Hawken 50 cal classic Questions

[Huntolive]

Hello guys
I've hunted for over a decade with black powder normally with more modern inline 50 cal black powder guns such as CVA and Thompson Center.
For $300 I recently bought a Hawken more classic looking old school type 50 cal which I have not fired yet. Kind of bought it as a hoot, but I'm considering hunting with it.
What are your thoughts on the feasibility and practicality of hunting with the Hawken vs with a good CVA more modern type?
Also what technical advice do you have about loading this sucker as the process is a bit more complex?

 

[Ironhand54]

Your Hawkin can and should be used for hunting. I have been doing so for almost 40 years.

Loading is not that much different. You can still use pellets if it's a 50 cal. Otherwise you will need to use loose powder, not a big deal.

It will probably not shoot sabots well due to the rifling twist so you'll have to use either connicals or patched round ball. Both work well and are easy to load.

The exposed nipple is easier to use than many Inlines.

If your gun has double triggers you may well become a fan. The very light pull of the set trigger really helps in accurate shooting.

Cleanup can be more time consuming but it's not a chore, just different.

Please post a photo and some details of your new toy.

These vendors have supplies and information you can use.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Index.aspx

https://www.logcabinshop.com/catalog.php

http://www.octobercountry.com/


Enjoy
IronHand

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Shooting and hunting with a traditional muzzle loader is great fun. I prefer patch and ball with loose powder. Many old threads full of info here.

 

[Templar32nd]

I have numerous Sidelock Hawken style rifles. They're a lot more fun than the 1 in line that I Re-gifted back to the family member who Thought I'd like it. My absolute favorite one to hunt with, large game, is my TC .45 Hawken. Pre-Warning.
Have fun, and welcome to your new ADDICTION, because once you start with BP, there's no turning back.

 

[Fyrstyk]

As already mentioned in the other posts, there is no reason not to hunt with your new side lock muzzle loader. I have been hunting with percussion and flint side locks for close to 40 years now. I only hunt with patched round ball, and it has taken lots of game for me. The biggest thing will be going back to using iron sights. This may limit your shooting range depending on your eyesight. The side lock muzzle loaders can be quite accurate once their preferred load is found. You won't regret using your new gun, and I think you will come to enjoy the hunt more knowing that you are using a gun similar to our forefathers.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Your new-to-you Hawken should be every bit as "all weather" as your inline. (imho) Much of the hype about inline "superiority" or "ease of use" was/is a marketing ploy.

You should consider using a patched, round ball. Quite lethal out to 100 yards, and since you're probably using a Hawken with a metal butt plate..., a lot less trouble for your shoulder.

Loads for your Hawken should probably be from 70-90 grains of powder. Consider that the .45-70 and the .50-90 cartridges killed a lot of bison, and you're only going for deer. A .490 ball launched with powder between those amounts is just fine. Going beyond that is (imho) a silly waste of powder. It's more important to pick the most accurate load for your rifle within those powder parameters. Deer hit in the vitals don't know they are any "deader" when you use 90 grains than when you use 70.

You will need to spend some range time to get used to the rifle, and to sight it in.

LD

 

[Huntolive]

Wow, awesome advice and I m psyched already.
Yes mine is TC Hawken w 2 triggers.
What do the 2 triggers do?
Can I use 2 50 grn pellets of pyrodex like I use in my CVA and modern TC?

 

[Ironhand54]

Wow, awesome advice and I m psyched already.
Yes mine is TC Hawken w 2 triggers.
What do the 2 triggers do?
Can I use 2 50 grn pellets of pyrodex like I use in my CVA and modern TC?

Yes you can use 2 pellets, if that load is accurate. I would suggest a. 490 round ball with a 15 thousandths ox yoke or TC prelubed patch. My TC guns usually shoot that well. You could shoot a conical like the power belt or TC maxi but recoil would be heavier and the round ball will shoot flatter .

The double trigger is one of the best things about a traditional BP rifle. It is a set trigger. For fast shots you can use the front trigger as a normal trigger. If you have the time you can "set" the trigger for accuracy.

If you pull the back trigger you should hear a click. That sets the front trigger. The front trigger pull is now only onces. A hair trigger. Better trigger than any inline. Try it, you'll like it. Note: you may need to pull pretty hard on the back trigger to set it.

Enjoy
IronHand

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

I'll make a couple points that may help prevent frustration -
2 50 grn pellets of pyrodex (100grains) is not likely the be the most accurate load in the Hawken (I'd start with 80 grains).
Ignition of pellets may not be reliable with the sidelock.
Loose powder would be an improvement, and using Real Black Powder even better.

 

[guyfromohio]

I use mine all the time. Those in-lines are blasphemy! Shoot, hunt, and enjoy! Word of caution....my first time with the bead on a buck, I pulled the set trigger and accidentally brushed the trigger with my glove and “boom” she went. Once you trip it, it becomes a VERY light pull.

 

[noelf2]

I get best accuracy with 80 gains BP or equivalent, and patched round ball.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I start off with caliber size in volume of powder ie 50 grains of powder to .50 caliber. I then shoot 3 shot groups, increasing by 5 grains until I get the most accurate load. Most of my .50s like 65 to 70 grains of powder.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Forget the pellets they are just a gimmick that costs more, I don't even use them in modern front loaders.

 

[4v50 Gary]

So long as it's accurate, use it.

 

[Fyrstyk]

I agree, you should forget the pellets in this gun. They are harder to ignite, and like it was said, 100 grains may not be an accurate load in your gun. You need to decide if you are going to use a patched round ball or a conical as a projectile. I prefer the round ball with loose powder. You will have to spend some time at the range to find out what load you gun likes. If using a BP substitute, I recommend a "hot shot" or "Red Hot" nipple, cause the substitutes are harder to ignite.
As for the double triggers, like what was said, the rear trigger is pulled to set the front trigger for a light pull. When hunting with gloves, i would only use the front trigger. To adjust the front trigger, turn the screw between the two triggers all the way in till it stops, NO Further. Then back it out about a full turn and check to see if the front trigger let-off is the way you like it. If not, back out the screw alittle more until set the way you want. Then put a dab of lock tite or nail polish on the screw tread to hold it in that position. They sometimes work their way loose. Oh and by the way. You can test the triggers without pulling the hammer back. In fact, you need to have the hammer fully down, not on half cock. With the hammer fully down, you can set the rear trigger and trip the front trigger to test your setting and it will not harm the gun. BE SURE THE HAMMER IS FULLY DOWN, IF NOT YOU COULD BREAK THE LOCK.

 

[Huntolive]

Wow, excellent help. THR is always the best crew!

So what is the process to load with "real" black powder?
My plan is to use the 490 round balls with TC prelube patches and start with 70 grains of powder I guess.
I've hunted for over a decade with in lines with a hundred grains of pyrodex which is usually two pellets and mostly use power belt 250 or 290 grain what I guess you guys would call conicals, but with that metal buttplate on this Hawking if you say that makes more recoil I'm happy to switch to round balls
Also is there a common easy way to pad make or buy a pad for the butt plate of the stock?

 

[arcticap]

Also is there a common easy way to pad make or buy a pad for the butt plate of the stock?

There are several makers of slip on rubber recoil butt pads that come in small, medium and large.
Pachmayr and Butler Creek are a couple companies making less expensive ones. --->>> https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/parts-and-accessories/recoil-pads/slip-on/

The dimensions of each size slip on pads should be available if you're able to visit the manufacturers websites.
Or some vendors list the dimensions [but not Cheaper Than Dirt].
They do stretch.
What's nice about them is that they're easily removable.
Some can be found at local retailers, such as big box sporting goods stores or gun shops.
I've also used a lace up leather pad that contains some rubber on the inside of the butt end.

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks
So will you the .490 balls with 80 grains of black powder put down a buck as well as a 295 grain Power belt from an inline with 100 grains of pyrodex?
I knock the snot out of big whitetail s with my CVA inlines with the power belt s and 2 50 grain pyrodex pellets with clean decisive kills

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Thanks
So will you the .490 balls with 80 grains of black powder put down a buck as well as a 295 grain Power belt from an inline with 100 grains of pyrodex?

They will if you put them in the right place.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Wow, excellent help. THR is always the best crew!

So what is the process to load with "real" black powder?...

The easiest thing to do is get yourself an adjustable black powder measure.
Alternatively, if you have an accurate scale (small digital ones are cheap these days) you can weigh your charges. Then, once you decide on a load you can make up a volumetric measure for quick access.

 

[guyfromohio]

The easiest thing to do is get yourself an adjustable black powder measure.
Alternatively, if you have an accurate scale (small digital ones are cheap these days) you can weigh your charges. Then, once you decide on a load you can make up a volumetric measure for quick access.

They also make small plastic cartridges that you can keep pre-measured powder charges for quicker reloads. I use conical bullets and not round balls, but they all work.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So will you the .490 balls with 80 grains of black powder put down a buck as well as a 295 grain Power belt from an inline with 100 grains of pyrodex?

Yes, expect a broadside shot to pass through the animal, taking out both lungs. Expect a shoulder shot when the animal is quartering toward you to drop the animal where it stands.

Here is a source for the TC Hawken Manual, it costs money to join the site, however. https://www.scribd.com/document/334480330/Hawken-Manual I can't seem to get the old online pages where the Hawken manual was free to open, and it looks like TC is having a problem with their site, or they simply don't "support" the old manuals any longer....

Here is a quick explanation of the trigger system. You can adjust the front trigger pull when the system is "set". You may find that you like the trigger a bit heavier when you're wearing gloves in cold weather, vs. an earlier hunt in warmer temperatures:



LD

 

[Huntolive]

Thanks for the excellent information especially from loyalist Dave which particularly inspired me to get out there for black powder with the Hawken!
yeah I really need to get more info on the reloading process I'm used to just dropping into pellets of pyrodex and not worry about measuring anyting. I don't currently reload but have many friends that do and I'm seriously considering getting into reloading and I do own a decent scale.
I like the idea of having pre-measured powder loads that I can do quick reload swith
but could still use some more advice on exactly what type or brand of black powder to get etc

 

[frontiergander]

My hawken is just as accurate as the plastic stuff they sell these days.



Taking the same rifle out on the 14th for a nice CO muzzleloader buck hunt. Along with my dad and brother. Both will be carrying hawken rifles.

 

[Fyrstyk]

Thanks for the excellent information especially from loyalist Dave which particularly inspired me to get out there for black powder with the Hawken!
yeah I really need to get more info on the reloading process I'm used to just dropping into pellets of pyrodex and not worry about measuring anyting. I don't currently reload but have many friends that do and I'm seriously considering getting into reloading and I do own a decent scale.
I like the idea of having pre-measured powder loads that I can do quick reload swith
but could still use some more advice on exactly what type or brand of black powder to get etc

For most of the shooting with patched round ball in a 50 caliber, 3f black powder will serve you well. Start off with about 60 grains to see how your gun shoots, then work your way up in 10 grain increments till you get good groups at your preferred maximum range. For hunting, most people find 80-90 grains works well with good ballistics and grouping. If using a black powder substitute, you can use the same measure for Pyrodex, but if using 777, you might want to cut back about 15% cause the stuff is some what hotter.