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Harvard students violate victim disarmament law: Rape expert dismayed

Discussion in 'Legal' started by atek3, Oct 20, 2004.

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  1. atek3

    atek3 Member

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  2. JPL

    JPL Member

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    Years ago it was illegal for people to carry mace or pepper spray in Washington, DC.

    My wife was working in DC part time at a clinic in an area where a rapist was active, so the clinic director had a police officer come in to talk about ways to prevent rape.

    The officer told the women to go across the river to Virginia and buy pepper spray, that they couldn't buy it in Washington, DC, because it was illegal to either buy or carry, but that it was a lot better to be potentially charged with a misdemeanor than it would be to be raped.

    The only modicum of respect I have for most police is for that officer.
     
  3. Lupine

    Lupine Member

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    So much for an Ivy League education.

    Bet those who were attacked or raped thought otherwise. It's amazing what a little reality check can do to change your attitude.

    There is a lot of truth, however, in the "it can be used against you" thing. If you don't know how to use it, if you're totally unaware, you're toast.

    Students should be taught the truths about self-defense while their minds are still pliable. That's Moore's tactic--getting them while they're young and idealistic.
     
  4. parados

    parados Member

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    Its amazing... the lengths to which the "law" will go to strip people of their basic right of self defense.

    I know there are some powerful lobby groups in Washington DC - The "Murderer/Rapist Lobby Group" must be one of the most influential over there... the way they pass laws like that.
     
  5. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    that sounds like a funny idea. register a domain like associationofrapistsandmurderers.org and send fake press releases and letters commending certain politicians for passing occupational safety laws such as gun bans :)

    atek3
     
  6. SMLE

    SMLE Member

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    Personally, I think that anyone who tells a woman not to fight back against a rapist should be shot in the head. :fire:

    In fact I will apply that sentiment to ALL anti self defence twits. The whole "don't fight back" paradigm is what has caused the high crime rates we have. Anyone who says you shouldn't fight back is pro-crime and is therefore a criminal by association. If every citizen in this country would adpot a fight like hell attitude it would do more to reduce crime than any of the feel good BS laws they could ever pass.

    Get the best weapon you can, learn how to use it to the best of your ability and when confronted by a criminal, fight back with everything you've got. Do your absloute best to kill the momser. I may get killed myself trying, but there will be meat under my finger nails and blood in my mouth when they find me(and a lot of empty 40 cal. brass on the ground too).

    In the words of Admiral Halsey; "Kill the bastards! The kill more of the bastards!"
     
  7. MP5

    MP5 Member

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    My first good laugh of the day.
     
  8. critter

    critter Member

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    There are several self defense options. Some emit a noxious gas (like pepper spray). Some make a loud noise (like whistles). Some have a bright light (zenon bulbs).

    I prefer one that does all three: emits clouds of gas, makes a noise and emits light. My Ruger SP101 in .357 Mag does all three quite nicely!!!!!!!
     
  9. MP5

    MP5 Member

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    My second good laugh of the day :)
     
  10. OF

    OF Member

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    Sounds like some people starting to wake the hell up that article. And the authorities trying to put them back to sleep.

    - Gabe

    Here's the article:


    Published on Monday, October 18, 2004

    Students Carry Mace Illegally

    By LIZ C. GOODWIN
    Contributing Writer


    When living in Cambridge last summer, Brittani S. Head ’06 carried pepper spray to ease the late-night walk home, halfway to Central Square.
    “During the summer the campus is much more deserted, and carrying the pepper spray made me feel a lot safer,†Head said.

    Many students on campus purchased self-defense chemicals in the wake of more than a dozen sexual assaults in the vicinity of the campus last year, despite the fact that carrying mace or pepper spray is illegal without the proper license.

    Head, who no longer carries the spray, said that she was vaguely aware of the law against carrying mace without a license, but felt that her safety was more important.

    “I think it’s kind of a stupid law,†she said.

    To legally carry mace or any chemical irritant in Massachusetts, you must obtain a valid firearm identification card (FID)—a process which, in Cambridge, requires proof of U.S. citizenship, proof of Cambridge residence, fingerprinting and background checks. There is a fee of $25 for the license and an extra $20 fingerprinting fee.

    “It’s a dangerous chemical if used improperly,†Harvard University Police Department (HUPD) spokeswoman Peggy McNamara said. “You can blind and permanently impair people with it.

    Police officers all have to be personally sprayed with it to understand the impact of it.â€

    A junior in Dunster began carrying mace last winter, after a student was assaulted in the parking lot of St. Paul’s Church.

    “I felt like that could have happened to any of us,†said the junior, who spoke on condition of anonymity because she knew the mace possession was illegal. “So my blockmates and I ordered pepper spray on keychains over eBay.â€

    The junior said that the mace, for which none of the students had a license, makes her feel more confident walking the streets, and reminds her to be aware of her surroundings.

    Prompted by two recent rapes in the Mission Hill and Jamaica Plain neighborhoods, the Boston Police Licensing Division stayed open late, earlier this month, to field increased demand for licenses to carry chemical irritants.

    Susan Marine, director of the Office of Sexual Assault Response and Prevention, said she has seen an increased student interest in obtaining mace over the past few weeks, possibly due to these same rapes.

    “If people call us about how to get mace, we refer them to the police,†Marine said. “We don’t take a stance on mace either way, but I understand it’s very controversial because it is often used against the victim in assaults.â€

    Others started carrying spray for personal reasons. Annelisa H. Pedersen ’06 said she carries pepper spray to protect herself from a potentially dangerous ex-boyfriend.

    “I don’t know if I should be carrying this around because you have to have a firearm ID card,†Pedersen said. “I’m from Georgia where it’s completely legal if you’re over 18.â€

    Pedersen said she didn’t even realize mace was illegal in Massachusetts until she tried to board a plane, forgetting about the mace hanging on her keychain.

    “A policeman talked to me at the airport, but I didn’t get into any trouble,†Pedersen said. “I just think it’s more important to be able to defend yourself.â€

    Coalition Against Sexual Assault Board Member Laura E. Openshaw ’05 said that the process of getting an FID is too difficult.

    “Mace is primarily a defense weapon,†Openshaw said. “A fee and fingerprinting seem extreme.â€

    McNamara urged students to explore self-defense alternatives to mace and other chemical irritants.

    “We sell shrill alarms for ten dollars, you could carry a whistle, or take Rape Aggression Defense classes,†McNamara said. “Travel in groups, walk in well-lit areas. The shuttle service and the walking escort services are all ways to stay safe.â€

    Some students feel so safe that they’ve ignored mace sent by concerned family members.

    “I don’t carry around the mace my parents gave me because I haven’t even thought about it,†Tiffany T. Niver ’08 said. “I feel safe and it wouldn’t even be natural to carry around. It wodn’t be much use in the bottom of my bag anyway, if I did get attacked.â€

    “My mother sent me up a new can of pepper spray, but I just haven’t carried it,†Head said.
     
  11. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    If I hear one more alleged "self defense expert" suggest that women ought to be out in public only with large groups and only in well lit areas with a whistle, I'm going to barf.

    In fact, I think I'll barf just on principle anyway.


    You can't argue with the advice per se, it's good, but what you can and should argue with is the implication that it is sufficient, and that any additional means are extraneous.

    Men, women, and responsible children have the right to walk in peace wherever they will, in groups, alone, in darkness or in light, and if it takes a can of mace or a handgun to make it safe, then so be it.

    To suggest otherwise is to endorse the notion that the extent of our prerogatives are justly circumscribed by criminals, which are regularly found in dark alleys and legislatures.
     
  12. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    I knew there was a reason I would never visit MA...

    Also, if carrying around mace is a misdemeanor, what about other spray products, such as cleaners or insect killers, that may cause serious injuries to an attacker? While they don't come in small cannisters like mace, I'm trying to imagine some housewife getting busted for having a small can of oven cleaner...
     
  13. txgho1911

    txgho1911 Member

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    Barrel encapsulated

    Flash Bang.
    Is that what you mean Critter?
    Mine is less flash and more loud bang in the .45 barrel.
     
  14. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    atek3 - I like your idea! :evil: :neener:
     
  15. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

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    Hey, golly. The Campus Police sell "Shrill Alarms" for $10.

    All is well.

    You might wish to e-mail the editor letters@thecrimson.com

    Rick
     
  16. BenW

    BenW Member

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    Not being a police officer, I would ask those LEOs here what they think of this statement. If nothing else, if it were that dangerous (and I know it's not pleasant), would police unions let their members be sprayed with it? On the face of it, this woman is either a liar or ignorant.

    And so much for situational awareness.....
     
  17. Dave R

    Dave R Member

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    Sounds like at least one student can think.
     
  18. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    I guess from this we can infer that all police officers in Massachusetts are either blind or impaired?

    It is correct that in MA one cannot legally carry chemical spray without a permit, but I have never understood how they manage to force a simple aerosol dispenser under a firearms law. What's next, will citizens of MA need an FID to use pre-packaged whipped cream?
     
  19. ssr

    ssr Member

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    Yeah. I like that one too. It's so dangerous that citizens shouldn't carry it because you could permanently injure somebody, but yeah, we spray all our police officers with it so they understand it's effects. :rolleyes:

    Illegal to carry spray in Mass. without license? What is up with some of these places in the US?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2004
  20. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    They must have a lot of sand in MA for so many people to be able to fit their heads in at once.
     
  21. NHBB

    NHBB Member

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    we are talking about a state that gives out a 5 year mandatory prison sentence for carrying concealed without a permit... there is no sense down there and the last few comments just goes to show the general attitude of the commonwealth populace.
     
  22. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Member

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    Since they're disregarding the FID requirement, and breaking the law anyway, why not carry a gun? Yeah, I know, that's too simple.

    And the cops will look the other way for chemical sprays, but for something really effective....
     
  23. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    If they don't approve of pepper spray, why not just fill a small container with gasoline and carry a lighter? That would be legal even in Mass.
     
  24. jnojr

    jnojr Member

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    I'll bet she still hates guns and thinks they should be banned or tunred into modern sculpture or something.
     
  25. hvengel

    hvengel Member

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    A few years ago in California they required a permit to purchase/carry pepper spray/tear gas/Mase. It was simple to get as you only had to watch a 15 minute video at the place that sold the stuff, there was no fee (or ony a very small one), it did not expire and it was issued on the spot. They repealed that law about 7 or 8 years ago because they realized how dumb it was. And this was in California!
     
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