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HD Shotgun vs AR

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Rivenoak, Oct 25, 2019.

  1. JeffG

    JeffG Member

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    My alma mater firearm since 1973 (USMC) has been the AR/M16/M4 with different furniture. In the dark, in a hurry, with no prep, I am ready to go in 0.0 seconds. I am armed if I am awake and dressed with a handgun, but their are limitations. I think familiarity, and availability are the keys. Choose a platform and train.
     
  2. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    Agree.

    Back wehn I kept a shotgun for HD it was a Benelli M1S90 with the pistol grip full stock similar to an AR15. That stock enables a lot of one handed manipulations that are more difficult with a regular stocked shotgun.

    I took an injured shooters class last year. A lot of one handed manipulations and shooting with handgun/carbine. Household distances a one handed shot with a carbine really isn't a big deal. Like anything it's another thing to train and practice. Another advantage for the AR15 is the relatively light weight when compared to a full up shotgun.

    V-Line Long Gun Vault, pleanty of room for the gun, extra ammo etc. Mechanical simplex push button lock. I have 3 of them; nightstand, CCW and long gun, all set for the same combo

    Before:

    oc6p03Ch.jpg

    and after:

    k0qDWGJh.jpg
     
  3. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I currently have an M4gery under my side of the bed, and an M-1 carbine under my wife's side of the bed, bot cruiser ready. But thinking hard about an Armscor VR80 shotgun, probably running #4 buck.
     
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  4. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    No children.

    G17 is GTG under the pillow and 12g is cruiser ready in the closet. EDC G26 is also on the dresser GTG.

    As I mentioned before MY AR is for SHTF situations so its kept not loaded but with mags at the ready.
     
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  5. George P

    George P Member

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    Ever fire either indoors in the dark without eyes and ears? The AR will disorient you and deafen you absolutely, the shotgun most likely
     
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  6. entropy

    entropy Member

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    An M16A1, I have. Loud, and hard on the eyes.
    Like many of you, I have plenty of familiarity with the AR platform. And like Armored Farmer, I have plenty of familiarity with the 870.
    As to the original question, I have both; an AR (pistol) and an Ithaca 37 12 ga, 18" cyl. . I keep the Ithaca 37 on HD duty.
    I live in a small town, probably will not have to go out in the yard to shoot coyotes, (though they have ventured into town...) Break-in attempts would most likely be kids. I do have a .45 pistol sitting right next to the shotgun, so I do believe I'm covered for anything short of <four letters I will not use here> . Were I out in the country more, My AR pistol would definitely be first choice.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019
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  7. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    Ok. What firearm won't?
     
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  8. tactikel

    tactikel Member

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    AR ! Packs 30 rounds vs 8. Is lighter, less recoil, can engage targets from contact to 400 yards, is easily maintained, and can be readily customised.
     
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  9. rdnktrkr

    rdnktrkr Member

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    1st would be a Smith SD40VE with 7mags, then 12ga behind the headboard or AR above the closet door or behind a wall mounted mirror. I just changed out to include the ARs after reading recent posts about home breakins, I've always had 12ga but wanted the extra rnds and easier reloading.
    I've never shot indoors but it would likely be deafening, so now I'm thinking electronic earmuffs next to the firearms would be a good addition.
     
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  10. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart Member

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    The 20ga with 18" barrel is my choice. And fun to shoot! Standard stock, Pistol grip or tactical grip. Like them all. If I lived in a Rural area like Farmer, most likely would get a AR. His environment is very different from mine.
     
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  11. Ironicaintit

    Ironicaintit Member

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    45 acp isnt all that rough on the ears, even indoors.

    My go to is an FNP45. My wifes' is a Mauser HSC in 380. In the event that she has to "hole up" in the bedroom, there's a Winchester mdl 12, 16 ga that she handles pretty well.
     
  12. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    Either is fine by me, though I think that if a person is platform-agnostic and hasn't extensively trained with one or the other then the AR has a couple of good advantages.

    When I lived miles from my nearest neighbor and had to account for bear and moose, I kept the 870 handy. Now that I don't live in an area where that's a concern, it's an AR pistol. The advantage offered to me by the shotgun as a rural dweller was power. Not that I plan on needing 30 rounds, but with a fighting shotgun if you aren't firing it, you're reloading it. The advantages of the AR are 400% more ammunition and simple one-handed use if needed.
     
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  13. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    Yep, like you suggest we keep them in the safe during the day and then make a swap in the evening of hand gun for long gun.

    No kids, but part of my mine and the wife's philosophy for gun ownership includes securing any guns that aren't on us or in arm's reach.
     
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  14. George P

    George P Member

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    A shotgun has about 1/4 the pressure and half the velocity; to me the report isn't as sharp or as painful a crack. Seems similar, IMO to a 32ACP versus a 357
     
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  15. JeffG

    JeffG Member

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    My AR is kept suppressed.
     
  16. boom boom
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    boom boom Contributing Member

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    I've fired both and am pretty acquainted with both shotguns and AR's. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. In my case, the balance pertaining to myself has tilted toward the AR. One of the major problems when you live in a built up area is that you cannot just go out and fire away but you have to go to indoor ranges. Due to idiocies of past customers, almost all ranges around here will not permit you to fire shotguns with shot or slugs. For that reason, I can rarely practice racking a shotgun and in the press of a situation might short stroke the thing. Shotgun jams are not quickly fixed nor are the methods to practice particularly easy to practice on an indoor range.
     
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  17. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    The shotgun has massive recoil, and very limited ammunition capacity. They are much heavier, more awkward to use, and harder to mount a light to. True they can be devastating at close range, but they just have too many limitations for me. Have one... rarely use it.

    My handgun is the FIRST thing I'd grab. However, this is only because of it's small size. (Same reason I carry it every day.) It sits on my night stand, so I can grab it while I'm still in bed if need be...

    Once I'm sitting up, I have an SBR (11.3" .300 blackout AR) right there in the corner to grab. This is actually my home defense gun. The AR has more ammo (30 rounds) of a more potent caliber. (110 gr VorTx .300 Blackout) It still mounts a light, and is small enough to easily move around with inside the house. It is much more stable with good solid two hand operation, and a third, and fourth points of contact. (my shoulder, and cheek) It has an Aimpoint that is ALWAYS on, and back up sights with tritium inserts. I also have a lifetime of training, and experience (28 years in the U. S. Army) with the AR platform that make me much better with this weapon system, than I am with my handgun.
    Now, I live in a small town, but even if I lived in a large population center.. in fact especially if I lived in a large population center, (higher crime rates) I would make the same choice.

    I (personally) will never used overpenetration as a factor in choosing a defensive weapon. It's a non-factor in my book. If my life, and/or the lives of my loved ones are in danger, my one, and only concern is to stop the threat... now. To do that, I want the most effective weapon I can get. To all those who would choose an AR, I would say not to use a pistol caliber, or if a .300 Blackout, not to use subsonic rounds. You want a rifle round. One that will be devastating to the target.

    Small caliber rounds moving fast will break up in most cases when passing through barriers, so minimal risk to others, though not optimal, is preferable to not stopping the threat to me, and mine. The velocity when they hit the targets makes all the difference in the world though. Keep in mind that the more capable firearm (and the more capable you are with it) the less rounds you will need to fire to stop any threat. This, combined with the proper selection of ammo for it will reduce the danger downrange, and help those you mean to protect.


    I'll always pick a rifle over a shotgun, or handgun as my primary defensive gun, given the chance to.
     
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  18. George P

    George P Member

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    You really feel that after your hi capacity handgun you'll need a 30 round AR? Where do you live that you envision such an invasion of the Walking dead?
     
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  19. TikkaShooter

    TikkaShooter Member

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    [QUOTE="Rivenoak, post: 11271045, member: 258847"Trying to decide what's best in an approx 1500 sq ft home that's in a highly populated area.[/QUOTE]

    Although it appears too many missed it; in a highly populated area is a rear game changer.
     
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  20. boom boom
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    boom boom Contributing Member

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    Unfortunately, it is becoming a more common outcome where crews of 3 or 4 or sometimes even more are involved in home invasions where the criminals know that there is probably someone at home. Often juveniles run in gangs and there is courage in numbers. Elderly people are also targeted much more than their percentage of the population suggests if attacks were random.

    Most people shoot long arms better than handguns and these have more put down power and thus the quicker the encounter is over, the more likely that you might prevail against multiple opponents. A shotgun has great putdown but recovery time between firings is much longer than that of a low recoiling rifle which could make all the difference with multiple opponents.

    Some useful summaries of home invasion statistics,
    https://www.creditdonkey.com/home-invasion-statistics.html
    https://brandongaille.com/24-surprising-home-invasion-robbery-statistics/

    A bit old but some good information here from the bjs.gov (USDOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics)
    https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf
     
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  21. George P

    George P Member

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    Sorry to hear your area is subjected to that
     
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  22. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    You do not understand.... I would grab the handgun first only if time dictates due to how close it is.

    The rifle is "in lieu of" NOT "in addition to", the handgun.

    The rifle is always gonna be the first choice... unless something causes it not to be. This is simply because it it the most stable, most accurate, weapon, that also happens to fire the most effective round, and carries on it the most available rounds due to its higher capacity magazine. It also has low recoil that allow for very fast follow up shots (if need be) on the same target, or quick transition to secondary targets.

    Nothing says I will need 30 rounds to deal with a home invader. However, nothing says there would be only one home invader, or that they would go down easy, or that I would hit my target every time no matter how much I train. Having been deployed to war 3 times, I'm of the "you can never have too much ammo" mindset.

    Just yesterday, a guy was hit 26 times in Philly, and walked 2 miles to the hospital...

    https://6abc.com/man-shot-after-nightclub-fight-walks-to-closed-hahnemann-for-help/5648720/
     
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  23. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

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    Pretty much every metro area has gang activity and often the gangs go afield from their home turf to other areas that are considered "safe" to pillage. Same reason that Willie Sutton said when robbing banks, that is where the money is.
     
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  24. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    Ever put down a varmint, at close range, with an AR? Because once the cops are done, get out the bucket, sponge, and cleanser. Your night ain't over, yet. Between the noise and the mess, I'd rather take my chances with the pistol.
     
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  25. Meeks36

    Meeks36 Member

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    590 stays beside my bed cruiser ready with #4 buck. AR is in safe cruiser ready. Also keep a 38 in night stand. Pls I can of pepper spray.
     
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