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Has anyone been stopped by a leo before

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by klutchless, Mar 15, 2011.

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  1. klutchless

    klutchless Member

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    I was carrying open in my local grocery and there aparently was some type of situation in the front were police were called and I didnt notice it at first no lights and sirens or anything I beleive it was someone stealing a candybar or somthing and when i waiked to the front to pay for my stuff the officer noticed my weapon and proceeded to batter me with questions as to why I had a gun and he was very pushy and rude. I have never dealt with this issue with a officer and what anyone elses experiances were. He might have simply been doing his job but with the questions it seemed to be a attack of sorts on me personally.:mad:
     
  2. Robert

    Robert Moderator Staff Member

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    Nope, I have carried a rifle in the grocery store before and no one took notice.
     
  3. cleardiddion

    cleardiddion Member

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    I've been pretty good with officer interactions so far when OCing (at least in CO).
    1st time was when I got pulled over on the north side of Longmont and the sheriff didn't even bat an eye at it.
    The second time I was up in Lyons for Good Ol' Days and ran into a couple. The only question that they had was what I was carrying and how it shot and all that jazz.

    A negative interaction (whether real or as percieved by the person) is bound to happen to everyone but like I said I've been lucky so far.
     
  4. klutchless

    klutchless Member

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    I have been stopped by state troopers and local sheriffs before and they never mentioned anything more than can i see your permit. But this officer asked for my id my permit what vehical was mine why i thought i needed a gun who my friend was in the car if i had any speeding tickets how many rounds my gun carried did i know the diference between open carry and conceled carry whether or not i knew that by practicing open carry I could insight public panic who was my instructor for my permit just alot of uncalled for questioning that for the majority i refused to answer which seemed to draw more.He backed off when I started asking badge number and to see his id which i have the right to in OHIO.
     
  5. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    3 times.

    Once in a shopping mall. Two real police officers mentioned to me the mall was private property and that firearms were prohibited there by the property owners, but if I concealed my gun there would be no problems, so I concealed it and thanked them for the information.

    Second time was in preparation for being in a parade for children with disabilities with my wife and daughter (daughter has an amputation.) It was in the middle of Seattle. Cop approached me in the park and asked if I knew about the controversy about guns in Seattle parks. I told him I did (the mayor had enacted an illegal gun ban against state law that was later struck down by the Washington courts). He asked if I would conceal it, I did because I wasn't so sure about carrying a gun IN a parade anyway.

    Third time I was eating dinner in a restaurant. Cop asks me to go outside. Being young and foolish I obliged. For 10 minutes he lectured me about open carrying. He threatened to have my Concealed Pistol License revoked, which (1) he had no authority to revoke and (2) had absolutely nothing to do with the situation because I was open carrying which does not require a permit. Finally I told him to either write me a citation for breaking whatever law he thought I was breaking, or I was going back into the restaurant to finish eating.

    He handed my ID and CPL back to me and followed me back in the restaurant. Then he shows up at my table with an 18 year old waitress in tow behind him and tells me I have to leave. So I paid for my meal and left...still open carrying the whole time.

    I hand delivered a letter to the restaurant the next day. In response to my letter, before I even got home, the owner had called and profusely apologized. She said the restaurant had not called the police. She said it was not their desire that the police remove me. They had no problems at all with people carrying firearms for self-protection and invited me, my friends and my family, and our firearms to come back. A customer had called 911 about a man with a gun and the cop acted on his own accord.

    I wrote an email to the Chief of Police expressing my outrage that his officers were interfering with a business's law abiding customers, against the business owner's wishes. We arranged for an open carry luncheon at the restaurant the next weekend, the Chief of Police and his officers were invited to join us socially, and were also warned that we would be lawfully present on private property in violation of no laws and that any action on any of his officer's part to remove us from the private property would result in court action.

    The restaurant got about 14 of us for lunch, +family and friends, and the cops never showed up and have never bothered an open carrier again in our small town.

    After my experiences and talking with others, the best thing you can do when approached by a police officer is to first ask if you are being detained. If the answer is no, then kindly tell the officer you do not desire to have an interaction with him and either leave, or ask that he leave you alone. Never "step aside" with the officer - make him do his business in public, with witnesses. If you are being detained, then he must have reasonable and articulable suspicion of a crime being committed and by forcing him to tell you that you are being detained, you have put the burden of proof on him to prove his RAS in court. If you don't ask, and you simply comply with the officer, and you want to go to court later, then the burden of proof is on you to prove that you were actually detained rather than just voluntarily cooperating with the officer.
     
  6. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Oh.. and #4.... I was stopped for speeding. After the officer checked my driver's license he asked me to exit the vehicle. I did, with my openly carried PT-145 clearly visible on my belt. I walked back to between our vehicles where he was waiting. He explained he was going to let me go with a warning, but didn't want to lecture me in front of my wife and the kids in the car. I thanked him, and returned to my vehicle. I am sure he had to see my gun, but never mentioned it. My Washington CPL is not tied to my Wyoming driver's license, so he had no way of knowing if I had a license to carry or not. (And neither did the two cops in the mall either, for that matter).
     
  7. klutchless

    klutchless Member

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    I know leos are individuals . I was just curious of what other peoples experiances were in the bad experiance with a leo .
     
  8. klutchless

    klutchless Member

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    Thanks for the great input Navy LT I let the officer have control when he had no reason to detain me lesson learned.
     
  9. hermannr

    hermannr Member

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    I mostly open carry (or at least that is what I call it) in a fully enclosed hunting holster. (I have been told that it could be considered concealed carry because you cannot see the weapon, just the holster).

    The only thing that has ever been said to me was I need to be carefull not to incite at "man with a gun" call to 911 from someone that does not know the law. Yes, the empty holster did that one day.
     
  10. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    The hardest part about a hostile LEO encounter while open carrying is to remain confident of your knowledge and actions. As law abiding citizens, we've been conditioned all our lives to cooperate with the police, and it takes a lot of willpower to verbally disagree with an officer in public, let alone defying a request.

    That is the most important thing to remember: You've done nothing wrong. As long as you remain confident of your stance, the rest of the encounter is cake.
     
  11. Dr_B

    Dr_B member

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    I've never had an LEO encounter that included any discussion about my firearm. On the few occasions when I have done ride-alongs with the local PD and Sheriff, I was unarmed. However, a friend of mine was stopped for speeding in southern Idaho and all the highway patrolman did was talk guns with him and let him go. There have been MWAG calls around town in response to people open carrying. The cops are not cool with open carrying here, but the generally seem to be cool with concealed carry. Many of them are "gun guys" too.
     
  12. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    It would tend towards the irresponsible for an officer to not contact someone they observed to be armed in the vicinity of some sort of disturbance or incident. Between bad/incomplete info from people who called in and then that being garbled when passing through Dispatch (despite all attempts on the part of Dispatchers) it's very common to roll up on a call thinking it's one thing and then finding out it's very different once you get there.

    That said, there's no associated requirement for the officer who contacted you to be unpleasant about it. Don't know if he thought the OP was involved, or was trying to discourage open carry in accordance with some personal beliefs, or was just having a crappy day -- not saying all of the above are legitimate reasons for an officer to be less than pleasant to a citizen, but any of those, or any number of other things, could have been involved.
     
  13. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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    We have CCW in TX and I have been stopped 1 time by DPS for speeding on a trip to Ark to see my parents. He made me get out of the SUV and we had a nice visit after he ran my DL and found out I was a Vol Sheriffs Dept Pastor.

    Sorry you got hasselled. Glad the Resturant stood up for you and are pro-gun.
     
  14. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    [Hey, here's a novel idea: Let's have a discussion of the question at hand without turning it into 'OC -vs. - CCW" thread number 1,190,847,37. -- Many thanks.]
     
  15. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    Anyway, to try to get back on topic, I've only ever been confronted by the police once in regards to open carry, and that was a few years ago. They didn't disarm me or hold me at gunpoint. They did annoy me since I wasn't breaking any laws, and in Pennsylvania, simply carrying a gun does not constitute reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime being committed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2011
  16. SharpsDressedMan

    SharpsDressedMan member

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    London, Ohio? Go to the police department and suggest that they send that officer for a refresher course at the Peace Officer's Training Academy, London, Ohio, on current Ohio law regarding LEGITIMATE concealed carry for citizens. Apparently, he didn't get that memo/information.
     
  17. klutchless

    klutchless Member

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    Just found out the leo involved is the town's chief of police and that explains why no cruizers and why he wasn't in uniform as for the attitude i beleive they called him in from home so that might have somthin to do with it.
     
  18. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    So, let me make sure I am understanding this. You were told that it was your responsibility to be careful not to incite a 911 call while you are engaging in perfectly legal activity?!? And exactly what if there was a 911 call made in regards to your perfectly legal activity? Is that your fault?

    What exactly are the police going to do to you if they receive a 911 call regarding your perfectly legal activity?
     
  19. klutchless

    klutchless Member

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    Couldn't agree more general geoff no one robs a store with a sherriff standing at the counter. I think someone might have been dumb enough to try it hehe.
     
  20. klutchless

    klutchless Member

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    In response to Navt Lt I was informed I can be charged for creating a public panic for my oc
     
  21. Dean1818

    Dean1818 Member

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    I was pulled over at night on the way back from Colorado to Texas (In west Texas)

    I was speeding a bit and changed lanes without a signal


    I was very professional and polite, and showed my CCW permit along with my DL. I also kept both hands on the wheel when he walked up.

    The patrolman was equally nice and showed almost no interest nor did he even ask about the CCW weapon.

    I told him I would be more careful in the future and he let me off with a warning

    My thoughts are that WE need to approach this type of situation in a positive light as much as possible and to not try to "stir" the pot.... or provoke an incident. I truly believe that if you are looking for a fight..... you will get it.

    If we do get hasseled, we do need to report the cop. (the next day)

    I think that we should remember that the cops sometimes (many times) deal with Jerks all day...... we dont need to be one as well.

    I sure as heck am not seeking to get into a heated arguement with a cop in the middle of the night......... My lawyer can be a jerk better than me in a courtroom if neccessary

    I sometimes see an attitude out of some folks that is confrontational with our LEOs.......They are people just like us......... We have bad days and good days.... just like them.


    Always best to not get angry......
     
  22. Hypnogator

    Hypnogator Member

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    You probably can be. And until some people are, and the arresting officers/departments get their heads handed to them in civil court as a 1983 violation, that can be used to "discourage" open carry.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

    Oh, I don't know. They just had a news report about a bank robber that handed the teller a note saying he had a bomb in a bag, then handed the teller a check and showed the teller two forms of ID so she would be sure to cash the check! :what::eek::D:D:D
     
  23. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    You were lied to.

    Well, actually, I suppose there is a difference between being charged and convicted.... the state law in Washington is:

    RCW 9.41.270:

    Notice a few things about the statute. First is the word "warrants". The statute does NOT say causes. It says "warrants". The Washington Supreme Court has ruled that the mere carrying of a firearm in a manner not prohibited by state law does not warrant alarm. Alarm is not warranted unless the gun is pointed at someone, or other behavior besides carrying the firearm warrants alarm.

    Also, ALL of the elements of .270 must be met... "in a manner" - a holstered handgun is not "in a manner" that warrants alarm; "under circumstances" - if you are in a circumstance that are a part of normal, everyday life than "under circumstances" is not met; "at a time and place" - if you are in a location where it is normal to be at for that time of day, then "at a time and place" is not met.

    The mere fact that someone DOES panic at the sight of your holstered firearm carried in a business during normal business hours does not violate RCW 9.41.270. Police (and others) who threaten you with a 9.41.270 violation just because someone calls 911 are either blowing smoke or ignorant of the law.

    See State v. Spencer:
    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=25

    and State v. Casad:
    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=9
     
  24. FC

    FC Member

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    NavyLT, you realize you are quoting Wa state law to a guy who lives in Ohio...Right?
     
  25. SharpsDressedMan

    SharpsDressedMan member

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    Prior to Ohio getting CCW permits available, as prescribed by law, Ohio was an open carry state. It still is for non-ccw permit holders. This cop seems to be badge heavy and brain-lite.
     
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