colt pocket in 32acp!

 

[rogertc1]

Smith & Wesson 617 holds 10 rounds!!! Great gun in compatition!! I have one and not over built at all.

Ruger fits the over built category

 

[Ky Larry]

My CZ-83 in .380 ACP. Built like a tank. Also my S&W 686. It just feels solid and substancial in my hand. My T/C Contender.

 

[Snowdog]

Steyr M40