Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Have you ever had an ND?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by duns, Aug 6, 2011.

?

Have you ever had an ND?

Poll closed Sep 5, 2011.
  1. Yes

    79 vote(s)
    35.6%
  2. No

    143 vote(s)
    64.4%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. duns

    duns Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
    Messages:
    814
    Location:
    TX
    There has been a lot of debate recently about how many people have had an ND. Some people think that those who have had an ND form a large proportion of the shooting population. Others think that it's just a small percentage. In the interests of science(!), please use this poll to indicate whether or not you have ever had an ND.

    For clarification, NDs at the range, with your gun pointing towards the backstop, where there was no potential danger to anyone, don't count.
     
  2. jmresistance

    jmresistance Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    I cocked my Judge before I had it pointed at the target and it went off. That trigger is pretty light with the hammer back! But it was at the range and hit the ground, so I guess it doesn't count. It scared me to death, though! I can't imagine having an ND in the house. I hope it never happens. I would like to think that it should never happen if you follow the four rules, but human error is responsible for most accidents and an ND is no different. You should be able to drastically improve the odds with the four rules, but we are all human.
     
  3. klutchless

    klutchless Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2011
    Messages:
    234
    Location:
    London , Ohio
    Had a 357 go of in my jeep while driving across a field. Lesson learned load one skip one with a hammer mounted firing pin.
     
  4. Zach S

    Zach S Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2003
    Messages:
    5,515
    Location:
    Western NC/East TN
    Yep. Caught a falling pistol. Only damage was to a subwoofer box, which I still own to remind me of my stupidity.

    I disagree. If you pull the trigger when you don't mean to, it is an ND.

    A mechanical problem with the firearm, such as a slamfire, is an AD.
     
  5. MrCleanOK

    MrCleanOK Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,354
    Location:
    Alaska
    How could unintentionally sending a round down the pipe possibly not count as a negligent discharge? Where you are should have no bearing on this. Mechanical failure is the only alibi that earns an "accidental", and even some of those are preventable.
     
  6. Loosedhorse

    Loosedhorse member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,454
    Location:
    eastern Massachusetts
    Had one. No one hurt. Figured, you know, it happens. I was just due. Heck, I'm a gun guy, I handle guns a lot. You know, one in a million chance, but you do it a million times, so what do you expect? An ND is just the mark of an experienced gun guy, kinda like a badge of honor--hey, I'm in the CLUB! Camaraderie! It's cool.

    So I kept right on the same. WAY less than a million times later, I had my second ND. No injury but it DESTROYED all the rationalizations listed above. I was causing these: not random chance, not the high number of gun handling instances. It was all me. What I was doing, and what I was not doing. I WAS UNSAFE.

    I changed everything. Everything. Got some more training. I am now a certified instructor, but what has really changed are my routines...and my attitude! No NDs since, and I've been an instructor for over a decade now.

    (Just to be clear: in my first paragraph, all sentences after the second one are FALSE rationalizations! It just took me another ND to figure that out. :banghead:)
     
  7. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,701
    Location:
    Western NYS
    First was a 1911 that I was carrying in condition 2,trying to put it in that condition with oily hands - hole in floor.

    Next was checking 'indexing' of hand loads of Charter arms bulldog,hole in nightstand.

    Both were well over 30 years ago and I did learn that they can happen.

    I became LEO afterwards and am SO much safer due to lessons learned.
     
  8. duns

    duns Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
    Messages:
    814
    Location:
    TX
    My reasoning was that when you are learning to shoot, you may make mistakes such as a double tap in the direction of the paper target when you only wanted to fire once. I saw these as part of the learning process and not negligent. You are welcome to disagree and I'm not saying you are wrong. The important thing is that we should know how terms are defined. This poll will answer the question of how many people had NDs other than in the context of training with the gun pointing in a safe direction. A poll phrased the way you would like it would answer a slightly different question.
     
  9. Sky

    Sky Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,927
    Location:
    Texas
    Familiarity sometimes infringes on caution. Have not had one but every time I handle a gun, even if it is to clean or take out of a range bag, I am not paranoid but very cognizant that I can mess up or the gun being cocked and locked or supposedly empty can still do something I do not want it to. Some of my weapons stay chambered and ready to fire and some do not. I guess I am to old to remember which are which so I treat all of them as if they are ready to go off.......
     
  10. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    7,520
    Location:
    Alabama
    Yes, and with M1911's.

    I was following the advice of Bill Wilson, in his book "The Combat 45 Automatic", Bill Wilson recommends holding the trigger back as you chamber a round from a new magazine. Basically hold trigger, punch slide release. Bill Wilson claimed it would protect the sear surfaces of the trigger by engaging the disconnector.

    Well guess who got out of sequence a couple of times? Me. I punched the slide release and pulled the trigger. Whoops. Lucky I was at the range with the muzzle pointed down range. Only scared me.

    You can practice a movement many times and yet still get it wrong.

    I now just punch the slide release. Holding the trigger back will just cause problems.
     
  11. Too_Pure

    Too_Pure Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    Glendale, Arizona
    This happened to me, too. It shows the useful redundancy of the rules. While the gun was pointed downrange, and my finger was off the trigger until ready to shoot, it happened before I was ready because I didn't appreciate just how light the trigger really was. Totally freaked me out and gave me an even more healthy respect for how to handle a gun. It also convinced me that a light trigger is not the best for a defensive gun, for me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. chris in va

    chris in va Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,095
    Location:
    Louisville KY
    I handed a friend my CZ carbine and forgot the set trigger was activated. He brushed against the trigger and it fired into the sky about 3' from my head. Dumbest thing I've ever done.
     
  13. ExMachina

    ExMachina Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Messages:
    391
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    you seem to be saying that there are "safe" ND's that don't count. i don't buy this--if the gun goes BANG anytime the shooter doesn't mean it to, then it is potentially dangerous and the shooter should be humbled, not reassured that it didn't actually represent a lapse in safe handling.
     
  14. 481

    481 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,930
    As of yet, no and hopefully never.

    I've been shooting since I was 10 and whenever I pick up a firearm, my Dad's words to me each time we'd shoot always run through my mind-

    "Be mindful whenever you handle a gun 'cause they are more dangerous than the most poisonous snake and a lot less forgiving of carelessness; a moment of inattention could be your last."


    It is a simple thought, but has served me well in the 30-some plus years since then.
     
  15. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    4,084
    Location:
    Alamo City
    I have a Kel-Tec P-11 which is a DAO with no drop safety. I lightened the trigger spring and, subsequently, the firing pin spring. I have a side clip so I can slip the gun in my front pocket using the upper seam to hold it in place. I was sitting for awhile and the gun worked its way upward without me noticing. When I got up and walked about 3 feet the pistol dropped muzzle-first onto the hard tile/concrete floor and discharged making a 3 inch hole in the tile. My dog was only a couple feet away from me but neither of us were hurt, thank God. I did feel some tiny shrapnel graze past my right palm and lower arm as they shot their way to the ceiling in which they stuck. I don't know if a stock firing pin spring would have prevented the ND or not but it didn't help. I was very sleep deprived, tired, and a bit ill... but that's NO EXCUSE!!

    Other than constantly berating myself even to this day I changed two things. 1) I no longer carry a firearm while I'm tired or sleepy. 2) I no longer carry with a round in a DAO chamber unless the gun has a drop safety and/or a thumb safety.
     
  16. duns

    duns Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
    Messages:
    814
    Location:
    TX
    I don't disagree but for the purpose of this poll, please disregard inadvertent discharges when training at the range with the gun pointing in a safe direction. There is a fuzzy line between an ND and an AD and I just wanted to draw a clear line, so that we would know that the poll reflects unquestionable NDs.
     
  17. Swiftyjuan

    Swiftyjuan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Central California
    I had just loaded my 12 guage house gun and chambered a round; the gun slipped and I tried to catch it. The gun was pointed at a window that had open fields behind it, but a small 6" square pane of glass disappeared from the window, and I couldn't hear for about 20 minutes!
     
  18. BFC

    BFC Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    You should have added "Not yet" to the poll. The day I saw one my CQB instructor at Bragg have one (he was a former D-boy, nobody got hurt) I figured it could happen to any of us. So I when ask I always answer not yet.
     
  19. axxxel

    axxxel Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    236
    1)You handed someone else a loaded weapon

    2) Whoever received it didn't quite keep trigger discipline

    Bad things happen, glad you got out of there in one piece. Your story illustrates how these accidents usually require on or more rules to be broken simultaneously to cause a risky situation.

    I've broken the rules and thought to myself "I'm a lucky guy not to have had an ND now", but so far I haven't had an ND.
     
  20. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,329
    Did you shout, DO OVER?"

    Fixed it.

    "There was no one coming when I ran through the red light, so it doesn't count, Officer."
     
  21. Inebriated

    Inebriated Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,680
    Location:
    NC
    It's been covered man, let it go.


    I've not had an ND and expect not to... The safety rules are there to follow, so I follow 'em. Safety check, finger out of trigger guard, muzzle away from every one, etc.
     
  22. Carter

    Carter Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,434
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I've never had one. The first time I shot a SA revolver I lined up my sights to the target area and moved my finger to the trigger guard and accidentally fired it, but according to your definition that doesn't count.

    I always safety check my firearms before I pull the trigger. My handguns are almost always loaded so I just assume they are until I determine otherwise.

    To be honest though, when all I had was rifles I was a little lax with my gun safety. As soon as I got my ccw it all kind of clicked with me, actually having a loaded gun around 24/7. Especially keeping your finger out of the trigger guard.
     
  23. CHEVELLE427

    CHEVELLE427 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,022
    Location:
    NW FLORIDA
    my only discharge for now have been the ones where my finger was on the bang switch and was meant to do so :rolleyes:

    keep your booger hook off the bang switch and all will be / should be fine;)
     
  24. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,330
    Location:
    Central Arkansas
    My ND happened when I was a stupid teenager. It was a Ruger MK2 Target and it was in my pocket when I did not observe the rule where you keep your finger off the trigger. The only damage was a thin red line down my thigh where the bullet burned it, and of course a lot of embarrassment.
     
  25. 303tom

    303tom member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4,059
    Location:
    Missouri
    I am going to brag , because it can happen to anyone , but I have never had a ND.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page