Handloading 380auto for Accuracy

[Artofgolf]

Not bad for an old fella

Nice shootin' there Walkalong - can you do it with 380 ACP?
I'd really like to see a work-up with a quality bullet using Zip
(Can't find any ZIP in my neck of the woods)

 

[Walkalong]

can you do it with 380 ACP?

If the gun was as accurate as this accurized Colt, with a red dot, on a good day, maybe.

 

[Artofgolf]

If the gun was as accurate as this accurized Colt, with a red dot, on a good day, maybe.

Good to know, as we have been beatin' the 380 Auto to death in this thread.
I've sent a handful of the 100g Berry's HBFP's to MstrEddy for additional Wharfy testing.
It would be nice to see a lil' Zip behind those pills.....

Nice pistol, BTW

 

[jell-dog]

HP-38 Powder Tests

For those asking "where did you get your load data?":
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9769824&postcount=60

My results for HP-38 powder

Basic info: Here are the guidelines I will be using: 7 yards, standing, open sights, no pistol rest, target has 1/2" grid lines, 5 rounds at each powder weight.
I will be shooting a BERSA FIRESTORM 380 with 3 1/2" barrel for all range work, using the 2 bullets I have on hand:100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN & 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN.

My definition of Good Accy is 1.5" group or less.
My definition of Fair Accy is over 1.5" group up to 1.75" group.
My definition of Poor Accy is is over 1.75" group.
My definition of Flyers is shooter error, not holding steady on target, so I will give my opinions on accuracy based on best of 4 out of 5 shots where there are obvious Flyers outside the group.

Below Left: HP-38_2.6gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, Start load, Mild recoil, Poor Accy, Group 2.0" W/Flyers
Below Right: HP-38_2.6gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Start load, Mod.recoil, Fair Accy, Group 3.0" W/Flyer, 1.5" WO/Flyer


Below Left: HP-38_2.8gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, Mod.recoil, Good Accy, Group 2.5" W/Flyer, 1.5" WO/Flyer
Below Right: HP-38_2.8gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Mod.recoil, Poor Accy, Group 3.25" W/Flyer, 2.75" WO/Flyer


Below Left: HP-38_3.0gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, Mod.Snapy recoil, Good Accy, Group 2.5" W/Flyer, 1.5" WO/Flyer
Below Right: HP-38_3.0gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Mod.recoil, Good Accy, Group 1.75" W/Flyer, 1.25" WO/Flyer


My next post will be with TITEGROUP powder

 

[mstreddy]

Walkalong, that is some outstanding shooting.
I knew you had some experience with Zip. And that's a beautiful Colt.

Art, I don't have Zip, but I have W231. Given Walk's thoughts on it being similar to Zip it should be some good testing. When I get those bullets in, I'll get to testing them in the Wharf Rat, but you know I'll have to put some through the Sig 238 too.

 

[jell-dog]

I might be back on computer

"Computer guy" may have fixed problem, I'm testing

More 380 information from around the web

CAUTION: The following links include posts of non-published loading data testing this and other cartridges. These are posts by others on the internet or other gun related forum threads. They contain loading data tested in their guns chambered for 380auto and other calibers.
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Neither the writer, THR members, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

THR Forum: New to loading-need advice 380 loading

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=707062

The Firing Line Forums: Bersa T 380 and Cast Bullets

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451356

Reloading Ammunition by By Mike Coviello (Tanner)

http://www.tannersbrass.com/380-acp-recipe.aspx

The Ruger Forum: 380 Reloading Recipes

http://rugerforum.net/reloading/89310-380-reloading-recipes.html

 

[Artofgolf]

....Art, I don't have Zip, but I have W231. Given Walk's thoughts on it being similar to Zip it should be some good testing.
When I get those bullets in, I'll get to testing them in the Wharf Rat, but you know I'll have to put some through the Sig 238 too.

Glad to see this post It's interesting to see how we are on the same wavelength about the 100g FP's from Berry's; that W231 is a good proxy for Zip
I'm curious how well they work in the Sig 238 also.... thanks, Walkalong for chiming in

Expected Delivery Day: Friday, January 23, 2015
Product & Tracking Information Postal Product: Priority Mail 2-Day™ USPS Tracking™

Sonar & radar on for Ramshot ZIP

 

[jell-dog]

Priority "2 Day" mail change

Start of rant

FWIW, I picked up some SFRB's and MFRB's @ local post office, they are now printing "3 Day" priority delivery on the boxs.
Talking with a clerk, the Postmaster General along with the USPS Board of Governors implemented a lower standard of delivery FOR ALL CLASSES OF MAIL to "save the postal service"!!

Yep, that's what every buisness does isn't it?
Reduce service to save the bottom line?!?!

As a 30 year letter carrier (retired) I am disappointed in the degradation of service.

Be assured, your letter carrier (mailman) is just as discouraged by this move as you are.

After all, the letter carrier gets to hear your prase or complaints, not management.

Done with rant

Alot of great reloaders posting on this thread!
Thanks for all input

 

[joneb]

I have found this band or ring in other headstamps but mostly SPEER.

Me to, I did a mod. on the expander plug.

RCBS has sent me expander plugs, I have extras for 9x18 mak and .357 mag.

 

[jell-dog]

Me to, I did a mod. on the expander plug.
View attachment 207253
RCBS has sent me expander plugs, I have extras for 9x18 mak and .357 mag.

NICE!
Does it stop the bulging of the brass when you expand & bell B4 you seat your bullet?
Do you have your own machine shop?
Thanks for the tip, I think alot of reloaders will be interested in your RCBS expander mod!

 

[joneb]

Does it stop the bulging of the brass when you expand & bell B4 you seat your bullet?

I noticed the step in the Speer cases, and also found it in Federal cases with Federal spelled out on the stamp it was not present in Federal cases with the F-C stamp.

The Speer case was expanded with the stock RCBS die, the two Federal cases were expanded with the modified RCBS expander plug, notice on the Speer case that the bulge is closer to the case head this is not from the seated bullet but from the unmodified plug.
PS,
I would be surprised if RCBS was not aware of this issue, call them.
If for some reason I decide to use a bullet that seats further in the case I will get a stock plug.

I was confused by my COL of .917" anything longer would stove pipe in the barrel chamber. I will revisit this a may have missed something, the gun functions well with factory RN FMJ.

Well I think I gotter figured out I can run these 100gr Extreme Plated FP's @ .945-.950" not sure how I missed that

 

[Walkalong]

NICE!
Does it stop the bulging of the brass when you expand & bell B4 you seat your bullet?
Do you have your own machine shop?
Thanks for the tip, I think alot of reloaders will be interested in your RCBS expander mod!

Not if you seat the bullet past the step.

His modded expander plug (Very nice) stops from over expanding the case below the step, but if you seat a bullet below the step, it will do the same thing, cause a bulge.

 

[jell-dog]

Not if you seat the bullet past the step.

His modded expander plug (Very nice) stops from over expanding the case below the step, but if you seat a bullet below the step, it will do the same thing, cause a bulge.

Understood Walkalong!
Those with RCBS expansion dies that are having problems with bulging their cases may have found a solution with this mod?
For seating 100gr and heavier bullets?
IMHO I think the 100gr and heavier bullets is where the bulging problem may take place.

Unless RCBC comes up with an expander plug that doesn't go so deep it expands the case past where the sidewalls thicken at the head of the brass?
Past where a 90gr to 100gr bullet seats?

All these questions ASSUME that a reloader has a working cartridge length close to SAMMI.

 

[jell-dog]

I noticed the step in the Speer cases, and also found it in Federal cases with Federal spelled out on the stamp it was not present in Federal cases with the F-C stamp.
View attachment 207255
The Speer case was expanded with the stock RCBS die, the two Federal cases were expanded with the modified RCBS expander plug, notice on the Speer case that the bulge is closer to the case head this is not from the seated bullet but from the unmodified plug.
PS,
I would be surprised if RCBS was not aware of this issue, call them.
If for some reason I decide to use a bullet that seats further in the case I will get a stock plug.

Well I think I gotter figured out I can run these 100gr Extreme Plated FP's @ .945-.950" not sure how I missed that

joneb,
Glad you found a longer working cartridg overall length!
Nice photos too.

 

[joneb]

Glad you found a longer working cartridge overall length!

As am I, that step in the Federal cases pissed me off I don't know why the RCBS expander goes so deep I didn't feel comfortable with the set back potential. With the modified expander plug I can seat with a light crimp at .950" with no set back while letting the slide fly, the bullet does show a flat spot where it hits the top of the chamber.
I don't recall these obstacles when loading for 9x18 Mak. even with using trimmed 9x19 brass, but I did get another expander plug from RCBS and turned it down as bullet diameters range from .363-.365" for the Makarov.
PS
Every day is a new day, sometimes

 

[jell-dog]

As am I, that step in the Federal cases pissed me off I don't know why the RCBS expander goes so deep I didn't feel comfortable with the set back potential. With the modified expander plug I can seat with a light crimp at .950" with no set back while letting the slide fly, the bullet does show a flat spot where it hits the top of the chamber.
I don't recall these obstacles when loading for 9x18 Mak. even with using trimmed 9x19 brass, but I did get another expander plug from RCBS and turned it down as bullet diameters range from .363-.365" for the Makarov.
PS
Every day is a new day, sometimes

joneb,
I'm having the "bulge" problem when I use my BRAND NEW Lyman "M" die!
Instructions say can be used for .380, 9mm and .38APC.(not to be confused with.38spl).
Works great when loading uncoated lead bullets in 9mm, so I thought I would try it to load uncoated .356 lead bullets in .380auto.

Thought wrong!

May have to try your expander modification to make it work for.380auto.
I'll wait till I get serious about loading uncoated lead bullets in my .380 before I do though.

 

[joneb]

May have to try your expander modification to make it work for.380auto.

I have not tried it yet, it's my bomb let me blow it up first
The battle of the bulge continues.........
PS
I don't even know what a M die is

 

[joneb]

Keep in mind I have 5 rounds of 380acp experience, which were likely in the +P zone. I would think twice about that.

 

[jell-dog]

I have not tried it yet, it's my bomb let me blow it up first
The battle of the bulge continues.........
PS
I don't even know what a M die is

A Lyman "M" die is an expansion die that has the expansion plug ground with a short step at the top (approximately 1/16" long) just before the chamfer that bells the brass.

This step expands the case mouth to the diameter of the lead bullet.

The expansion the step gives to the brass allows the reloader to set the lead bullet into the case mouth slightly so (hopefully) you don't shave lead and lube off the sides of the lead bullet while seating, and don't sacrifice neck tension.

Also, I have been able to adjust the "M" die when expanding 9mm brass to load lead so that I need very little actual bell to seat a bullet without shaving lead off of the bullet.

Hope this helps!

Walkalong, jump in and correct me if I'm off base with this explanation of how an "M" die works.
Thanks!

 

[jell-dog]

Keep in mind I have 5 rounds of 380acp experience, which were likely in the +P zone. I would think twice about that.

Thanks!
I'll keep your experience with .380auto in mind

 

[Artofgolf]

If you guys like the Berry's HBRN 100g bullets, the seconds are on sale for $75 for 1K (7.5 cents per pill)
If you spend over $75, you get free shipping
http://berrysmfg.com/product-i15192-c129-g8-b0-p0-380_356_100gr_HBRN___1000ct_Second.aspx

 

[mstreddy]

ArtOfGolf

You are a true Gent -- I received not only the 20 bullets, but 20 brand new cases too -- and Starline to boot!

Now, you have me nervous to live up to your standard!
And, yeah, I ordered some of those Berry's HBRN and got them yesterday. I hope they're good - picked up 3K. At that price, I couldn't pass it up.

Thanks again for being a true GENT!

 

[mstreddy]

JoneB,
Since you are fairly new at the 380 loads, pay some attention to what BDS, ArtOfGolf, Wlkjr, Jell-Dog, and I have done with the short 9. We may not be "experts", but it's probably easier to follow some of our paths instead of blazing your own.

And, feel free to ask anything.

 

[mstreddy]

OK, since I have 3 different bullets to play with, here are the length specs.
Berry's 100gr HBFN courtesy of ArtOfGolf Length .4505" == sample of 3
Berry's 100gr HBRN 2nds from Berry's == .4705" sample of 3
Xtreme 100gr RNFP == .431" sample of 3

So, the hollow base bullets are longer bullets by .020 and .040 respectively when compared to the Xtremes. I don't have any of the Berry's Flat base anymore, so I can't compare those.

 

[jell-dog]

If you guys like the Berry's HBRN 100g bullets, the seconds are on sale for $75 for 1K (7.5 cents per pill)
If you spend over $75, you get free shipping
http://berrysmfg.com/product-i15192-c129-g8-b0-p0-380_356_100gr_HBRN___1000ct_Second.aspx

Thanks for heads up Artofgolf!
I've got 1K 100gr RNFB's coming, really sweet shootin' bullet in the Bersa Firestorm!

I had mentioned above that FELT recoil was less with the Berry's HBRN with the same powder charge as a flat based round nose.
I had loaded both bullets to the same COL.
After going over my raw notes for this thread, I found a definite pattern confirming this.

In my gun anyway

This is not scientific evidence by any means, just a trend I found after loading/shooting 120 Berry's 100gr HBRN VS 120 FRONTIER 100gr RN with flat bases.

I am going to continue talking notice of this trend whenever I load flat base VS HBRN using same powder charge and COL.