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Has the new Charles Daly HP been released yet?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Beorn, Apr 19, 2003.

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  1. Beorn

    Beorn Member

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    This looks good. A Charles Daly clone of the old Browning Hi Power. With the exception of 10-rd mags (thanks Klinton) and the writing on the slide, it looks exactly like the original.

    Any knowledge on this one folks? I'd love to have a HP for a ESP gun in IDPA...
     
  2. railroader

    railroader Member

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    Just a thought, "Charles Daly" is also known as "KBI" and KBI has imported FEG hipowers in the past. Do you think these hipowers are assembled here with FEG parts? Mark
     
  3. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    I don't think it will have the same parts as the FEG. No offense to the FEG as my experience with them is generally positive but the actual metal doesn't seem like it would hold up as long as the FNs.
     
  4. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    ETA for this pistol is 5.11.03

    Comes with Express sights as standard! SWEEETNESS!
    Jonesing for this gun big time. I want one bad. 500 bucks suggested retail.
    [​IMG]
    I gotta have it.
     
  5. Handy

    Handy Guest

    $500 for a gun that used to retail for $250.

    This is the best thing to come along since the HS2000 became the XD and went up several hundred.:uhoh:



    Anybody noticed those FM HPs CDNN is selling for $269?
     
  6. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    Based on the slide cuts I'd wager its a true clone, but I'd still bet its built by FEG of Hungary. And while it might not say FN on the slide they do make dandy IDPA/Defensive pistols.

    The FEG was up to over $250 with the old sights, I'd guess we'll see $350-400 street price on this.

    And yeah Handy when i bought mine you could still trade a pair of Levis for a car in Budapest, but times change.
     
  7. Rocko

    Rocko Member

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    Word at http://www.fnhipower.com is that these are assembled in the US out of FEG parts - supposedly this info is direct from KBI. So, basically the same pistol with a few cosmetic changes (sights, grips, etc) at a significantly higher price. Based on the suggested retail vs. street on the other guns in the Charles Daly line, they'll likely go for around $400.

    Rocko
     
  8. chaim

    chaim Member

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    Even if true that they are FEG parts, you put on a set of $50-80 sights, nicer grips, use a much nicer finish and make it in the US with possible better workmanship and you no longer have simply the same gun at a higher price. Add the "Made in the USA" label (better quality or not), better finish, better sights and nicer grips and I think it is easily worth the extra $150 it will probably cost over the basic FEG. I know I'm interested.
     
  9. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    And golly for about $150 more you can get the real thing, not some Hungarian junk,,,,

    In fact go to Guns America there are usually used Belginas there for asbout $499...

    Why get a clone then....

    WildyagetwhatyapayforAlaska
     
  10. Handy

    Handy Guest

    Dr. Rob,

    How many pairs of Levi's will you pay me for these new $200 FEGs:

    http://www.southernohiogun.com/new_hand.html

    Sure, the P9M isn't a perfect clone, but who cares? It's a quality steel gun with a nice finish that takes Hi-Power mags, shoots like a Hi-Power, feels like a Hi-Power and looks like a Hi-Power.

    The differences between the two guns aren't even economic, some parts are just shaped different.

    Daly is going to pay FEG to make an older version of a gun they currently produce, and double the price. Wow, thanks alot.


    I'm thinking of buying an HS2000 and see if the SA custom shop can melt "XD" into the grip for $200.

    If I buy some Taurus 92s and put the safety on the slide like the Beretta, will you guys pay me $500 for them?
     
  11. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    Charles Daly has something that a base FEG doesn't have.
    1. A good finish with no tool marks.
    2. Good sights right out of the box. (the best sights?)
    3. Coverage under a warranty to protect the gun...

    #3 is probably the most important. If you have a problem, you call CD, they tell you to send it in, and a month later, your gun comes back better than new. This was what made the Springfield XD such a hit over the HS2000... that and a lot better marketing... but even with marketing, if that crazy design wasn't covered by Springfield, few would have ponied up to try it.
     
  12. Handy

    Handy Guest

    All KBI imported firearms also had a warranty. It's the same company, after all.

    I'm willing to bet that nearly every new firearm is required to be warranteed by the domestic importer/manufacturer.

    Daly is offering a better warranty now. And better sights. For twice the price.


    Hopefully, this 100% price increase will help remove the cheap gun stigma from from the FEG products.:rolleyes:
     
  13. Handy

    Handy Guest

    I was just looking at the Daly website. There is no way of telling where the parts came from. They only list manufacturers for the DDA and 1911 pistols.

    This raises the question, is this an FEG gun at all? Israel also makes HP parts (DDA was Israeli). Or they could be Argentine FMs. Anyone know?


    George, how did you know there were fewer machine marks? When did you see one?


    Hey, if these things end up being perfect HPs and cost $300 or so, I'm all for them. But considering the availability of FEG guns at $200 and FM guns for $270, I advise caution before hailing this new clone as the American dream when it is still just a clone.

    And those goofy Ashley sights would be the first thing I'd change. What else fits in that dovetail?
     
  14. firestar

    firestar member

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    Not if it still says "Taurus" on it!:D
     
  15. Handy

    Handy Guest

    No Firestar,

    It will say "Handy" and "made in USA".
     
  16. railroader

    railroader Member

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    Here's something you should know about the "Charles Daly" warranty. If you or any smith does anything to your gun your warranty will voided. So if you take out the mag disconnect your warranty will be worthless. I have a DDa that has no warranty because I put more tension on the slide stop spring because the slide was locking open with rounds in the mag. It still had problems so the gun was sent to Daly and they fixed it and voided the warranty because the spring had been tweaked. They said no one can work on their guns but them. Mark
     
  17. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    No dog in this fight, but I will say one thing. Ashley sights are not "goofy". They actually work very well. They are quick, and your eye picks up the large dot really fast. Much quicker than traditional sights, dots, or night sights.
     
  18. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    I've handled several FEG HPs that did indeed have tool marks on them. The finish was pathetic and the overall gun felt like it was made from a special alloy of Zinc and Pot Metal.

    In other words, the gun felt like crap to me, and looked worse.
    Other HPs never felt like that.
     
  19. Spackler

    Spackler Member

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    You'd be hard-pressed to find any manufacturer who doesn't have the same policy.
     
  20. Handy

    Handy Guest

    George,

    What did FEG do to make the good tool steel feel like zinc?

    Also, where did you see the tool mark-less Daly HP?


    Corriea,

    The sights may work well for defense shooting, but a lot of people use the accurate HP for targets, and it is my understanding that the Ashley system gives up a fair amount of precision for speed. It just seems strange to offer a "classic" with such modern (and possibly goofy) sights.
     
  21. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    Handy, your questions are seeming to me to be like personal attacks. I was talking about the picture... :rolleyes:
     
  22. Handy

    Handy Guest

    George,

    I'm sorry you feel that way.


    I was actually asking you what quality a steel gun might have to make it feel like pot metal. The C&S people say the FEGs are made of quite decent steel, so that cheap feel must come from somewhere else, and I was asking what you think it might be.


    As far as tool marks go, I had never noticed them being particularly conspicuous on the on the PJKs I've handled, so I assumed you were speaking of internal tool marks. Hence my question about where you examined the Daly HP (and its guts).

    I hadn't realized you were saying it was externally mark free because of the picture from the brochure.
     
  23. railroader

    railroader Member

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    Spackler, you mean if you changed the sights or put a steel mainspring housing in a kimber they would void your warranty? Kimber has sent me grip busings for me to install. I also have a CZ that needed more tension on the slide stop spring. Cz's gunsmith gave me instructions on how to tweak the spring which I did on both the cz and the daly. Heck I have had parts sent to me under warranty for my HS 2000. I just think daly is being overly picky. Mark
     
  24. Spackler

    Spackler Member

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    What I mean is, if you send your Sig, Glock, Beretta, etc. to a gunsmith for a trigger job, or new sights, or grip reduction, the factory warranty is voided. Most factory warranties are written that way. I believe they do this as a CYA thing, and don't always enforce this rule, although they can and will if it suits them.

    It's the same principle as the "no reloads" thing that's in every warranty out there. They have to know that people are going to shoot reloads, but they put it in there anyway.
     
  25. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    I can't put my finger on it Handy... the FEGs just didn't feel right.
    Something about the weight... the surface finish...
    It reminded me of the Pheonix .22 but I can't explain why.
    It radiated "Cheap" vibes to me.

    As soon as a Utah dealer gets a CD HP in, I'm there.
     
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