Hawes 45 Colt Western Marshal

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TennJed

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Does anyone have any experience with the German made Hawes 45 colt single actions Western Marshall revolvers. Is it a good quality gun?

Also i think they make one in 44 mag, so does anyone know if the 45 colt is made on a larger frame like a Ruger (old model) Vaquero? Can it handle hotter loads
 
My .357 is made like a Blackhawk. It shoots well, and seems to be of excellent quality. I also have a Sauer .38 Special Trophy model 6" Target with which my receiving FFL/gunsmith was especially impressed at any price. Barring abuse and rust spots, you won't be disappointed.
 
The Sauer and Son single action revolvers are of good quality, made at a time when the German Mark was under valued, and as a result they were able to under cut the Colt's and Ruger's. The same gun today would cost much more and would not be completive on the market. But, while of good quality they are not as strong as the Ruger, wasn't meant to be, wasn't made to be. If you start throwing Ruger only loads through one you will very shortly have a piece of junk in your hands.
 
The Sauer and Son single action revolvers are of good quality, made at a time when the German Mark was under valued, and as a result they were able to under cut the Colt's and Ruger's. The same gun today would cost much more and would not be completive on the market. But, while of good quality they are not as strong as the Ruger, wasn't meant to be, wasn't made to be. If you start throwing Ruger only loads through one you will very shortly have a piece of junk in your hands.
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That would be true of a New Vaquero as well. I gather that the original Vaquero stands alone as a western style SA that can take the full range of loads in 45 Colt.

My older SA Sauer is 357 magnum and looks like a Blackhawk. I have no fear of it becoming junk.
 
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RealGun, was the Sauer Trophy their Smith & Wesson Model 14 copy? I've heard of that, but never seen one.
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I am not sure who was doing the copying, since S&W had such a short commitment to the SAO Model 14. The Sauer Trophy is double action but does fit 6" K frame holsters nicely.
 
RealGun said:
The Sauer and Son single action revolvers are of good quality, made at a time when the German Mark was under valued, and as a result they were able to under cut the Colt's and Ruger's. The same gun today would cost much more and would not be completive on the market. But, while of good quality they are not as strong as the Ruger, wasn't meant to be, wasn't made to be. If you start throwing Ruger only loads through one you will very shortly have a piece of junk in your hands.

That would be true of a New Vaquero as well. I gather that the original Vaquero stands alone as a western style SA that can take the full range of loads in 45 Colt.

My older SA Sauer is 357 magnum and looks like a Blackhawk. I have no fear of it becoming junk.
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Curious as to who the Hawes can stand up to repeated 44mags.but not hot 45 colt if they are built on the same frame
 
You asked, you got advise for some one who has both, If you reload, you will note the reload manual has special note for special heavy loads " For Ruger or rifle only". Your gun, your decision, If I had known you only wanted positive replies to fit your own perception of reality I wouldn't have bothered to answer.:)
 
I have a Sauer & Sohn Western Marshall in .357 mag that I love. The only problem I encounter is in the screw-in frame mounted firing pin assembly. If it gets in any way loose, the threaded collar snaps in two.

I'm on my third assembly at the moment; I'm gonna Loc-Tite this one tight, I reckon. Maybe this time I'll learn my lesson...
 
Ron James said:
You asked, you got advise for some one who has both, If you reload, you will note the reload manual has special note for special heavy loads " For Ruger or rifle only". Your gun, your decision, If I had known you only wanted positive replies to fit your own perception of reality I wouldn't have bothered to answer.:)
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What are you talking about. I never said anything about only wanted positive answers. I never indicated anything negative to any responses.

I am honestly curious as to how and why. The purpose of these forums are to share and learn. I am trying to learn. Why such hostility from you?
 
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Originally Posted by Ron James
The Sauer and Son single action revolvers are of good quality, made at a time when the German Mark was under valued, and as a result they were able to under cut the Colt's and Ruger's. The same gun today would cost much more and would not be completive on the market. But, while of good quality they are not as strong as the Ruger, wasn't meant to be, wasn't made to be. If you start throwing Ruger only loads through one you will very shortly have a piece of junk in your hands.
Click to expand...

Originally Posted by RealGun
That would be true of a New Vaquero as well. I gather that the original Vaquero stands alone as a western style SA that can take the full range of loads in 45 Colt.

My older SA Sauer is 357 magnum and looks like a Blackhawk. I have no fear of it becoming junk.
Click to expand...

Originally Posted by TennJed
Curious as to who the Hawes can stand up to repeated 44mags.but not hot 45 colt if they are built on the same frame
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I don't believe the western style is done in .44 Magnum. We shouldn't confuse the SAA style .45 Colt with the Ruger Blackhawk style in .357/.44 Magnum. Hawes apparently imported and sold both, along with some other double action revolvers.
 
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RealGun said:
I don't believe the western style is done in .44 Magnum. We shouldn't confuse the SAA style .45 Colt with the Ruger Blackhawk style in .357/.44 Magnum. Hawes apparently imported and sold both, along with some other double action revolvers.
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A Google search seems to indicate the Western WAS done in 44mag. Of course i am no expert, which is why i started the thread
 
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A Google search seems to indicate the Western WAS done in 44mag. Of course i am no expert, which is why i started the thread
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How about a link or two for some pics and other indications?

p.s. Nevermind, I see it. Maybe that was Sauer & Sohns knockoff of the older Vaquero, which is reputedly stronger built than the New Vaquero.

They might have one gun a fairly true copy of a Colt SAA, while another is a magnum very much like the old Vaquero. It's hard to know about stuff that old and relatively undocumented.
 
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TeenJed, You are correct, I misread your posting and I apologize for my snarly reply:eek:. This is my take on hot rodding a Hawes .45. Ruger made their reputation on how strong their guns were " over built ". I had the opportunity to talk with a Ruger engineer and he informed me that the only difference between the 44 mag and 45 Colt frames were 1/100 bigger hole in the 45 colt cylinder. Same steel, same heat treatment, same every thing. I hot rod my .45 Ruger but I never exceed the loading books. Now, did Sauer and Son go to the extra expense of building their .45 Colt to the same standards as their .44 Mag. Remember they were in a price war with both Colt and Ruger and the 44 mag runs at a much higher pressure and requires a stronger cylinder and frame than the .45 Colt . I don't know and I don't know of any way other than destructive testing to find out. Me myself and I will assume the reloading manuals know what they are printing when they print " Ruger and rifles only". The Rugers are a known entity , The Sauer is a good gun in the same strength category as the other clones of the era { excepting the Rugers } I don't know for a fact they are weaker but until someone proves other wise I will take it to church that the Sauer .45 Colt frame is not as strong as the Sauer .44 frame. I could be wrong, I'm pretty sure I've been wrong before in the past and will be wrong in the future:)
 
Ron James said:
TeenJed, You are correct, I misread your posting and I apologize for my snarly reply:eek:. This is my take on hot rodding a Hawes .45. Ruger made their reputation on how strong their guns were " over built ". I had the opportunity to talk with a Ruger engineer and he informed me that the only difference between the 44 mag and 45 Colt frames were 1/100 bigger hole in the 45 colt cylinder. Same steel, same heat treatment, same every thing. I hot rod my .45 Ruger but I never exceed the loading books. Now, did Sauer and Son go to the extra expense of building their .45 Colt to the same standards as their .44 Mag. Remember they were in a price war with both Colt and Ruger and the 44 mag runs at a much higher pressure and requires a stronger cylinder and frame than the .45 Colt . I don't know and I don't know of any way other than destructive testing to find out. Me myself and I will assume the reloading manuals know what they are printing when they print " Ruger and rifles only". The Rugers are a known entity , The Sauer is a good gun in the same strength category as the other clones of the era { excepting the Rugers } I don't know for a fact they are weaker but until someone proves other wise I will take it to church that the Sauer .45 Colt frame is not as strong as the Sauer .44 frame. I could be wrong, I'm pretty sure I've been wrong before in the past and will be wrong in the future:)
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Thanks, that makes sense. I currently have a Ruger "old" vaquero and a Redhawk in 45 colt. Less than 10% of the loads i run through them are "hot". I reload my own so i have a little bit of all flavors. I came across this Hawes Western and was considering picking it up. I doubt i would run it hard, but it would be nice to know it can eat any load i make. Kinda like the idea of all my 45 colts to be able.to shoot all my loads if i get the hankering

Thanks again
 
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