Have a question about a survival weapon. Help please.

[DoubleTapDrew]

A .223/5.56 doesn't recoil much more than a .45acp carbine and is much more effective and accurate out to 100yds+
Olympic arms makes carbines that take glock mags if you like/own glocks. They wouldn't be my first choice for a TEOTWAWKI or SHTF situation but in my experience they aren't the junk some people make them out to be and if you are going to a glock pistol it would be nice to have interchangable mags.

 

[Snowbandit]

Fortunately for you, the most useable defense firearm in any reasonably proposed SHTF scenario is going to be the handgun. The likelihood of large numbers of civilians carrying long guns on a regular basis, thereby making targets of themselves, is pretty much absurd. Survival hunting is a different story but, even then, you're going to want to keep your shots as close as possible. There isn't much sense shooting a deer 100 yards away only to have someone else reach it before you do. A good quality revolver in .357 Magnum should do nicely for most of what you're going to need done.

 

[bcp280z]

There's several carbines that take pistol manufacturers' mags, Berretta storm, Hi point, and I believe Keltec off the top of my head, you could get m4 looking ones as well in 9,40,45. I'll try to come up with some sites for ya.

 

[Good&Fruity]

I think knowing your handgun(s) well enough with both hands, in the dark, against multiple attackers will give you more of an advantage than 3 guys with AR's they don't know how to use and have never sighted in.

 

[goon]

Guys - the OP has problems with rifles because of his range of motion, not only because of recoil.

Is this not the High Road?
I find that statement quite offensive.

No offense, but what's so offensive about that? From what I've seen based on my own experience, I'd advise someone to not buy a Kimber. I don't see that as a problem or a reason for someone to be offended.
We've all got our own tastes and experiences to share. My one really good friend who manages a gun store tells me not to buy a new Taurus because he sends way too many back for warranty repairs. He is especially not a fan of the Judge. Some of them have locked up while firing and been very difficult to open to get them unloaded so they could be packaged to be sent back for repairs. This is a guy who knows a lot about handguns and even worked for Wilson Combat at one point. If he advises I avoid a certain brand, I don't take offense. I pay just a little more attention.

 

[danprkr]

Better a good solid handgun than anything you can't reliably shoot, or a sharp stick.

 

[Darebear]

There's several carbines that take pistol manufacturers' mags, Berretta storm, Hi point, and I believe Keltec off the top of my head, you could get m4 looking ones as well in 9,40,45. I'll try to come up with some sites for ya.

I REALLY like the look of the CX4... Keltec sub2000 has a cool looking model out with a AR rail. Does anyone have experience with either? A search of Keltec sub2000 brings up mixed reviews, some saying that it's junk and broke easily others saying it's a cool little tool.

 

[Darebear]

Fortunately for you, the most useable defense firearm in any reasonably proposed SHTF scenario is going to be the handgun. The likelihood of large numbers of civilians carrying long guns on a regular basis, thereby making targets of themselves, is pretty much absurd. Survival hunting is a different story but, even then, you're going to want to keep your shots as close as possible. There isn't much sense shooting a deer 100 yards away only to have someone else reach it before you do. A good quality revolver in .357 Magnum should do nicely for most of what you're going to need done.

Sensible words spoken here. Especially about hunting a deer at 100 yards just to have someone else go pick it up. I live about 30 minutes away from my city's downtown area. Getting to a populated urban setting would not be a problem for me, so the whole hunting bit is out of my mind. Like I said, I aint Joe Hunter. I never owned a wheel gun, it would be a whole new experience for me but def a experience I would welcome. A good quality revolver? Who makes those?

Also to further clearify, Goon is right. I can handle recoil (now a 12 gauge is just gonna punish ya no matter who you are)... I am just experiencing pain when shouldering and getting a proper cheek weld on the firearm. With that said I do fear, that after shooting a heavier long gun that aggervates my injury, I will then become very sensitive to recoil.

And I APPRECIATE you guys being mature about my reference of "when the SHTF". As far as food and meds I packed myself a "3 day pack" full of meds, first aid, energy bars, water and 3 extra handgun mags. I am more concerned with Hurricane Katrina situations, the worst thing about Katrina wasn't even the Hurricane it was the raping, looting and murdering after, or terrorists attacks that devastates a area that I live in. Other situations that disrupt the law and order and allow BG's to thrive while I and other innocents wait for help. I'm not concerned with The Rapture, or Zombies... I'm scared of spiders so if those two situations ever occured I'd prob be the first one dead. Lol.

 

[Vonderek]

For real life advice about guns & living in a SHTF environment check out FerFal's blog.

 

[Patriotme]

Guys - the OP has problems with rifles because of his range of motion, not only because of recoil.



No offense, but what's so offensive about that? From what I've seen based on my own experience, I'd advise someone to not buy a Kimber. I don't see that as a problem or a reason for someone to be offended.
We've all got our own tastes and experiences to share. My one really good friend who manages a gun store tells me not to buy a new Taurus because he sends way too many back for warranty repairs. He is especially not a fan of the Judge. Some of them have locked up while firing and been very difficult to open to get them unloaded so they could be packaged to be sent back for repairs. This is a guy who knows a lot about handguns and even worked for Wilson Combat at one point. If he advises I avoid a certain brand, I don't take offense. I pay just a little more attention.

I too had a guy at the gun store say that the Taurus's were mediocre at best. I had just bought a LCR and asked him for his honest opinion of the Taurus line since our business was done. He didn't want to trash the line too badly but he was very lukewarm towards their guns. I have a friend that recently bought a 7 rnd Taurus .357, he's not a gun guy and cannot explain what's wrong with it but it sounds like it's locked up.
I have an older Taurus .357 that is probably about 15 years old and it's been a good gun and gets shot almost monthly. The one problem that I've had with it is the ejector rod sometimes (yearly) will unscrew slightly and will be too far into the shroud to allow the cylinder assembly to open. I take a pen, screw driver, etc and tighten it back up. No biggie. One day I'll have my locktite with me when this happens. It's a range toy not a home defense gun.
I've got a great Kimber and it gets shot monthly. I stopped worrying about how many rounds were through it after about 3000. It's extremely reliable and accurate (Stainless Target II in 9mm). While I've heard that Kimber quality has dropped in recent years mine is absolutely perfect. Of course Kimber sells about 75,000 handguns yearly now so the more that you sell the more complaints that you'll get.

 

[Patriotme]

For real life advice about guns & living in a SHTF environment check out FerFal's blog.

Everyone always talks about FerFal and I think that he's a great resource in regards to the kind of SHTF that his country went through.
I don't however believe that he's the absolute expert in every regard. Those that lived through the genocide in Bosnia and the run up before the fighting had different experiences. Those that live in Mozambique have other experiences. I don't think that you can judge one nation by another. Different cultures, expectations, law enforcement and preperation levels effect the situation. Look at the CA earthquake of 1989 vs what happened in New Orleans during Katrina. Heck, look at New Orleans compared to every neighboring area that was equally devastated. Compare the flooding and blizzards we've seen over the last few years to how people reacted in New Orleans.
FerFal is a great resource but I wouldn't trust his views on SHTF to match reality in the US.

 

[Patriotme]

I would love to see someone make a modern version of the LeMat. The Judge and S&W Governor comes kind of close.

 

[Sgt_R]

I REALLY like the look of the CX4... Keltec sub2000 has a cool looking model out with a AR rail. Does anyone have experience with either? A search of Keltec sub2000 brings up mixed reviews, some saying that it's junk and broke easily others saying it's a cool little tool.

There's a thread on the Sub2k over in Rifle Country right now; responses seem to be overwhelmingly positive: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=505205

I'd like to pick one up some day, but it's pretty low on my bucket list.

R

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I REALLY like the look of the CX4...

I do too. Didn't like the price though. For <$300 you can get a Hi-Point 995 and get an ATI stock for it and have a CX4 clone.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'm going to go with the suggestion that a few others have mentioned. Get your shoulder fixed. It's not just firing a weapon that is affected.

As an aside, you may be able to do more than you think without surgery or drugs. Thing is, sometimes the surgeries don't fix it or even make it worse. Try fixing it on your own with exercise first.

I injured my right shoulder doing deltoid flys (went to high, too fast). I had to stop going to the gym for awhile, but later decided to work through it. Hurt like hell, but over the last couple of years, I've gotten back full range of motion with tolerable pain. Only occasionally do I strain it enough that it hurts after the fact, nothing a little Ibuprofen and a day of R&R doesn't take care of.

Try this approach first. It's amazing what your body is capable of. And find a good chiropractor (good, not just a quack who wants your money). He/she will be able to move things in ways that you can't by yourself, and it helps. In addition to hurting my shoulder, I had bad sciatica in my left leg, to the point that I couldn't sleep many nights. A few months of therapy almost completely fixed it. Still kind of a constant dull ache/burn, but it can be ignored most of the time.

If none of this works, then maybe it's time for surgery. But that should be a last resort.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Does it bother you in the prone? You don't see it much on ranges but grunts fight on their bellies.

 

[Vonderek]

Everyone always talks about FerFal and I think that he's a great resource in regards to the kind of SHTF that his country went through.
I don't however believe that he's the absolute expert in every regard. Those that lived through the genocide in Bosnia and the run up before the fighting had different experiences. Those that live in Mozambique have other experiences. I don't think that you can judge one nation by another. Different cultures, expectations, law enforcement and preperation levels effect the situation. Look at the CA earthquake of 1989 vs what happened in New Orleans during Katrina. Heck, look at New Orleans compared to every neighboring area that was equally devastated. Compare the flooding and blizzards we've seen over the last few years to how people reacted in New Orleans.
FerFal is a great resource but I wouldn't trust his views on SHTF to match reality in the US.
Patriotme is offline Report Post Quick reply to this message

I respect your opinion and agree that all cultures have differences but the two examples you mentioned are about as far from an American comparison as you could possibly cite...a Third World African culture and a genocidal tribal Eastern European culture with a history of shifting borders. Argentina is by and large a heavily Western European-influenced culture that experienced an economic collapse similar to what we may be in the early stages of. You mentioned natural disasters and hurricanes in particular. I lived through the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew (and about a half dozen others) and my family is from the north shore of Lake Pontchartrain and got hammered by Katrina so I have a little first and second hand experience about living in a post-hurricane environment of SHTF. I have no financial interest in FerFal's blog and don't know the man but there is an incredible amount of practical firsthand knowledge there germane to this thread.

 

[JN01]

In reply to what you and Sky said I am. I was referred to a chiropractor... Ugh. Last time I'll go to a chiropractor. I just recently got a PCP, not because I didn't have insurance just because I traveled alot and from 18 till now I haven't had much need for a doctor. But I def agree with you both and I am hoping my new PCP can help me. A MRI was done on my neck and showed a cyst on my spinal cord... The ortho surgeon that received the MRI said the cyst might not even be the root of the pain, also that it's too small to risk operating on.

I'm not well versed in body physology but I think it's a pinched nerve. Everytime I tell someone the symptoms they say "That sounds like a pinched nerved" and googling my symptoms brings up pinched nerve.

Couple months ago, I had similar problems, pain in my neck and shoulder blade, with tingling in my left hand. Chiropractor suggested it might be a herniated disc in the cervical vertebrae (neck). When the disc between the bones bulges out, it can put pressure on the nerves that surround the spine, causing pain other places (like down your arm)

Anti-inflammatories, massage, and 4 visits to the chiropractor fixed it for me. I have a good one, I know some of them are quacks (as are some doctors), and it is not always an appropriate treatment for every condition or every person. I also know people that have gone the surgery route and gotten screwed up worse than before they got cut on.

Anyway, hopefully you can get it fixed and shoot whatever you want.

 

[HammerheadSSN663]

I've thought long and hard about this for sometime.

If the SHTF and I gotta grab the kids and a gun and run, its the .22LR semi Rugar 10/22 with a scope, silencer, multiple mags, and loaded with the snappiest 5000 rounds of .22s I can find. (using CCI Velocitors now).

Rifle and rounds are light weight for carrying, common round the world over, excellent for small game, and decent/fair for medium game.

this whole notion of a post apocolyptic scenario is way over played IMO.

FWIW, I'm just an occasional range visitor and not a true gun guy.

And yes, I have the standard big calibers in the safe.

Just my opinion and what I've decided for myself.

 

[mortablunt]

I'd recommend a PCC like the Beretta Cx4 Storm.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I really think you need to get the nerve damaged examined by medical professionals before purchasing new firearms. In the meantime you should be fine with what you own. You are the weapon not the firearm.

How did a break job with a subpar tool cause nerve damage? How long has it been?

 

[lokpyrite]

Silly option but have you tried shouldering left handed instead of right?

 

[fragout]

My honest opinion regarding this matter?

You should look at getting your body back into good condition. firearms are not the only issues to worry about if your caught as is...after the balloon goes up. (An AR chambered in 5.56mmdoesn't produce all that much felt recoil)

In the meantime, I might suggest that you simply use whatever handgun you own as of now.

Here is another..
If your married, and/or have family that are close, why not see if they have the abilities to utilize a rifle?

This is probably what you don't want to hear, but I have been in your shoes before, and so has the wife. We both own, shoot, and prefer the M14/M1A. While we were down with shoulder issues, we used 10-22's, and M1 Carbines, as both are very light in weight, and literally easy on the shoulders....as compared to our favorite. A pistol caliber long gun would fall in here as well, but are in the same category as a 5.56mm chambered AR in terms of approx weight, and felt recoil.

Other ideas for you to consider....

1. Utilize a bipod on your rifle of choice. ( Depending on how your shoulder was injured)

2. Try shooting with your opposite hand.

3. 22 WMR chambered long guns.


Good luck, and focus on getting your shoulder back to snuff.

11B

 

[harmon rabb]

the pain is in your right shoulder -- so learn to shoot rifles left handed. problem solved.

also, the lightest recoiling "real" rifle i can think of is an ak-74 (not 47). i have a bulgarian '74 that kicks like a 22 that has been hitting the gym for a few weeks. very, very low recoil.

ar-15's also have very low recoil.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I've fought with a nagging shoulder injury for 8 or 9 months. (Shattered collarbone). One of the first things I wanted to do was get back to shooting, and it was TOUGH.

Spend your money a good physical therapist. In the long run the benefit outweighs the remote possibility that you'll be in a survival situation needing a rifle.