Handguns vs. Tasers

[BBQLS1]

Not too long ago we had that video of the guy walking around with the taser barbs attached to his face. He swung a conduit bender and the police had to shoot.

Not saying tasers don't work. I bet in most cases they do. Looks to me you get one shot at 15 feet to get it right.

Not saying a firearm is a better solution either. Some people just aren't ready to take someone's life even if it means saving theirs or others.


A knife is a contact weapon.... IMO not very desireable.

Still, she needs to research and think heavily about the pros and cons of each. She needs to be realistic about each too.

 

[brickeyee]

Make sure it is even legal in your state.

And the non-police Tasers are not the same as the police models.

The firing units are also painfully expensive unless you have an agency to pay for them.

 

[Losov]

Then there's the stun gun, which does not require reload and can be used on multiple attackers, but is not without its shortcomings. It is a contact weapon for one and in my state it cannot be carried concealed even with a concealed carry permit (figure that one out!) It still comes back to pepper spray or a CCP with training and the right weapon.

 

[3KillerBs]

IMO, a pistol is a better choice.

A knife is nearly useless to an untrained person. And, unless she is an amazon, she will almost certainly be smaller and weaker than any male attacker. This fact of human biology makes a close contact weapon like a knife a poor choice for a woman.

A tazer is easily defeated by heavy clothing and I think its a bad idea to have to remain connected to an attacker by wires to keep him subdued rather than being able to incapacitate him and flee as you can with a pistol.

Also, though tazers appeal to those who doubt their ability to use a potentially lethal weapon I think this is a bad choice. IMO, it is those very people who find themselves unable to pull the trigger on a gun who will be least capable of continuing to press that button on the taser while they watch the attacker writhe in agony. This seems likely to leave them in the position of facing a no-longer-incapacitated and now-infuriated attacker while armed with nothing but their empty hands.

Either a knife or a taser would be better than nothing, but if she has completely ruled out a pistol I think that pepper spray would be a better option. With pepper spray she is likely to be able to incapacitate an attacker in a way that would allow her to flee rather than remain in close contact.

 

[Robert]

If she is more comfortable with a Taser then get her the best one she/ you can afford. Something is better than nothing. You can work her up to a handgun later if she becomes interested.

 

[Jaymo]

It was a C2 and it didn't impress me. I'm not a badass, but it wouldn't stop me from committing a violent act, if I were so inclined.
It was no more unpleasant than getting zapped by an ignition secondary lead.
I've always considered it to be kind of fun letting my buddies zap me with stun guns at gun shows.
In A&P school, we used to have fun with magnetos in recip engine class.
We'd wrap a line around the mag drive shaft and one person would yank it like a recoil starter while the rest of us would each grab and hold a lead as long as we can.
I never let go. I was the only one in class who could hold on.

I've also tested cattle prods on myself. Red, blue, and green. IIR.C, the red is the strongest.
It didn't hurt like the Taser, but it was more disruptive to my muscular functions

I'd rather trust something that will change a 2,000 pound bull's channel, than something that won't even stop a wuss like me.


You can't rely on electricity to stop someone. Everyone has a different internal electrical resistance.
Just one of those things you have to consider before trusting your life to a glorified stun gun.
I have a friend who isn't bothered by pepper spray. I didn't believe it until he had me spray him.
I'd much rather get hit with a taser than with pepper spray, but neither one works on everyone.

I never said Tasers were junk. You appear to be putting words in my mouth.
I said, after riding that lightning, that I was not impressed.

Not everyone is afraid of getting shocked. Especially with nonlethal current.
Fear of getting shocked is pounded into our heads from childhood.
Not all of us are afraid of it.
I've been shocked with 110 and 220 AC single phase, as well as 480 3 phase.
110 tickles.
220 is a bit unpleasant.
480 is very unpleasant and burns a bit.

Speaking of electricity, I need to go put on my TENS unit and "shock the monkey".

 

[Jim K]

Read and heed Brickeyee's warning. Even some states that have "shall issue" policies on gun carry ban carrying of Tasers or some knives, or both.

Jim

 

[Double Naught Spy]

My sister wants to buy a TASER, but I'm recommending against it. It seems to me that a handgun or small knife would be a superior weapon for self defense -- especially the types that shoot out two electrical clips. What are your opinions?

The knife may be her worst choice. Using a knife means having to be in close physical proximity to the threat, no more than an arm's legth away. She can't cut or stab that which she cannot reach.

Guns and tasers have the advantage of being stand-off weapons. You can shoot bad guys beyond your arm's reach.

Tell your sister, that the idiot she tasers will have a very bad grudge, considering it was a woman who brought him down,

LOL, this is a rather spurious concern. Unless dead, any use of a weapon against a bad guy could result in carrying a grudge and coming to find the intended victim.

By taser, you mean the thing that shoots out the barbs?

It's a compliance tool, not a self-defense tool.

The ride is different than the LEO Taser. Their design is made for compliance. Short jolt. Put the chap on the ground, get him cuffed or otherwise in custody, and try to do it without much injury. The jolt lasts about 5 seconds. Enough to get someone's body on the ground and make him do the funky chicken while your partner pounces on him and wraps him up.

I don't follow. Taser does not make the compliance distinction between models and bills all of them for self defense. The two non-C2 civilian models (M26c, X26c) perform like their police counterparts. The x26c delivers a 10 second jolt that can be changed to 30 seconds with addtional pulls of the trigger or can deliver a charge as long as the trigger is depressed.

It should be noted as well that Taser use for compliance isn't necessarily legal. The 9th District Federal Court ruled against Tasers being used for some types of compliance. In that case, a guy pulled over by the police failed to get back in his car when told to do so and so the officer tased him despite there being no threat from the driver. In fact, such use was unlawful.
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2009/12/28/08-55622.pdf
The M26c delivers a 5 second jolt, but continuous discharge can be made to occur by holding down the trigger for 5 seconds and the discharge will occur until trigger is released or it runs out of power. The LE X6 also delivers a 5 second jolt that can be repeated with more pulls on the trigger.

So while the C2 may be a defense only device with its 30 discharge, shorter duration models being used by the police for compliance problems, However, just because LE Tasers can/have/will be used for compliance ssues does not mean the Tasers aren't also for self defense.

 

[Kiln]

I don't know about tasers but I know for a fact that LEO power pepper spray will disable you for at least 15 minutes and is very uncomfortable for nearly an hour. Hopefully the wind isn't blowing or else you're likely to disable yourself as well though.

My wife bought some pepper spray and I told her "there's no way that crap actually works well enough to stop somebody". I then volunteered to let her shoot me with it. She wouldn't do it but my brother there and was willing. I let him shoot me directly in the face with it and I've got to say that it was pretty much instantly disabling. My eyes swelled shut in seconds, it was extremely hard to breathe, and I couldn't stop the burning no matter what I did.

I then jumped into the shower (DON'T DO IT) and in the process of trying to wash it off I managed to spread it all over my body, causing my entire body to take on a dark red, purple color and burn like hell. I called poison control and they said to dump milk on it to help stop the pain. So I rushed to the kitchen and grabbed a gallon of milk from the fridge, then went to the tub and doused myself in it. It helped VERY LITTLE.

For the next thirty minutes I laid curled up in the floor with a cold towel around me and eventually it stopped burning.

So to summarize, pepper spray will work as a defensive tool.

 

[Shoobee]

Never bring a knife to a gunfight.

A taser is a police weapon for subduing a suspect when there are several policemen present, and the decision is made to go with nonlethal force.

I don't know of a single policeman who would use his taser as a self defense weapon.

For self defense, the semi-automatic pistol is the most appropriate choice.

Because it's guaranteed, by Smith & Wesson and Colt.

 

[45_auto]

I don't know about tasers but I know for a fact that LEO power pepper spray will disable you for at least 15 minutes and is very uncomfortable for nearly an hour.

Better check your facts because they're wrong.

The local sheriff's department I'm with requires all officers to complete a pepper spray course before carrying pepper spray. The final segment in the course consists of getting sprayed in the eyes with the LEO-only pepper spray then completing a 3 station obstacle course. Station 1 is 15 seconds of hand strikes against a padded opponent, Station 2 is 15 seconds of leg strikes against a padded opponent, and Station 3 is 15 seconds of baton strikes against a padded opponent. While you're engaged in the baton strikes at Station 3 another opponent comes up behind you and tries to take your duty weapon, forcing you to execute retention tactics.

The reason for the course is to demonstrate that pepper spray does not necessarily incapacitate anyone. It's still their option whether they want to keep fighting or not. Anyone can force their eyes open for a second or so at a time and keep attacking. Everyone's performance was recorded and documented in case you ever had to go to court and explain why you had to use additional force against someone that had been pepper sprayed.

Nobody in the 20 person class when I went through had any trouble completing the course. I was the worst one affected by far, I couldn't force my eyes open except for a couple of seconds at a time for about 2 hours afterwards. The trainer had to wait around with me the whole time until I could force them open enough to drive home. One guy was completely unaffected by the stuff, might as well have thrown water in his face. Everyone else was affected in varying degrees, but everyone else could see normally within about half an hour at the most, and nobody had any problem completing the course.

You also have to complete a Taser course to carry a Taser. Part of it includes "riding the lightning" for 3 seconds. Not much fun at all. I wanted to yell "STOP" but couldn't move a muscle. I never saw anyone who wasn't completely immobilized for those 3 seconds. Good thing about it is that once it's over, you're immediately fine.

As others have said, I wouldn't advise carrying a Taser as your only defensive weapon. A bad contact or momentary loss of contact leaves a mad opponent in full fighting condition at close range.

 

[Kiln]

Better check your facts because they're wrong.

The local sheriff's department I'm with requires all officers to complete a pepper spray course before carrying pepper spray. The final segment in the course consists of getting sprayed in the eyes with the LEO-only pepper spray then completing a 3 station obstacle course. Station 1 is 15 seconds of hand strikes against a padded opponent, Station 2 is 15 seconds of leg strikes against a padded opponent, and Station 3 is 15 seconds of baton strikes against a padded opponent. While you're engaged in the baton strikes at Station 3 another opponent comes up behind you and tries to take your duty weapon, forcing you to execute retention tactics.

The reason for the course is to demonstrate that pepper spray does not necessarily incapacitate anyone. It's still their option whether they want to keep fighting or not. Anyone can force their eyes open for a second or so at a time and keep attacking. Everyone's performance was recorded and documented in case you ever had to go to court and explain why you had to use additional force against someone that had been pepper sprayed.

Nobody in the 20 person class when I went through had any trouble completing the course. I was the worst one affected by far, I couldn't force my eyes open except for a couple of seconds at a time for about 2 hours afterwards. The trainer had to wait around with me the whole time until I could force them open enough to drive home. One guy was completely unaffected by the stuff, might as well have thrown water in his face. Everyone else was affected in varying degrees, but everyone else could see normally within about half an hour at the most, and nobody had any problem completing the course.

You also have to complete a Taser course to carry a Taser. Part of it includes "riding the lightning" for 3 seconds. Not much fun at all. I wanted to yell "STOP" but couldn't move a muscle. I never saw anyone who wasn't completely immobilized for those 3 seconds. Good thing about it is that once it's over, you're immediately fine.

As others have said, I wouldn't advise carrying a Taser as your only defensive weapon. A bad contact or momentary loss of contact leaves a mad opponent in full fighting condition at close range.

It disabled me pretty damn well.

 

[45_auto]

It disabled me pretty damn well.

All depends on how much you want to continue to fight.

If you're looking for an excuse to stop, or you're not real dedicated to what you're fighting for, it'll easily "disable" you.

If someone is trying to kill or seriously injure you, or just sprayed you and is heading for your wife or kid with a knife, most people find a way to keep fighting.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Never bring a knife to a gunfight.

Generally a good rule, but there are those with knives that do manage to win them.

A taser is a police weapon for subduing a suspect when there are several policemen present, and the decision is made to go with nonlethal force.

Interesting, officers had to use a taser when their pistol shots were not effective enough...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skW8yiMfiEQ

I don't know of a single policeman who would use his taser as a self defense weapon.

For self defense, the semi-automatic pistol is the most appropriate choice.

Really? So if a police officer needs to protect him/herself, they should just shoot people?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgJF-nH01gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1O5LHOFhMI

Because it's guaranteed, by Smith & Wesson and Colt.

Wrong on several accounts.

 

[Kiln]

All depends on how much you want to continue to fight.

If you're looking for an excuse to stop, or you're not real dedicated to what you're fighting for, it'll easily "disable" you.

If someone is trying to kill or seriously injure you, or just sprayed you and is heading for your wife or kid with a knife, most people find a way to keep fighting.

Sorry, I forgot rule number "1" in my official unofficial forum survival guide. My bad.

Kiln's Official Unofficial Forum Survival Guide:

1. Everyone that will ever consider robbing you is a 250 lb bodybuilding crackhead with an insatiable thirst for blood and damn near bulletproof skin. Only semi auto bullets starting with a .4, revolver calibers containing the word magnum, or 12 guage shotguns will do for defense.

2. All firearms are bought for the purpose of defense or SHTF situations. Even if you specifically state that it is for target practice (aka plinking), somebody will bring up tactical use, concealed carry, and "stopping power" at some point in the thread.

3. Zombies are no joke, it can and WILL eventually happen. You're either prepared or you're undead, pick one.

4. Will this caliber kill (insert animal) will result in answers about grizzly bears or drug addicts. It is inevitable.

5. Zinc guns will not last 1k rounds before flying apart and blowing off your hand. Everyone has had a buddy who knew a guy who had an uncle that blew his hand off with a J22 and can now only drive an automatic.

6. If you don't know about something, fake it till you make it.

7. Almost everyone around here can shoot the ass off of a fly at 100 yards firing unsupported with their offhand during a blizzard that came during a freak sandstorm.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Kiln, there really is no reason to bring that type of post in here. 45 auto is saying the truth, that pepper spray will not stop everyone. There are plenty of people that are unaffected by it or that can work through it, and no, they are not all 250 lb bodybuilding crackheads.

Just because your experience differs from that of others doesn't mean you have to get defensive about it...

 

[Kiln]

Kiln, there really is no reason to bring that type of post in here. 45 auto is saying the truth, that pepper spray will not stop everyone. There are plenty of people that are unaffected by it or that can work through it, and no, they are not all 250 lb bodybuilding crackheads.

Just because your experience differs from that of others doesn't mean you have to get defensive about it...

I'm just saying I've seen plenty of people pepper sprayed and if you're hit in the eyes they swell shut within seconds. It burns like hell and is blinding. I'm not saying they'll instantly hit the ground but I seriously doubt that you'll be able to pursue anyone after being hit in the eyes with it.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I'm not saying they'll instantly hit the ground but I seriously doubt that you'll be able to pursue anyone after being hit in the eyes with it.

You? Maybe not. But not everyone is the same. The next guy might be able to shrug it off long enough to continue an assault.....

Here is a video just to show you that your doubts are misplaced.

 

[ultradoc]

what if she missed with the taser? It's not like you can fire again right away.

 

[45_auto]

It burns like hell and is blinding. I'm not saying they'll instantly hit the ground but I seriously doubt that you'll be able to pursue anyone after being hit in the eyes with it.

Go talk to any cop or MP and ask them about their OC training.

Couple of videos of what happens when people are sprayed directly in the eyes with police or military OC. You have to stand there and take it directly in the eyes. Good luck trying to get anything close to equivalent on a moving, fighting target who doesn't want to be sprayed.

This is similar to the training I had to do - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HFQKaz5XTc&feature=related

Military training video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEoFF7ty2eo&feature=related

Another cop training video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFS2c2Bw3Hg

If you want to believe that it totally disables someone, no big deal. Some people can learn from others, some have to find things out the hard way. Hopefully your learning experience won't cost you or anyone you care about their life.

But I'm just an internet commando, what do I know? Your forum survival rules have me figured out!