Sebastian the Ibis
Member
AR, because I can put a can on the end and not blow out my eardrums. That being said, the one time I responded to a bump in the night I grabbed a glock — because I was more familiar w one.
HD Shotgun vs AR
- Thread starter Rivenoak
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- ar 15 home defense shotgun
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AR, because I can put a can on the end and not blow out my eardrums. That being said, the one time I responded to a bump in the night I grabbed a glock — because I was more familiar w one.
Interesting. Never seen those before. I have some 15yo 100g 223 projectiles that are very interesting. They work fantastic. But I can’t get anymore so I’ve been saving them. I’ll have to try those.
Here is a recent review:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019570122/
QUOTE: We shoot almost 100% suppressed amongst all of our weapons besides 50 BMG. Before I recommend anything to any of my team I have to thoroughly vet it. So, I took 3 rifles that had varying barrel length, buffer systems and twist rates: 20" 1:7 twist, A2 standard buffer system. (SilencerCo Omega suppressed) 18" 1:7 twist, rifle gas (SPR) with Vltor A5H4 buffer system. (SilencerCo Omega suppressed) 14" 1:9 twist, carbine gas, carbine buffer system. (YHM Phantom 30 cal suppressed) All 3 setups chambered, functioned reliably, and locked open on empty, suppressed and unsuppressed! I have a 16x6x6 mold for ballistics gel, so I made 2 blocks and headed out for testing. These rounds yaw HARD and tumble violently on impact making them very hard to catch even in a mold the size I use. Consequently I was only able to capture 1 projectile out of 6! As expected yaw was much more violent with shorter barrel length and twist rates. We saw an average of 1 revolution per gel block with about 3 inch wide permanent wound channel max. They do tend to break the sound barrier or right up against the transonic region occasionaly when you go 18" or more. With the longer barrels we were able to hit 16" gongs at 200 yards reliably. Out of the 20" 1:7 we shot through a 25 yard dual ply cardboard target, into a 100 yard target with only slightly tear dropped holes in the 100 yard cardboard showing substantial stability for such a heavy and long projectile. With the 14" 1:9 barrel we experienced keyhole (battle ships) at 25 yards but still got secondary impacts at 100! This is definitely a good choice for entry teams or home defense where subsonic/suppressed is needed. If you are not running suppressed than it goes without saying that there is no point in running subsonic.
Buds has them for 45 cents per round.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/713086807/atomic+ammo+223+remington+112gr
M
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019570122/
QUOTE: We shoot almost 100% suppressed amongst all of our weapons besides 50 BMG. Before I recommend anything to any of my team I have to thoroughly vet it. So, I took 3 rifles that had varying barrel length, buffer systems and twist rates: 20" 1:7 twist, A2 standard buffer system. (SilencerCo Omega suppressed) 18" 1:7 twist, rifle gas (SPR) with Vltor A5H4 buffer system. (SilencerCo Omega suppressed) 14" 1:9 twist, carbine gas, carbine buffer system. (YHM Phantom 30 cal suppressed) All 3 setups chambered, functioned reliably, and locked open on empty, suppressed and unsuppressed! I have a 16x6x6 mold for ballistics gel, so I made 2 blocks and headed out for testing. These rounds yaw HARD and tumble violently on impact making them very hard to catch even in a mold the size I use. Consequently I was only able to capture 1 projectile out of 6! As expected yaw was much more violent with shorter barrel length and twist rates. We saw an average of 1 revolution per gel block with about 3 inch wide permanent wound channel max. They do tend to break the sound barrier or right up against the transonic region occasionaly when you go 18" or more. With the longer barrels we were able to hit 16" gongs at 200 yards reliably. Out of the 20" 1:7 we shot through a 25 yard dual ply cardboard target, into a 100 yard target with only slightly tear dropped holes in the 100 yard cardboard showing substantial stability for such a heavy and long projectile. With the 14" 1:9 barrel we experienced keyhole (battle ships) at 25 yards but still got secondary impacts at 100! This is definitely a good choice for entry teams or home defense where subsonic/suppressed is needed. If you are not running suppressed than it goes without saying that there is no point in running subsonic.
Buds has them for 45 cents per round.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/713086807/atomic+ammo+223+remington+112gr
M
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LaneP
Member
For me there's no question...a 12 gauge pump with 00 buck.
Smoke
Member
I'm just a gauge guy. In almost any situation, I would prefer a shotgun to an AR (or any other rifle variant).
Quick grab is always to the handgun. That is the exploratory weapon, and the means to fight back to the gauge.
Quick grab is always to the handgun. That is the exploratory weapon, and the means to fight back to the gauge.
I prefer a Benelli M2, but that does not mean it is “best” for any other person. One reason that a Benelli auto-loading shotgun is my choice, is because I worked 34 years for a PD that specified which shotguns we could use, on or off the clock, to defend ourselves or other persons. One thing that all of these few shotguns had in common was a cross-bolt safety. I became VERY accustomed to this safety system.
I prefer an autoloader, as it is more reliable than a pump gun, when the human user is factored into the equation. For many years, I never short-stroked a Remington 870, until, once upon a time, I did. After that, it happened a few more times. A right arm, not aging particularly well, may have been a reason. A shorter stock was a “cure,” prescribed by an instructor, and, it seemed to work, but sometimes, the short stock did not mount cleanly, including during one felony vehicle stop, with an uncooperative armed suspect. So, I bought a Benelli M2, which, along with the M1 Super 90, were the only autoloaders on the list of approved shotguns.
Actually, I had briefly used an M1 Super 90, in the Nineties, but that stock design had resulted in brutal recoil. The newer Comfort Tech stock is wonderful.
I did not grow up with the AR15. I grew up among veterans of the Korean and Vietnam Wars, who had a negative opinion of the M16. Not until 2002 did I finally acquire, and have a favorable experience with, an AR15, specifically a pre-ban configuration Colt AR15 Govt Carbine, acquired with PD letterhead, for official purposes, during the AWB. So, the shotgun had a two-decade head start, in familiarity. Well, my AR was 100 per cent reliable, so I could trust it to feed and eject. That part was good.
Then, there is the AR15 safety/selector lever, which is on semi when the “dingus is down.“ I had learned to use the safety lever of a Third-Generation S&W auto pistol, while remembering Col. Jeff Cooper’s “Don’t get caught with your Dingus down*.” That meant being sure the safety lever was pointed straight at the target, or opponent, when ready to fire. Well, then, into my life comes the AR15, which is ready to fire, when the dingus is down. That caused some amount of cognitive dissonance. Then, my eyesight starting going, which meant that the front sight started growing hair and fuzz. PD rules forbade optical sights. I was working straight nights, anyway, when fights happen really close, which meant the shotgun was usually the better long gun. So, I sold my AR to an officer with younger eyes.
I was a participant in my employer’s patrol carbine program for about two years, if I remember correctly. Because I had sold my AR to a fellow officer, familiarity faded.
Obviously, the reasons I never grew to favor the AR15 are unique to me, and have little or no applicability to many of today’s shooters.
I went through serious malfunction clearance drills, during my LE training. I am familiar with the 870 and Benelli M1/M2 shotguns, and very comfortable with the Benelli M2. Select-loading the Benellis, for a special situation, is a smooth operation.
I am not trying to convince or convert anyone, to my choice. Really, my long post is conceptual; think about all of this, but, do not over-think.
I later re-added the AR15, for hobbyist/recreational/patriotic purposes. (Yes, patriotic, as any law-abiding, able-bodied person should have a working knowledge of the fighting rifle of one’s nation.)
*I did not attend Gunsite, but definitely absorbed quite a bit of Jeff Cooper’s writing.
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Phaedrus/69
Member
There's not much navigating in my new place. I moved for work and am in an apartment presently; the way it's laid out there are a minimum of corners and angles. There's also just one plausible point of entry to defend (with a pretty good backstop beyond).
Space Ghost
Member
That's just a matter of training, and practice.
By the way, it take a lot more training, and practice to be as good (accurate) with a handgun, as you could be with a rifle... or shotgun.
BlueHeelerFl
Member
That's a big positive for the compactness of my CX4.
When and why do you envision yourself "navigating around corners" in your house?
Corpral_Agarn
Member
A good way to walk into the kill zone with a ten-ring on your chest....
Corpral_Agarn
Member
I am not advocating clearing a house by yourself. My post had nothing to do with that.
I feel the statement about mobility/maneuverability being valid stands.
If you want to challenge the importance of mobility and maneuverability, have at it, but that's all my comment was about.
The front and back doors are between me and where the children sleep.
Somebody beating on the front door at 3 am.
The sound of glass breaking at the other end of the house at 3 am.
I am probably going to investigate rather than let an intruder break in and kill my children while I am hunkered in the master bedroom.
It would be nice just to be able to hunker down but I am not sure that is always realistic when there is a bump in the night.
I am not talking about house clearing. I do think mobility is important.
Shat is it that makes you think htat you would end up alive?
Think long and hard about plans to ensure the safey of others.
An intruder can be expected to shoot at the first noise or sight--at you or yours. You cannot. You cannot risk shooting family members.
That gives the intruder a very considerable advantage.
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Space Ghost
Member
Advantage or not... a parent DOES NOT EVER sit idle when a child may be in danger pal.
You go rescue your kids... or die trying. Maybe you take the dirtbag out with you...
You know your way around the house, the dirtbag doesn't.
You know where the corners are, what's beyond them, where the furniture is, where the kids' rooms are, the light switches are, the stairs... Hopefully you have strategically placed mirrors.... you've gone over the home invasion plan with family members old enough to understand...
Only advantage the dirtbag had was in picking the time of the assault.
You go rescue your kids... or die trying. Maybe you take the dirtbag out with you...
You know your way around the house, the dirtbag doesn't.
You know where the corners are, what's beyond them, where the furniture is, where the kids' rooms are, the light switches are, the stairs... Hopefully you have strategically placed mirrors.... you've gone over the home invasion plan with family members old enough to understand...
Only advantage the dirtbag had was in picking the time of the assault.
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That's one plan.
Space Ghost
Member
Or you hunker down because you're afraid of the bad guy, and live to bury your child... only to off yourself in guilt years later.
Many people have so asserted here. Those ideas have not proved successful in shoot-house FoF scenarios.
Mirrors work both ways. Not for me.
Great idea.
You are limiting yourself to bad choices.
More likely outcomes of heading out to "investigate" are (1) get shot on sight or sound, or (2) shoot an innocent.
Neither idea appeals to me, and neither saves the child.
There are better ways than walking into a kill zone with a ten ring on your chest.
Not really. He's a killer, who does not care whom he kills.
Not too much of this applies, but some of it should tell you a lot.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0935878009/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_mUshEbEHE9KQJ
jmorris
Member
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- Sep 30, 2005
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If one spends much time thinking about what to do inside the home, the obvious pops into mind, how about I have more time before things happen inside?
Even when we lived in the city, I had IR motion sensors tied into the 2nd tone on our door bell (most have two). Kind of odd to see how many people jump as you open the door as they reach out for the door bell, pizza guy, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.
Use the same now for coyotes around the chicken coop and now I know if anything moves within a 100 yards of the house.
After so many years having advanced knowledge outside the home, it seems silly to wait until there is someone already inside.
Even when we lived in the city, I had IR motion sensors tied into the 2nd tone on our door bell (most have two). Kind of odd to see how many people jump as you open the door as they reach out for the door bell, pizza guy, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.
Use the same now for coyotes around the chicken coop and now I know if anything moves within a 100 yards of the house.
After so many years having advanced knowledge outside the home, it seems silly to wait until there is someone already inside.
How does your dying defend them?
I t would seem to appear that you haven't thought it through very wall..
Bingo.
And it would be a very good idea to equip oneself with the capability to see what is going on in the house without sticking one's head out blindly.
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