Handing over a long gun to a fellon

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Dozer86

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Here's my situation. A few years back a friend asked me to hold 2 long guns for him. He didn't want his son to be able to steal them. The son is a convicted felon. He took one back to get it appraised and another friend is holding it now.
Well my friend is now in hospice care .
The other friend contacted me about the gun. Telling me he had no problem giving the son the guns. Knowing he is a fellon. I'm not willing to give anything to a fellon. I'm not inclined to bend the law let alone break firearms laws.
I had thought about getting an appraisal and paying the son for it. But what if that is refused?
Also Michigan has changed the laws with regard to long guns. I'm not sure how that will affect things either.
Thoughts? Advice?
 
It was never the sons in the first place. Unless the firearm in question is some kind of family heirloom selling it and giving him the proceeds or paying the son fair market value for it seems the most reasonable course of action.

If it is a family heirloom find some other member of the family to give it to.

If you're considering actually transferring possession back to the son I'd consult an actual lawyer first.
 
It depends, here there is a State law that says a felon can have a firearm in their own home only. This after 5 years from the date of the conviction and of course not on probation or parole. Yes I know what Federal law says and I wonder how this can all play out...
 
Do not give, sell, or allow the son/felon to possess the firearm in any form.

II. KNOWINGLY SELL, GIVE OR OTHERWISE DISPOSE OF ANY FIREARM OR
AMMUNITION TO ANY PERSON WHO FALLS WITHIN ONE OF THE ABOVE
CATEGORIES:
18 USC § 922(d). Punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment.
See: https://www.justice.gov/file/411656/dl

As to Michigan allowing a felon to have a firearm "under certain conditions" ... that's his problem.
But giving, selling, or transferring possession of that firearm to him is your problem under federal law.

Meanwhile, consulting lawyer may be a coupla hundred bucks.
Cheap insurance.
 
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No way would I give him that gun.
Seems like if his dad wanted his son to have it he wouldn't have had you hold it to begin with.
If dad is still able to answer, ask him if he'd like you to pay the son for it or just keep it. But do not give it to the son.
 
Thoughts? Advice?
As far as Federal law is concerned, that is your gun, and you can't give, sell or otherwise transfer guns to felons. Michigan law says the same, essentially. This isn't a complicated situation. You can't legally transfer the gun to a felon. You can keep it or sell it and give him the money, but he can't have the gun.
 
Do not give, sell, or allow the son/felon to possess the firearm in any form.

II. KNOWINGLY SELL, GIVE OR OTHERWISE DISPOSE OF ANY FIREARM OR
AMMUNITION TO ANY PERSON WHO FALLS WITHIN ONE OF THE ABOVE
CATEGORIES:
18 USC § 922(d). Punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment.
See: https://www.justice.gov/file/411656/dl

As to Michigan allowing a felon to have a firearm "under certain conditions" ... that's his problem.
But giving, selling, or transferring possession of that firearm to him is your problem under federal law.

Meanwhile, consulting lawyer may be a coupla hundred bucks.
Cheap insurance.
I'll also add, that if someone complains about the apparent conflict between the state and federal law, they should refer to Article VI of the Constitution of the United States, which reads, in pertinent part:
"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."

 
Don't go to prison - I've worked there for 23 years and the food ain't getting better. If you knowingly and willingly break the law transferring a firearm to a felon, you might just find out of orange is your color or not. If you just want to be shut of the whole thing, transfer the gun to an FFL, (if one will get involved), and tell the son where it is. Then the FFL will have the option of selling the gun and giving a portion of the proceeds to the son or transferring it to him IF he know meets the legal criteria, and you are 100% out of it with no skin in the game and no money to blame.
 
Short answer
No way would I have anything to do
with enabling a known felon to
obtain a firearm, no matter what
ill feelings or ugly words I had to
bear from anybody.
If you did it, you'll eventually be a
a felon yourself. Screw that
 
Owner is in hospice.

Owner will be dead soon.

Turn the gun over to the verified Executor of the estate after the proposed Executor "qualifies" as Executor with the court.
Nobody is Executor just because they are named in a will. The proposed Executor has to qualify with the court before the Executor can perform any official functions.

In the unlikely event that a prohibited person qualifies as Executor tell the prohibited person that you will meet them at a time-certain at the police department, where they can make their demand for the estate property in front of the watch commander.

Then surrender the firearm for good.
 
Thoughts? Advice?
One, Welcome to THR. Please feel free to visit the New Members Introduction thread at your convenience.
Second, as pointed out above 18 USC 922(d) Unlawful Acts
(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person, including as a juvenile
(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
As Federal statute this applies to all 50 States.

Note that this is beyond ownership, a "transfer" occurs just bey letting a Prohibited Person hold the prohibited item or items even temporarily. So, even if G-men don't leap immediately out of the bushes with cuffs, a crime will still have occurred.

Also, information published online, like within THR, is in the "public record."
 
Turn the gun over to the verified Executor of the estate after the proposed Executor "qualifies" as Executor with the court.
Nobody is Executor just because they are named in a will. The proposed Executor has to qualify with the court before the Executor can perform any official functions.
Interesting as I never had to qualify for my mom
 
If your friend would happen to pass before this is resolved, I would give the guns to the executor of the will, or the probate attorney. I would retain them, unless presented with legal documents directing you to do otherwise.
 
Talk to the owner first. He may just say for you to keep it, which solves the problem.

If he wants to give it back to his son, bring it back to him and let him do the giving. Onus is on him, not you, to dispose of his property.

If he is incapable, before he passes give it to his power of attorney, or if he passes, the executor if the will/trust to deal with. (Just spent 14 months doing that with Mom’s estate.)

No reason to get sucked in to estate drama just trying to be a good friend.

Stay safe.
 
Here's my situation. A few years back a friend asked me to hold 2 long guns for him. He didn't want his son to be able to steal them. The son is a convicted felon. He took one back to get it appraised and another friend is holding it now.
Well my friend is now in hospice care .
The other friend contacted me about the gun. Telling me he had no problem giving the son the guns. Knowing he is a fellon. I'm not willing to give anything to a fellon. I'm not inclined to bend the law let alone break firearms laws.
I had thought about getting an appraisal and paying the son for it. But what if that is refused?
Also Michigan has changed the laws with regard to long guns. I'm not sure how that will affect things either.
Thoughts? Advice?
Update
He passed the night that I posted. Before I found that out.
I contacted the attorney general office
Here's my situation. A few years back a friend asked me to hold 2 long guns for him. He didn't want his son to be able to steal them. The son is a convicted felon. He took one back to get it appraised and another friend is holding it now.
Well my friend is now in hospice care .
The other friend contacted me about the gun. Telling me he had no problem giving the son the guns. Knowing he is a fellon. I'm not willing to give anything to a fellon. I'm not inclined to bend the law let alone break firearms laws.
I had thought about getting an appraisal and paying the son for it. But what if that is refused?
Also Michigan has changed the laws with regard to long guns. I'm not sure how that will affect things either.
Thoughts? Advice?
 
Update
He passed the night that I posted. Before I found that out.
I contacted the attorney general office
They let me know that a felon can have their record expunged. But wait there's more. After that they can go through a process to get their ability to possess a firearm back. The advised I contact the state police.
They basically told me to meet him at the sheriff's department. To have him do the background check to possess it. If he passes it super. If not well I may buy it or sell it for him. I don't really want it but..
 
The POSSIBILITY of a felon successfully having his record expunged so as to no longer be a prohibited person is a legal reality.

The LIKELIHOOD of it actually happening is infinitessimally small.
I'm sure Martha Stewart could get her records expunged . I'm wondering if the type of felony that was committed makes a difference.
 
The POSSIBILITY of a felon successfully having his record expunged so as to no longer be a prohibited person is a legal reality.

The LIKELIHOOD of it actually happening is infinitessimally small.
Also please keep in mind that in many states an expungment of a felony conviction does not restore firearms rights. Here is an example from California's expungement statute (Quoted in pertinent part from California Penal Code section 1203.4):

"Dismissal of an accusation or information pursuant to this section does not permit a person to own, possess, or have custody or control of a firearm or to prevent conviction under Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) of Division 9 of Title 4 of Part 6."
 
I'm sure Martha Stewart could get her records expunged . I'm wondering if the type of felony that was committed makes a difference.
Stewart was convicted in federal court. She would need a presidential pardon, if she wanted her record cleared.
 
They let me know that a felon can have their record expunged. But wait there's more. After that they can go through a process to get their ability to possess a firearm back.
True.


The advised I contact the state police.
State police have absolutely nothing to do with federal law.


They basically told me to meet him at the sheriff's department. To have him do the background check to possess it. If he passes it super. If not well I may buy it or sell it for him. I don't really want it but..
Follow that advice and you'll get to meet your future cellmate.
 
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